ovelix
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 1999 12:50 am

British Spotters Appeal

Tue Nov 05, 2002 1:05 am

The group of British plane-spotters found guilty of spying in Greece are due in court on Monday to appeal their convictions.

The topic has been discussed in this forum and the bottomline was that they indeed broke the local law. Many of us are spotters but at least we are aware that our hobby is not above the law.

Kostas
 
jettrader
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Tue Nov 05, 2002 1:12 am


...and your point is...?
Life's dangerous. Get a f**king helmet!
 
Guest

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Tue Nov 05, 2002 1:24 am

I thought they were let off? Aren't they back in the UK? At the end of the day, I think the British/Greek governments will work something out, because I really don't think these guys are going to end up in jail.

I agree that you shouldn't break local laws ("when in Rome, do as the Romans do" etc.), but I believe this problem will be resolved amicably.
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Tue Nov 05, 2002 1:25 am

Was there any evidence at all to show they were spies?
 
ovelix
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 1999 12:50 am

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Tue Nov 05, 2002 1:36 am

They were initially released on bail. After the conviction they all left for the UK. Their sentences were suspended.

Donder10, they had notepads and photos indicating military planes movements. They never said that they did not take photos or notes. They just deny the espionage charges.

Kostas
 
jayhup
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:22 pm

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Tue Nov 05, 2002 1:37 am

If they were trespassing on gov't property then they should have been punished but to accuse them of spying at an Air Show is utterly ridiculous.

 
ovelix
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 1999 12:50 am

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Tue Nov 05, 2002 1:41 am

Jayhup

Please do a search on previous threads about the case. They were arrested outside the fence, well after the end of the show.

Before that they had been taking pictures at several military airports, including a NATO airbase. They were repeatedly advised to leave by security officers but they chose to ignore them.

Kostas
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Tue Nov 05, 2002 1:50 am

They should not have broken the local laws, but i still don't think they were there for spying or espionage. Spies and secret agents don't make the themselves so obvious.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
David_itl
Posts: 5970
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Tue Nov 05, 2002 2:49 am

This is the thread in question.

With the spotters viewpoint here, here, and here.


David
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Tue Nov 05, 2002 4:04 am

Donder10, they had notepads and photos indicating military planes movements. They never said that they did not take photos or notes. They just deny the espionage charges.

Many spotters note movements.I agree that they were prats to some extent from what I have heard but espionage is a big jump and there doesn't appear to be much evidence for it.The Greeks don't really seem to have understood what spotting is about and so lump the movements logs into intelligence-I thought Greece had signed up to an agreement which stated that they could not withhold some military information on movements etc-Turkey has signed up to this too AFAIK,.
 
ovelix
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 1999 12:50 am

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Tue Nov 05, 2002 4:59 am

Many spotters note movements.

And that makes the military obliged to tolerate such actions? When a sign says "No photos" how much more clear needs to be?


I agree that they were prats to some extent from what I have heard but espionage is a big jump and there doesn't appear to be much evidence for it.

Please stop the espionage thing. The court did not say they are spies. They were convicted for "obtaining state secrets". Espionage means that someone uses the info in favour of other countries, persons etc.


The Greeks don't really seem to have understood what spotting is.
And the britons don't really seem to understand that they have to respect the law, even if they don't agree with it.

The agreement you refer to is about information between countries. That means e.g. Greece and Turkey have to inform each other in case or large military movements such as exercises. The info is not for everyone though...

Kostas



 
David_itl
Posts: 5970
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Tue Nov 05, 2002 5:18 am

Kostas

What part of When a sign says "No photos" how much more clear needs to be? means no notes can be taken?

I think I'll now look for these "state secrets" that are freely available on the internet.

David
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Tue Nov 05, 2002 7:39 am

I thought we were all part of the EU now and things were meant to be "standardised"...

Its about time the Greeks realised that aeroplane spotting and even photography are widely practiced and are legal pretty much across the whole of the EU, that they drop this stupidity against citizens of another EU state, and come into line with the rest of the community that they perport to be a part of.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Tue Nov 05, 2002 10:37 pm

I have also read that the spotters had permisson to be where they were.
 
Going64
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:01 pm

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:22 am

There're 2 Dutch spotters involved as well!
Peter
 
David_itl
Posts: 5970
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Thu Nov 07, 2002 5:10 am

And all have had their convictions quashed! Ho hum.. so much for the bottomline was that they indeed broke the local law, eh Kostas  Big grin

David
 
IwantaBBJ
Posts: 916
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2002 2:14 am

RE: British Spotters Appeal

Thu Nov 07, 2002 5:13 am