United Airline
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B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 5:10 pm

Seems that they are not doing as well as they can. I guess its something to do with the exclusive engine deals they have with General Electric right?

At the first place, why did Boeing sign that deal? They didn't do it with the B 777-200ER/B747-400ER but these two? This is going to hurt Boeing in terms of sales since many B 777s (For example: UA's) are NOT powered by GE Engines.

Any plans to end this deal?
 
keesje
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 7:33 pm

Boeing likes to standarize it's production to reduce cost & complexity.

However it wouldn't be the first time they focus to much on their own processes & forget the customer in the process.

shooting in their own foot, many potential customers want to have the RR on their 777's for their own standarization ...
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Guest

RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:06 pm

Many customers who have RR or P&W powered widebodies will not want to order the exclusive GE90 powered 777-200LR & 300ER. Many who have RR powerplants may go to Airbus for the RR Trent powered A340-500/600. We may see in a few years a PW4000 series powerplant being offered on the new A340 models which might get NW to order them.
 
United Airline
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:07 pm

Also, P&W.

Any chance that they will end this deal?
 
Ejazz
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:07 pm

GE agreed to pay half the certification costs for engine exclusivity on the B772LR and B773ER.

SIA did ask Boeing for the RR on the above models and delayed signing for the A340-500 in the hope of a compromise. When it became apparent that a compromise was not possible under the existing contracts SIA signed for 5 firm and 5 option A340-500 to ensure the commencement of LAX-SIN non-stop services Nov 3 next year.
Etihad Girl, You're a great way to fly.
 
United Airline
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:10 pm

I think Boeing MUST end this deal IMMEDIATELY in order gain more customers to compete with Airbus.

Does anyone have the number of orders for B 777-200LR/B777-300ER, as well as A 340-500/600?

I think Northwest will order more B 747-400s, which they already have a few on order. They might consider the B 747-400ER/QLR as well, due to their growing presence in Asia.
 
United Airline
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:11 pm

Well, Boeing missed the boat. SQ could have ordered the B 777-200LR/300ER.

Let's just hope that Boeing will wake up soon.... And I hope SQ will consider the B 747-400QLR.
 
Guest

RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:16 pm

If Airbus offers to NW a PW4000 series powerplant on either the A340-500 or 600, they will buy them because their flight crews will already have the training to fly them because the A340 has the same cockpit commonality as the A330.
 
United Airline
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:19 pm

They may order both..... Who knows? They already have the B 747-400.  Smile

 
Guest

RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:27 pm

If Boeing cancels the exclusive engine deal with GE and brings in P&W and RR to market their engines on these new 777 models, it will keep the workforce at United technologies and Rolls Royce from being laid off.
 
dynkrisolo
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:54 pm

Bunch of spin doctors! No, Boeing will not abandon the deal. The 772LR might not be doing well, but the 773ER is doing quite well against the A346. It is in an order doldrum, but that has to do with the economy, not the engine. JAL and ANA were not reluctant to order the GE90 engines, even though they have 777s with the PW4000 engines. When the economy recovers, I can assure you some of the existing 777 operators with the Trents will order the 772LR/3ER, too. In fact, we probably don't even have to wait too long because Emirates is close to making their next batch of 777 orders which might likely to include the 773ER.
 
United Airline
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:54 pm

I strongly agree. Any talks on this?
 
keesje
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 9:08 pm

Only offering GE90 on these aircraft is not the strongest selling point towards some carriers.

Agreed ?
 Smile
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
raggi
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 9:17 pm

RR and PW are not willing to spend $$$$$$$ on developing 110-120K engines and then grabbing a third each of a limited run of Longer Range 777s.
It wouldn`t be economic viable.

And it still puzzles me that so many of you still consider engine commonality to be of greater significance to airlines than airframe commonality!
You really think UA ( when (if??) they emerge from their difficulties ) will order A345/6 with PWs( if the 345/6 will ever get pratts) instead of the 772LR/773ER with GEs????

come on!


raggi
Stick & Rudder
 
artsyman
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 9:21 pm

The silly thing is that the GE90 is a fantastic engine, so I don't see what the problem is.

Jeremy
 
SailorOrion
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 9:30 pm

While RR might be able to offer an engine for these planes quite quickly (they already had Trents running with 105,000+ lbf), P&W cannot. The PW4000 core has been maxed out, according to PW themselves. So they would need to build a new engine type, and I doubt that would pay off.

SailorOrion
 
United Airline
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 10:30 pm

I think if UA survives through its current crisis, I don't think they will order the A 345/346 with P&W Engines. Instead they will order more B 777-200ERs, as well as B 747-400/400ER/400QLR. I mean when it comes to REPLACEMENT, which will not happen anytime soon Afterall, they have a large fleet of these two types. So you never know......

But there is a market for the B 777-200LR, as well as 300ER.
 
dynkrisolo
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Fri Nov 01, 2002 10:33 pm

P&W is not alone. Rolls won't be able to do a 115,000-lb engine with its current Trent 800 core. Having run an engine up to 105,000 lb does not mean it can have a certifiable engine at that thrust.
 
JAL
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Sat Nov 02, 2002 12:00 am

I definitely think that Boeing should end the exclusivity deal with GE, this deal is costing the 777-200LR/300ER potential customers.

Just out of curiosity, doesn't Airbus have a similar deal with RR to power the A340-500/600?
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
United Airline
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Sat Nov 02, 2002 12:36 am

So which one is doing better? The B 777-300ER or the A 346?
 
sllevin
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:32 am

I think it's the matter of it being a fairly small niche. Boeing got a good deal from GE to lessen the cost of development -- perhaps it will cost them a handful of sales, but the idea is profit as well as numbers. It's just not clear that there's a big order lurking for any ultra-long-range machine.

Steve
 
Guest

RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Sat Nov 02, 2002 2:43 am

Airbus DOES NOT have an exclusive engine deal with Rolls Royce. Rolls Royce had the Trent 500 series powerplant available at the time to power the new A340-500/600 models. P&W could possibly offer a PW4000 series engine to Airbus as an option for their new A340 models in a few years for anyone interested such as NW and others.
 
Guest

RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Sat Nov 02, 2002 4:15 am

IF UA survived, they'll be likely to order 0 long-haul aircraft until their financial status is healthy.

Till that time, UA will be likely to buy 777s unless the market demand shows there's a need for B747/A380 class aircraft.
 
United Airline
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Sat Nov 02, 2002 11:48 am

So does anyone have the updated number of orders for the A 345, 346, as well as the B 772LR, B 773ER?

Thanks!

 
United Airline
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Sat Nov 02, 2002 11:50 am

Also anything else they can do to promote these two products?
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Sat Nov 02, 2002 12:49 pm

There are currently five 772LR and 49 773ER sold.

BR and PK have ordered the 772LR
BR, NH, JL, AF, and PK have all ordered the 773ER, as well as ILFC and GEACS.


I'm surprised GEACS hasnt ordered the 772LR... that could fortify the program and give other airlines confidence in the production of the model.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
United Airline
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:21 pm

Thanks mate!

What about the A 3450-500, as well as the 600?
 
Guest

RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:28 pm

I read where Airbus might be releasing an increased gross weight version of the A340-600 with range close to the A340-500 which would beat the 777-300ER.
 
Guest

RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:39 pm

I thought B772LR/773ER gets more order than 345/346?

By the way, A340-500/-600 got 0 orders for 2002, I think. (excluding the SAA order, which some comes from ex-Swissair order)
 
United Airline
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:42 pm

Bigo747,

I think so too.

-Desmond
 
The Coachman
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:42 pm

If Airbus did that, they would shoot the A340-500 down themselves. There is no point if the A340-600 could do that. I saw in a mag that if AI could get the A340-600IGW to work, then CX would order a whole heap. And for once I would believe the magazine, it makes a lot of sense.
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United Airline
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RE: B 777-200LR/B777-300ER

Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:44 pm

If CX likes the A 340-600, they will order more...

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