764
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New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 6:27 am

I have heard that AA is apparently looking into starting new transatlantic services in spring. After the planned Alliance between AA and BA has been cancelled due to regulatory problems (slots at LHR etc), AA obviously wants to increase both their route network and frequencies on existing routes ex ORD. With the introduction of More Room Throughout Coach on the entire international fleet in 2003, they think they can win customers who currently fly on other carriers. Apparently AA is in negotiations with five European airports. I couldn't find out exactly which ones. Does anybody have a clue?
 
padcrasher
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 6:38 am

"With the introduction of More Room Throughout Coach on the entire international fleet in 2003, they think they can win customers who currently fly on other carriers. "

MRTC has done nothing for them so far, why would they think this?

The problems at AA are serious, they need to look much more at the cost side rather than attempting to start what it most likely a money losing venture.
 
MAH4546
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 6:44 am

Actually, with the introduction of two-class 767-300ERs, AA is opening up a whole new world of profit potenital in Europe, as well as deep South America. Previously AA had to limit itself with trans-Atlantic crossings because 3-class service is hard to fill everywhere, which is one reason AA has cut back so much. When the conversion is complete, the only cities that will see 3-Class service are LHR, LGW (except STL), FRA (DFW only), CDG (JFK only), GRU, and EZE. GIG, SCL, and MAD also may see three-class 777s.

With more tourist class and business class seats to fill, with no need to wormy about first-class, they may look at opening up new European routes. O'Hare-Athens and Miami-Barcelona are two perfect examples of routes that could happen. Making MIA-CNF/MVD/ASU non-stop instead of via GRU/EZE is also a possibility. So is reopening BHX and ARN, and new possible markets such as MIA-LIS and MIA-FRA.

Nothing is going to happen overnight and spring is way too early, but the 2-class 763s do open the door for a whole new world of trans-Atlantic services from MIA and ORD.
a.
 
HUYfan
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 6:54 am

its about time AA came to Amsterdam, it must be the busiest european airport they dont serve??

a DFW daily 763 would be fab  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

regards

mike
 
padcrasher
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 7:10 am

Maybe you're right, Spain is an option with IB's help.

A two class config does have the drawback of AA not being to attract full paying C class passengers with free upgrades to F. Which they do all the time. This will put them on a level playing field with other 2 class airlines.
 
blink182
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 7:51 am

A daily 763 to Amsterdam would be very nice  Smile. Speaking of Amsterdam, I heard that AA planned to start ORD-AMS a few years ago, but it never got off the ground.

Before everybody starts celebrating, I don't think American is going to start any real exotic routes, I think for the most part it will fly to more partners' hubs rather than go single handedly with the exception being Amsterdam and possibly Stockholm.

I think Helsinki, Dublin, Barcelona, Amsterdam, and Moscow are in the cards.

blink
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dc10hound
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 7:58 am

MRTC has done nothing for them so far, why would they think this?

How do you know it's not working? Things might be worse if they did not have MRTC.

"Eagles soar. But weasels never get sucked into jet intakes.."
 
Guest

RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:40 am

I've chosen them thrice now to do SFO/OAK-JFK over UA and JB in part because of MRTC...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 9:22 am

ORD-AMS and ORD-Moscow were announced but never actually started back in 1999. I believe ORD-Moscow was to be flown with a 777 but not sure.
 
747firstclass
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:11 am

Some how I think this all a ploy to force BA and the UK to agree to openskies.Especially coming days after the US was told there would be another delay before more talks between the US and UK could take place.
A long time ago, I read where AA, when Crandall was running the airline, was looking at BRU. As BRU and AMS are close to LHR, they could really hurt BA at LHR. I think HEL is a definite possibility along with ZRH and MAD. Dont know why I think that now, but I would rate some expansion at BRU as near the top of the list.
 
747firstclass
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:13 am

I didnt make myself clear. I meant possibly BRU as a mini hub. A few flights a day connecting to the USA.
 
trickijedi
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:35 am

Leaving the European market for a quick second, I certainly hope AA opens the ORD-HKG route soon. Maybe even codeshare with CX. Anything to give UAL competition on that route.
Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
 
padcrasher
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 12:00 pm

How do I know MRTC has not worked?

Because an American exec interviewed in the Dallas Morning News said they had not seen any benefit. And AA has not seen it's yield hold up against the rest of the industry. You would think that a preference for AA might show up in yield, or LF, or gain in market share in DFW or ORD.
 
MAH4546
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 12:01 pm

I think HEL is a definite possibility along with ZRH and MAD

Do you mean MAD and ZRH being served by AA? AA already flies MIA-MAD, JFK-ZRH, and DFW-ZRH, all daily with 763s.

I do think that we will see MIA-HEL and ORD-HEL in 2-4 years. ORD done daily by AA and MIA done by 3x or 4x a week by Finnair (Finnair used to fly MIA-HEL 2x a week; Miami has North America's second largest Finnish ex-pat community). I also think that in the future we will see MIA-BCN and MIA-FRA.

In 1999, AA announced a plethora of new long-haul routes. They were JFK-NRT, BOS-NRT, JFK-FRA, ORD-AMS, ORD-SVO, and MIA-ASU (to replace MIA-GRU-ASU, which still operates to this day). JFK-FRA was the only one started at that time, and it lasted only a few months. JFK-NRT was eventually started last April. I do think we will see MIA-ASU in the future once the Paraguayan economy get's back running (though thier 5th freedom rights on GRU-ASU are very lucrative). And while I would not be surprised to see AA at AMS, it would be from DFW, since ORD and MIA already are well covered to AMS. ORD has United, KLM, Sinagpore, and I think Royal Joradanian or Kuwait Airlines. MIA has Martinair Holland and KLM.
a.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 1:25 pm

I't probably too much to hope for to see some increased transAtlantic action eminating from STL, they seem intent on turning it into their "loss leader" hub. Even LGW has been reduced to four times a week in the winter.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
jcs17
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 2:55 pm

I't probably too much to hope for to see some increased transAtlantic action eminating from STL, they seem intent on turning it into their "loss leader" hub. Even LGW has been reduced to four times a week in the winter

Its a distinct possiblity that once the US aviation climate improves that you guys in STL could see a summer service to CDG again (763?)...
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
aa777flyer
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 3:18 pm

AA will not add any new European Markets in 2003. There will be additional (summer) frequencies to LHR from ORD and JFK and the STL-LGW will be daily. Other than that dont expect to see any other international growth until 2005 at the VERY earliest ( and that is if things improve ).
The TSA was created to make the post office look efficient!
 
764
Topic Author
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 4:29 pm

Well, looking at AA's history, one more ORD route comes to mind. AA has been serving the German aiport of Dusseldorf until 95. That route was lateron successfully operated by UA. UA has now left DUS due to their financial problems and the demand for flights from DUS to/through ORD is unsatisfied. I had never heard of Dusseldorf before the airport apparently burnt down in a fire in 96, killing like 20 people or so. For some reason I got interested in tht place as Germany has always been one of my dream destinations and I found out that some 15 million people (with a fair average income) live within 60 miles of DUS airport, so there is a huge customer base there.
After BA/AA doesn't seem to work out, BA's not an option for feeder flights to LHR. However, BA will be serving DUS with three daily 767s plus further connections just to feed their own transatlantic flights. I guess that it would make a lot of sense for AA to serve DUS again.
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:04 pm

764, although DUS seems to be a very interesting choice, i would rather put my money on MUC.
it´s growing rapidly and it´s got a very broad catchment area, and offers high yields.
don´t know if they want to compete directly on ORD-MUC with LH/UA, since both airports are star alliance hubs, but i do think that there will be more american carriers serving MUC in the near future.


cheers
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
gkirk
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:25 pm

How about a MIA-MAN or BOS-MAN flight?
And if BA drop MAN-JFK, would AA consider taking over that?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
HUYfan
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 9:46 pm

i think a MAN-MIA or MAN-BOS could work, i really expected Bmi to start a Boston service and am surprised that no one else has picked it up yet, i'm sure Virgin could supprt a 343 on the route.

speaking of transatlantic flights from Manchester, what will be added next? it really baffles me why Bmi are'nt flying their 'spare' 332 to miami, LA, San Fransisco or Boston???

regards

mike
 
gkirk
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 10:02 pm

The spare A332 is still in SAS config, so is really not ideal for MAN routes, however the AA 2 class 763 aircraft are ideal for routes out of MAN, so maybe the DFW-MAN route could resume in the near future?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
747firstclass
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 10:09 pm

BMI is keeping their spare aircraft in storage and ready to immediately start LHR-USA service when they get the go ahead. That way, they wont have to adjust their MAN-USA schedule etc and tarnish their wonderful reputation. Just a few hours ago the UK competition officials gave the go ahead for the BMI-UA alliance to proceed. The only remaining obstacle is for a openskies agreement to be signed between the US and UK. Would think that this approval puts incredible and enormous pressure on the UK and BA to do so.
The anti competition officials commended the benefits to consumers. That along with the lowest number of tourists to the UK in 20 years should be an incentive for somebody, somehwere in the chain of command to realize a US/UK openskies benefits everyone.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 10:54 pm

AA might add one or two European cities, but I wouldn't get your hopes up too high. AA is bleeding cash and opening up a slew of new international routes would not be financially prudent.
 
manni
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RE: New AA Routes

Fri Nov 01, 2002 10:56 pm

747firtsclass,

AA has just downgraded BRU from a daily flight to 5 flights a week. I would be surprised to see them expanding at BRU.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
A388
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RE: New AA Routes

Sat Nov 02, 2002 6:54 am

Hi MAH4546,

Regarding Amsterdam:

ORD is served by UA, SQ, KL and KU from Amsterdam. Miami is now only served by KL as MP pulled out of Miami since the end of October. Houston is served by both CO and KL with CO using a 777-200 and KLM using a 747-300/400. So enough airlines their as well. I never understood why Amsterdam never really was so attractive or interesting to U.S. airlines. Compared to many other European cities, Amsterdam does not receive a lot of flights from U.S. airlines. They only have UA 3 flights daily, CO 2 flights daily, DL 2 flights and US 1 flight daily. And off-course we have a lot of NW flights, because of the Alliance between KL and NW.

Is demand to Amsterdam that low for (other) U.S. airlines to increase operations or add more destinations to Amsterdam? Or am I missing out on something here?

Regards,

A388
 
VivaGunners
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RE: New AA Routes

Sat Nov 02, 2002 7:21 am

And what about reopening ORD-MXP that was dropped after 9/11?
Was AA doing that bad on that route?
I think it would make sense at the moment that also UA is leaving MXP in January (IAD-MXP).

Regards.
Any ideas for a signature?
 
MAH4546
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MIA-AMS

Sat Nov 02, 2002 7:47 am

Miami is now only served by KL as MP pulled out of Miami since the end of October.

No they did not. Martinair Holland flies MIA-AMS 5x a week (two flights on Saturdays). What they pulled out of is MIA-AUA, which was served 2x a week. Now they do MIA-SJO 4x a week, instead of the previous 3x a week.
a.
 
A388
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RE: New AA Routes

Sat Nov 02, 2002 8:29 am

Hi MAH4546,

I completely forgot about their SJO service via MIA, sorry about that. My mistake, I guess I'm only human  Wink/being sarcastic

Regards,

A388
 
HUYfan
Posts: 1184
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RE: New AA Routes

Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:11 am

i thought AMS had a lot of flights by US airlines.

CO EWR
CO IAH
DL ATL
DL JFK
NW BOS
NW SEA
NW DTW
NW DTW
NW DTW
NW MSP
NW MSP
NW BOM
NW EWR
NW IAD
NW JFK
UA IAD
UA ORD
US PHL

regards

mike
 
AIR757200
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RE: New AA Routes

Sat Nov 09, 2002 3:22 am

Update: AA's new second daily nonstop MIA-DTW-MIA has been upgraded to a B737-800. It appears though the intended aircraft, MD-80, will be swapped in after the holidays (mid/end-Jan).
 
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PW100
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RE: New AA Routes

Sat Nov 09, 2002 6:54 am

The problem with AMS is that there is not much O&D traffic [compared to LHR/LGW/CDG etc]. Take out KLM/NW [NW jointly operates with KLM on all transatlantic runs], and AMS has only a few services to the US.
The reason that AMS is so busy is primarily because of the hub that KLM has build with its partners [most noticeable NW]. It's a bit like ATL, which has tons of transatlantic flights by DL, but only a handful of Euro airlines [no direct service by KLM...].

It would be nice to have the [former?] largest airline in the world also present at AMS however.

PW100
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"