bobnwa
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

New ATA Flights From PIE

Tue Nov 05, 2002 10:40 pm

ATA will start new non-stop service from PIE(St. Petersburg-Clearwater) to LAX, SFO, and LAS. SFO and LAX will start 2/7/03 and will be daily except for one day a week. LAS will start on 3/6/03, and will be twice a week
All flights will be on 757-300. The LAX and SFO flights will continue on to HNL and OGG.
 
johnboy
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Tue Nov 05, 2002 11:15 pm

LAX-PIE: The Scientology Express!
 
ouboy79
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 1:19 am

Welcome to the new ATA Mini-Hub.  Smile
 
jjbiv
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 1:47 am

I hope someone knows what the hell we're doing with these new routes...I'm all for boosting utilization rates on these expensive new birds, but I'm "eager" to see how these particular routes will perform. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of these markets can chime in. We're using our largest aircraft to launch non-hub flying? One of those things that make you go hmmm...

Here's another thread on this topic: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/956505/

joe
 
AA737-823
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 1:59 am

um.... I have been to Tampa- flew into tampa int'l of course- and it was great. The family I was down there to visit with lives very near PIE however. I asked as we drove by, "should I have flown into this airport?" And they said, "well, it's much closer, but no airlines fly there." As she said that, I saw an ATA 737-800 on finals about three feet over the roof of the car (I could almost read MICHELIN as they went over the higway). Then, I saw a billboard for PANAM. So, I came home and found out that yes, ATA does have SCHEDULED svc to PIE. Great I thought.

But honestly (point of this reply) why would they make it a mini- hub? Not that many people live out there, and it's 45 minutes from Tampa. Which is nowhere near Miami. Who is gonna fly LAX-PIE? It's like... flying into Arlington airport here in the metroplex. Airline service? okay, maybe. Hub? You're smoking grass.

WITH A 757-300!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! whatever.

I like ATA. I hpe they don't spend much money on this, because I don't think it makes any sense what-so-ever.

RanDale
 
Fly_ATA
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 2:07 am

A few reasons may be the very low landing fees and the fact that the St. Petersburg dept. of tourism pays for a nice chunk of advertising for ATA.
 
bobnwa
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 2:35 am

AA737-823

I don't think you have your facts straight. More people in the Tampa Bay area live closer to PIE than TPA. You mentioned its "nowhere near Miami". What does that have to do with it. The Tampa Bay area has more than 3.2 million population.

Also all of the Suncoast beaches are closer to PIE, which is why tourists come to Florida
 
MAH4546
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 5:17 am

The Tampa Bay area has more than 3.2 million population.

TPA has less than 3M people. It is a large city, though. What is odd is that there is going to be PIE-SFO service, but there is no TPA-SFO service.

I find the route selection very odd. I was thinking they would want to do FLL-LAX/SFO. FLL is a much larger market, with the only trans-con service being two daily AA 757s to LAX.
a.
 
727LOVER
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 5:41 am

Actually, ATA used to have a mini-hub at PIE. BTW, Pan Am left.
Love Trumps Hate
 
bobnwa
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 6:08 am

The figures do not show that FLL is a better market than TPA to LAX, SFO, LAS.

Average passengers per day

FLL-LAS---471
TPA-LAS---675

FLL-LAX---738
TPA-LAX---712

FLL-SFO---180
TPA-SFO---252

These numbers are from the Department of Transportation.

As far as popualation goes the Tampa Bay area has a population of 3,205,996 as of the census of 2000. These numbers are from the State of Florida web site.

Also per The Nielson people, the Tampa Bay area is the 13th largest in the country as a media market. FLL-MIA is listed as #17.
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 6:11 am

According to the recent Census, the Tampa Bay area (Hillsborough, Pinellas, Pasco, and Manatee counties) has a total population of 2,589,109. Pinellas County (St. Pete/Clearwater) alone accounts for 924,610 citizens, whereas Hillsborough County accounts for 1,027,318 citizens. I believe Pinellas County is the most densely populated county in Florida, given its size in relation to Hillsborough County.

I hope ATA plans on expanding their ticket counters at PIE. It's going to be a madhouse in the early morning hours, if the carrier ever gets to their full load factors.

UA had plans to start TPA-SFO when they had TPA-LAX, but that was shelved.

ATA used to have PIE-SJU and PIE-MIA once upon a time.
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 6:16 am

By the way, I did not count Polk county (as the State of Florida may have counted it) as they really are not part of Tampa Bay. The Lakeland area is pretty much their own entity, split between traveling to MCO or TPA.
 
727LOVER
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 6:28 am

I think ATA is the REAL glue holding PIE together. Who else serves it?

Royal-gone
Canada 3000-gone
Pan Am(#3)-gone
American-gone
Air South-gone
Midway(#1)-gone
People Express/Continental-gone
Eastwind-gone (they were there only 9 days!)

I think this is all:
Some small form of Sunjet International/Southeast
Air Transat
ATA

Love Trumps Hate
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:05 am

Also per The Nielson people, the Tampa Bay area is the 13th largest in the country as a media market. FLL-MIA is listed as #17.

Media market is no way to judge a city's size. Tampa's media market covers a much larger area because they are the only major city in a large area. South Florida has two media markets, Miami and West Palm Beach, that divide South Florida. Miami's CMSA is somewhere around 3.85M. Tampa's CMSA is not 3.2M.

The figures do not show that FLL is a better market than TPA to LAX, SFO, LAS.

Actually, those figures do show that FLL is a better market to LAX. Most of Ft. Lauderdale's LAX/SFO/LAS traffic goes through MIA. MIA has seven dailies to LAX, three to LAS (will be six by March), and four to SFO, plus SEA and YVR. FLL just has one to LAS and two to LAX.

As far as popualation goes the Tampa Bay area has a population of 3,205,996 as of the census of 2000. These numbers are from the State of Florida web site.


You are about 1,000,000 off (and so if the State of Florida website). The Tampa-St. Petersburg CMSA has 2,395,997 residents as of Census 2000. Miami-Ft. Lauderdale is 3,876,380, and when it merges with Palm Beach in 2004 (assuming the merger goes through as expected; the total land area of Miami-Ft. Lauderdale-Palm Beach CMSA will still be smaller than Tampa-St. Peterburg), it will be at just over 5,000,000.
a.
 
CactusA319
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:39 am


The Monday Morning CEO's strike again.  Yeah sure

I'm sure the heads at ATA (who get paid to make these decisions) have figured that this is the best way to go. I see the TPA/PIE-West Coast market as being underserved (3 flights to SFO/LAX/LAS), while the MIA/FLL (14 flights to SFO/LAX/LAS) market offers more competiton for ATA. ATA is probably better off tapping the western Florida market instead of going for South Florida which already has a fair amount of service. I'm sure ATA sees it the same way which is why they decided on this strategy.

 
Big777jet
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 9:18 am


>Royal-gone
>Canada 3000-gone
>Pan Am(#3)-gone
>American-gone
>Air South-gone
>Midway(#1)-gone
>People Express/Continental-gone
>Eastwind-gone (they were there only 9 days!)

Is that you said? "American" have been served before? I never heard of American Airlines served to PIE all my life. Are you sure? So, if it did so where they fly to and when they stop serve?

Thanks,

Big777jet


 
redngold
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:17 pm

PIE is much closer to Bradenton and Palmetto than TPA. I have family there and if I could fly into PIE without changing airlines for a connection (no codeshare from CLE) then I would probably do it.

The only time I ever flew into PIE was in 1993 with KIWI International. Unfortunately it was KIWI, not the airport itself, that left me with a bad taste.

How many other people realize that in addition to TPA & PIE, there's also SRQ (Sarasota) and three g/a airports in the Tampa metro area?

redngold
Up, up and away!
 
BA
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:53 pm

MAH4546,

I find the route selection very odd. I was thinking they would want to do FLL-LAX/SFO. FLL is a much larger market, with the only trans-con service being two daily AA 757s to LAX.

FLL may be a larger market, but it is a wiser choice for ATA than PIE? The answer is no.

Lets take a look at this:

Tampa Bay Area (TPA/PIE) - Los Angeles (LAX): 1 Delta 757 from TPA, 0 from PIE.
Tampa Bay Area (TPA/PIE) - San Francisco (SFO): 0 from TPA, 0 from PIE.

Southern Florida (MIA/FLL) - Los Angeles (LAX): 2 United from MIA, 5 American flights from MIA, 2 American from FLL.
Southern Florida (MIA/FLL) - San Francisco (SFO): 1 on United from MIA, 2 on American from MIA, 0 from FLL.

Which market has the least competition? The Tampa Bay Area, and the most logical choice.

I understand you like the Southern Florida region because it's your home, however you need to understand that airlines do not always go for the largest market.

They go for the market that makes the most sense and in this case, the one with the least competition and MOST potential.

The MIA/FLL - LAX/SFO market is already served well.

There is nothing on the TPA/PIE-LAX/SFO market except 1 daily Delta flight on a 757 to SFO from TPA.

This is why ATA chose PIE, and it makes a lot of sense.

Like the others mentioned, PIE also has incredibly low landing fees and operatinc costs. That's another advantage for ATA.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
MAH4546
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:56 pm

American Eagle served MIA-PIE back in 1997. Not sure how long it lasted.
a.
 
ToFlyToServe
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 1:27 pm

Just wanted to let you all know that Sunjet International had its headquarters in St. Pete. I was a Flight Attendant for them during the 90s and I thought PIE was a neat airport! I loved taking off over the water. The view was great!!!We operated MD-80s and DC-9s. I was based in DFW and Sunjet operated the DC-9 on that scheduled route. It, by far, was my favorite airport, route, and plane to work.
It is good to hear that ATA is still at PIE. I had a lot of friends that work, or worked, for them at PIE. Soo just wanted you guys to know that PIE has a little more history to it. Thanks!!!!!!!
 
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RayChuang
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 1:39 pm

I think the Tampa-St. Petersberg area is really ignored despite the fact that it is a very fast-growing area. When people think of Florida they either think of the Miami/Ft. Lauderdale/Palm Beach area and Orlando, conveniently ignoring Tampa/St. Petersberg and Jacksonville.  Insane

Good for ATA to fly PIE-SFO, especially given more and more cruise ships are starting and ending their cruises away from overcrowded Miami.  Smile
 
fpdonald
Posts: 413
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 1:48 pm

Non hub . . . couldn't help get past that . . . FA bases in both LAX and SFO.

Coast to coast, non stop, unequalled . . . a niche.

PIE is close enough to MCO to take advantage of the cheaper fares, being only an hour by road. Who else can match the route/time/investment?

Kudos, where due.

 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Wed Nov 06, 2002 2:37 pm

I think BA has the right point as well -- there's tons of MIA/FLL service to LAX and SFO; why take all that on when from TPA/PIE there's no real competiton and far less infrastructure for it (as compared to American's significant operation at MIA)

Steve
 
scottysair
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Thu Nov 07, 2002 11:21 am

Hey Guys!!!

I do remember seen with Eastwind, Canada 3000 and Air South were before into Florida there, too. When I was see Eastwind were came into FLL by last of 4 years ago from Greensboro, SC or Charleston, SC. I think. It was on the aircraft by B737-700, too. That was of the last time seen with Eastwind were came into FLL, too. I pretty sure that one for before. They are use into South terminal 4. Also, I did see Air South were flying into JAX, too. Well, catch ya later!!

Regards,

Scott W.
 
jjbiv
Posts: 1203
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Thu Nov 07, 2002 11:26 am

Does PIE have any jetbridges? Is the terminal decent? If these new routes perform, there are going to be a LOT of people going through PIE on ATA. Let's hope our facilities (and those of the airport) can adequately support them.

joe
 
ouboy79
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Thu Nov 07, 2002 12:14 pm

Non hub . . . couldn't help get past that . . . FA bases in both LAX and SFO.

Is this in regards to that ATA isn't setting a hub up or that there aren't any current hubs in PIE?

Supposedly, according to the company conference call...PIE is being referred to as a "mini-hub".
 
CactusA319
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Fri Nov 08, 2002 1:59 am


Mini-hub? They're going to be flying to 4 different destinations (LAX,SFO,LAS,MDW) and there are really no connections between any of them. That doesn't qualify it as a hub.
 
727LOVER
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Fri Nov 08, 2002 2:43 am

Cactus 319, perhaps they will add flights to within Florida destinations, then it would classify as a mimi-hub. As I stated before, they used to operate a minihub here a few years back.

Big 777jet, YES, AA(mainline) briefly flew into PIE. It was in the late 80s & I can't remember if the flights were to DFW or RDU....but YES! they did fly here.
Love Trumps Hate
 
ouboy79
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Fri Nov 08, 2002 5:09 am

Mini-hub? They're going to be flying to 4 different destinations (LAX,SFO,LAS,MDW) and there are really no connections between any of them. That doesn't qualify it as a hub.

Company's words not mine.  Smile Perhaps there is more in the works than we know right now. AirTran Airways (original) flew point to point only from Orlando to 20+ cities. There weren't any connections between the flights (until Comair was brought on as AirTran Connection)...so does that mean MCO wasn't a hub for AirTran because there wasn't any connection potential. Something to think about.

Also you left out IND as the list of cities served from PIE.
 
pecoua
Posts: 284
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Fri Nov 08, 2002 5:25 am

I just booked myself roundtrip from LAS/PIE/LAS an when I booked my seat, it was a 737-800...I am leaving on the 9th of March and ATA said that was the first day of the svc...looking forward to it.

 
fpdonald
Posts: 413
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Fri Nov 08, 2002 5:25 am

I think you are losing the gist of these new schedules. Basically, it's a one stop to Hawaii from Florida. Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays has long worked with ATA, and other airlines, offering tour packages.

Intrastate traffic is highly unlikely, the MCO/PBI service never made any money. Also, Southwest Airlines currently wears the intrastate crown.

The flights will be easy to crew since bases exist in both LAX and SFO; indeed, this has just saved the SFO base. At the moment, West Coast to Hawaii is mostly done on a turn basis.
 
CactusA319
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:45 am


Oh yeah forgot that they served IND or as I call it "the forgotten hub".

I'm not sure that ATA would go intra-state seeing as how Southwest and AirTran are currently duking it out in that market.

 
TBoneCapalbo
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Fri Nov 08, 2002 11:58 am

No, PIE does not have jet bridges. However, the terminal is a beautiful facility. It is very easy to get in and out of. I would fly out of PIE any day over TPA. It's also nice being able to step out into the sun upon arrival to the airport, as it is right on the water.
 
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coronado
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Fri Nov 08, 2002 1:47 pm

2 or 3 times a year I fly ATA's MSP-MDW-SRQ route since it puts me right into Sarasota and just about 10 minutes from my destination. I prefer it to the NWA MSP-TPA (usually more expensive and then an hour drive when I am tired) or the Airtran via ATL to TPA or the DL via ATL to SRQ or TPA since I will try and avoid ATL whenever possible--too many delays or missed connections over the years, but then I feel the same way about ORD.

Once I almost took the ATA into PIE and then changed to the next day into SRQ so I have just driven past PIE or looked down on it overflying.

Will this increased focus on PIE mean that ATA may drop SRQ?

The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
 
ZID
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Fri Nov 08, 2002 11:27 pm

Yes the Tampa/St.Petersburg MSA is only 2,395,997 but BobNWA brought up an interesting stat when he mentioned Nielsen's media ADI (area of dominant influence), Tampa/St.Pete's ADI is larger than Miami/Ft.Lauderdale's ADI and in this instance that is a much more relevent number than MSA population since it takes into account all of the people living nearby but not close enough to be included in the MSA that would have to use the larger cities airports because their town has none.

MIA/FLL has a larger immediate CMSA population but then nothing but the Everglades for neighbors whereas TPA/PIE has numerous small cities like Lakeland, Bradenton and Sarasota with which to draw potential passengers (and no, SRQ is not relevent since we are discussing non-stop flights to LAX, SFO and LAS).

But as BA said, the lack of competition in the TPA/PIE market made PIE an easy choice regardless.
I'm not joking! This is my job!
 
ZID
Posts: 292
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Fri Nov 08, 2002 11:33 pm

Ooops, sorry. Arbitron has the ADI's, Nielsen has the DMI's (designated market areas).
I'm not joking! This is my job!
 
Skyway1
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RE: New ATA Flights From PIE

Thu Nov 14, 2002 9:47 am

Just a little interesting sidenote about PIE. ATA's 737-800's are currently capped out to 156 out of 175 seats available out of PIE due to runway construction. No restrictions on seats with the 757's. Just thought I would add that to the discussion. Right now ATA's loads to PIE from both IND and MDW are extremely high, so somebody in the higher ups at ATA might know what they are doing with this service announcement.

Regards,

Chris  Smile  Smile
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo