Alaskaairlines
Topic Author
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Fri Nov 01, 2002 12:36 pm

Hello!

I know SWA and a lot of others are retiring there 737-200's, will Alaska Airlines buy any of them and comvert them to combi's for bush operations?

Would like to hear what you guys have to say.

Thanks!

-Dmitry
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Fri Nov 01, 2002 1:22 pm

The FAA is very much Poo-Pooing any new combi aircraft, either new build or converted. So that is one of the reasons why the market value for the existing combi 737's is going through the roof.

Alaska was looking for a good many years before they picked up 747AS(I think that is the tail number) and it was desperately needed. I don't know if they are still looking for combis, they don't come on the market that often.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Alaskaairlines
Topic Author
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Fri Nov 01, 2002 3:14 pm

I think Alaska could even use some all cargo 737-200's.

-Dmitry
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Fri Nov 01, 2002 3:23 pm

I don't think that would be a smart move, most routes instate wouldn't support that large of aircraft, in anything other then a combi.

I could see a combi version of a -300 or -400 running between Anchorage and Seattle/Portland as possibly making money, but I am not sure that would justify the cost.

Of course Alaska kept N753AS running as a straight freighter for the whole summer of 1994 when I worked for them, It was the last 727 in their fleet.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Alaskaairlines
Topic Author
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Sat Nov 02, 2002 4:14 am

You could be right. I wonder how long they plan to keep the -200's, I would say at least 10 more years.

-Dmitry
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Sat Nov 02, 2002 2:52 pm

I would say at least that....

They are definatly going to outlive the MD-80's
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
RyDawg82
Posts: 833
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:30 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Sat Nov 02, 2002 3:04 pm

Yes AS could use more 737-200's. I would say if they could add 1 or even 2 all freighter -200 they would be a bit better off. It would be a dream if they could get a -790F built and approved, however that will not occur.

As far as the MD's, yeah they are on the way out, but not as soon as most would think. The rates they scored on those birds after September 11 is unheard of, and easily reclaimed the bird some much earned flying time in the years ahead. I could see N931AS N950AS and N951AS being on the top of the list to hit VCV first, maybe I can sway them to park it at my house, I don't charge rent, and trust me it would be in good hands!

Ryan aka KindaScaryHowMuchHeLovesTheMD80
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Sat Nov 02, 2002 3:11 pm

I need to correct something in my earlier post.

I can see a freighter of a mid-range 737, that means a -300 or -400 conversion. Not a combi as I typed.

I don't see much point to a -200 freighter unless Alaska wanted to fly straight cargo within Alaska to gravel strips.

I don't think there is enough of that buisness, especially when competing with Everett's and NAC's DC-6's and Lyndon's C-130's to justify the expense.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
RyDawg82
Posts: 833
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:30 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Sat Nov 02, 2002 4:31 pm

Would just make our lives upstairs a little easier if we could have a 73S operate ANC-DUT-ANC and a 73M (Freighter) run it seperatly.
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
Bjones
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:46 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:07 am

When Alaska's board of directors approved the search that resulted in the purchase of 747AS they approved the purchase of 2 aircraft. I don't know if they are still looking for another one or not. They could use it. As far as an all cargo -200 goes it would be useful for more than just gravel strips in Alaska they currently run at least one -200 in an all cargo configuration between Anchorage and Seattle every night and depending on fishing season have various freighters through southeast Alaska as well.
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:39 am

Some of the folks I've talked to have also confirmed that the MD80's are destined to stay in the fleet longer now that the lease rates are so low, much to the dismay of the cabin crews who don't like that plane at all, it seems...
 
brianhames
Posts: 743
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2000 2:22 pm

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:51 am

Wonder how long it will be before they cut a whole in the front of the 700 and make IT a combi?


 Big thumbs up
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:45 pm

After they got rid of the last 727 N753AS they where running at least one, if not two of the combis down to Seattle.

But that trip is 1200 miles. I think they have a weight penalty with using the combi's. Also you have issues with the noise curfew in Seattle. In case yall where wondering why so many flights depart right between midnight and 2 am up here is Anchorage.

A freighter conversion of a heavier lifting 737 may be a brighter solution.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Alaskaairlines
Topic Author
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Fri Nov 15, 2002 6:40 pm

Was in SEA a couple of days ago and saw a few -200's, must be cargo down and perhaps some pax from the Southern tip of AK. I think they will get more -200's in the near future, I think this would be the best time to buy them, they are pretty cheap for the time being.

-Dmitry
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Fri Nov 15, 2002 7:06 pm

They do use a combi 737 on a "milk run" to all of the small towns in Southeast.

One trip south and one trip north has been traditional.

Also some of the heavy maintaince has to be done at the Seattle Hangers.

Dimitry, the prices on -200 combis aren't dropping anytime soon. Boeing only built about 250 of them.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Bjones
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:46 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Sat Nov 23, 2002 12:29 pm

The -200 is able to carry a pretty decent load on the ANC-SEA run. It is also not limited on noise anymore because they are all hush kitted and are stage 3 compliant now. The noise restrictions out of SEA was before the hushkit.

Weren't the combis an aftermarket conversion, not an original build from Boeing?
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Sat Nov 23, 2002 1:33 pm

Nope, Boeing offered it as a factory option.

Bjones, Are you working for those guys?

Just curious, because I remember hearing that weight restrictions was one of the reasons why they held onto N753AS so long after the rest of the 727's where retired in 94.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
FlagshipAZ
Posts: 3192
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 12:40 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 12:33 am

Boeing built between 95 & 105 737-200Cs. I went to three different sources to look this up, and came away with three conflicting numbers. The last -200 Combi was built/delivered in 1985...this one every source agreed on. I also agree that Alaska could use another -200C...the tenth ship if Alaska's management can find & fund one. There are a handful in out of service/in storage per Bill Harms' census list. And let not forget that Boeing does produce a 737-700 combi/convertible...the C-40. The USN has 6 while the USAF has 4. IMO, the 737-200 is a very rugged aircraft, and the combi version will be around for many years to come, even after the early 733/4/5s are gone. Good topic as well.  Wink/being sarcastic Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
Alaskaairlines
Topic Author
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 6:54 am

You know I think the -200 is one of those excellent built planes that will out live some of the new up to date aircraft flying now. I saw about 2 of them in SEA last week, looks like they have about 2 flights per day with the -200's. Any idea what they ship down in them?

-Dmitry
 
AS_GSC
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 9:55 pm

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 7:26 am

I used to work for AS in SEA and I can tell you that anything and the kitchen sink is on there. (I do remember actually seeing some kitchen sinks!) AS continues to transport horses on a regular basis.

Salmon is the name of the game when it's in season. During the Copper River Salmon season, several freighters per day are packed with 30,000+ lbs of fish running non-stop between CDV (Cordova, Alaska) and SEA. Someone in LAX can eat something that was caught the same day in CDV.

For the most part, it's household supplies for people who are moving to or from AK or did too much shopping when they came down to the lower 48. They would have to ship any excess items as cargo.

Cheers!
AS_GSC

 
nonrevman
Posts: 1258
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 8:48 am

Some of the routes that the combis are flying are places that have no connecting roads and possibly little chance of receiving cargo by sea. They are places like Nome, Barrow, Prudhoe Bay, and Juneau. Naturally, they need some type of passenger service, so an all freighter version would not help. Yet, that cargo space is probably very precious to this communities, especially Barrow with its 1 month a year access by barge. That leaves the combi as the ideal plane for those routes.
 
Alaskaairlines
Topic Author
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:21 pm

Thanks guys! Very interesting!

-Dmitry
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 4:15 pm

If there was a combi version of the 737-700 approved for airline use, it would have several problems.

The FAA trend to deny approvals for combi aircraft, this was in response to the SAA 747 crash a few years back, which was blamed on a main deck cargo fire.

I don't think the palletized seating would need the G force requirements that are now in effect. So no quick change aircraft.

Even it there where quick change seating that could be certified, the FAA requirements now for a main deck cargo compartment pretty much would allow for only a hard bulkhead, so you would be stuck in a 3 pallet configuration, wearas the current older QC combis can be configured appropriately for the available load.

Don't expect a -700 ever to get gravel certified. That isn't as big of an issue as it used to be, but you still won't be able to land one at Red Dog.

I don't think you will be able to operate a -700 into DUT. I was down in DUT today and got to see the morning flight land (N743AS if you where wondering) It is impressive to watching it stop on that 3900 feet. A -700 could relive flight pressure on the -200's to do those marginal routes, but again getting a -200 would allow it to fly those routes.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Alaskaairlines
Topic Author
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Thu Nov 28, 2002 2:00 pm

Shawn, where is DUT? That sure would be breathtaking to watch a -200 land on a 3900' RWY! How much of it does it use when taking off? BTW, what were you doing at DUT?

-Dmitry
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Thu Nov 28, 2002 2:20 pm

Dutch Harbor is down the chain about 600 miles from Anchorage. Takes about three hours to fly it in a Metro.

It was a fun trip.

Bouncy as hell over Turnigan Arm on both legs. That was Monday, the same day that they had those wind storms take out all of those power lines down at Girdwood.

We had a charter to drop off a generator at Nikolski which is on Umnak island, the next one out from Dutch Harbor. Just happened to be scheduled to leave at 0800 which was an hour after I got off work that night. Since there was no passengers I hopped down. And since the generator weight a little over 750 lbs I think they wanted the extra help to get it off the aircraft.

Stopped for gas at my old stomping grounds at Cold Bay and then we had to go over to Dutch Harbor and pickup the mechanic that was actually going to install the generator at Nikolski and take him over there too.

We then flew VFR from Dutch Harbor to Nikolski staying under 2000 the whole way. At Nikolski we must have had the whole town out taking photographs of out aircraft. Apparently the only thing they ever see on that 3400 foot strip is the Goose that Pen-Air flies out of Dutch Harbor, nothing as big at that Metro we where flying around in!

Got to see my old ramp lead from Cold Bay at Nikolski too. Which was very cool, didn't get to see his dog though, which I puppy sat on a couple of occasions.

The only thing that was a downer is that I didn't bring a camera with me.

Like I said A really neat trip.

Like I said it was really impressive watching the 737 land, used only about two thirds of the strip but it was wet so the whole backside of the aircraft disappeared in water vapor being kicked up by the aircraft.

Too bad I didn't bring a camera, I was at our aircraft on the ramp when it landed, it would have made a great inside the fence shot.

On other observations, saw the TSA agents at work there in DUT, they must have hired those guys right off the cannery/processor lines......SCARY!!!
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Douglas DC-9
Posts: 291
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2001 2:39 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Obtain More B737-200's?

Fri Nov 29, 2002 12:55 pm

I honesly think that they should save the 737-200's for cargo services! If you ask me the 737-204 was the best model of the 737 ever built! As for Alaska Airlines buying them, I'm willing to bet that they would. But thats on me.

Thanks Much,
Daniel
 
FlagshipAZ
Posts: 3192
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 12:40 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Fri Nov 29, 2002 1:05 pm

Douglas DC-9...just out of curiosity, why do you think the -204 subtype is the best model 737? That's Britannia Airways' customer code for their 737s, and they don't fly those aircrafts anymore. Just wondering here. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?

Fri Nov 29, 2002 2:23 pm

Here is a shot of the Dutch Harbor airport for those who are interested.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dan Gasper



This Metro is landing opposite direction from where that 737 and we did that day.

The snow is also a bit lower on the mountains in this shot then it was last Monday down there. I would say it was about 250 up the sides of the hill.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.