Latest News On Egyptair 990

Mon Nov 01, 1999 11:10 am

CNN, MSNBC, BBC, and ABCnews are my sources....

An EgyptAir Boeign 767-300, flight 990, registration (EGYPT)-GOP, (i think) crashed 41 minutes after takeoff from New York's John F. Kennedy International airport. The plane crashed 65 miles of the coast of Nantucket in international waters. The United States has been asked to lead the investigation with the government of Egypt. There was NO distress signal and the aircraft lost about 15,000 feet in 36 seconds, before disappearing off the radar screen. The US Coast guard has announce the finding of wreckage and 1 body. There were 217 pax aboard, 129 americans, 63 egyptians, the others included sudanese and chilean. Egypt air has advised roughly 90 families and working 24/7. Also the aircraft left CAIRO and had to be diverted to NEWARK because of FOG. Yes there was lots of fog, i live here. The plane then continued to LAX where it was delayed for the changing of a tire. It departed LAX and arrived JFK at roughly 1:00 AM SUNDAY. It took off and 41 minutes later lost contact. ALSO, reportedly an EgyptAir employee, got off the plane at JFK from LAX. Under US LAW this is not allowed. That is all i know. Pray for the victims of this crash. Why does there seem to be so many crashes out of JFK???????
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RE: Latest News On Egyptair 990

Mon Nov 01, 1999 11:41 am

Aviation Analyists were comparing the events of 990 and the bomb exploding at Cairo Int'l (Reported by FoxNews) to an Air India incident in the late 1980's. The Air India 747 exploded leaving no fuselage to be recovered. At nearly the same time in Tokyo a bomb exploded on a luggage cart. The same events are scarryingly close to what has just happened. Only time will tell.
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RE: Latest News On Egyptair 990

Mon Nov 01, 1999 3:26 pm

The aircraft was SU-GAP, delivered in Sept 1989. It had 30,000 hrs and 6,900 cycles. Confirming what Jetplane32 said, I'd like to add that it now appears that the aircraft was pretty much intact as it plummeted. The descent rate was 23,000 fpm, so fuselage sections would have peeled off during the descent, possibly sections of the wing too. Debris found around the scene of the debris shows no sign of the burning which would have accompanied an explosion.

This is going to be an extremely complicated investigation. The cause of the most popular transatlantic aircraft just dropping out of the sky, apparently without a mayday call, will need to be known as soon as possible.
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RE: Latest News On Egyptair 990

Mon Nov 01, 1999 3:56 pm

I have never heard of that law that says that a N/R employee can't ride Space-A between two US cities on a forgien airline. In fact my previous employer had an interline agreement for travel between ANC and JFK on an asian carrier.

This sounds like a lot to do about nothing.

At least is in reletively shallow water. That was the problem with recovering the Air India crash that was mentioned.

RE: Latest News On Egyptair 990

Mon Nov 01, 1999 4:51 pm

My first thoughts are going to all the victims of flight 990.
From the first time I heard about the crash, I immeadetaly was making the comparision with the Lauda Air flight that went down a few years ago above Thailand (thrust reverse probs). Although it is too premature to define the cause of this crash, it is just a thought (not a wild guess).
Pray for all the victims and let us, all in serenity, follow this case very close.
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RE: Latest News On Egyptair 990

Mon Nov 01, 1999 5:12 pm

As you might have heard, the B767-300 that crashed yesterday came off the production line next after the B767-300 delivered to Lauda, crashing some while ago. I think there is something to compare here...
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767 Have A Great Safety Record!

Mon Nov 01, 1999 5:27 pm

It was with great pitty that I saw yesterday in the news another crash comming from JFK. Last year just 3 days latter than my flight from there ( BA 767-300ER G-BNWR ) the SR111 MD11 crashed a little bit further! I've flown in the 767 and it looks a very good airplane with an excelent safety record, just 2 fatal accident before this one, the first with Lauda Air was quite devastating but we can't match that with this one, I'm sure Boeing did the modifications and procedures regarding that problem, also the Lauda Air flight took more time to crash than the Egyptair one, the second accident is the well know Ethiopian, nothing to deal with this. My personal opinion goes to a bomb in this plane, we all know how Egypt as been a kind of contra-weight in the Middle-East and we also know that are many fatatic people that can be blind enough to blow a plane just because is from a certain country, the sad part of this story is always inocent lifes are claimmed with these types of things. Lets hope the american authorities will clear this out soon.
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
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RE: 767 Have A Great Safety Record!

Mon Nov 01, 1999 10:02 pm

Sincere condolenses to the families of those who perished in the disaster of flight 990.
Yes the Boeing 767 does have a good safety record, three major disasters within the first fifteen years of service.
First one: Lauda Air in 1991. That one was due to a thrust reverser malfunction.
Second one: Ethiopian in 1996. That one was simply due to a terrorist act: the aircraft was running out of fuel and the hijackers forced the crew to fly across the Indian Ocean.
Third one: Egyptair now: I wouldn't say that it was due to a bomb threat. Remember three years ago when TWA 800 went down, we all thought it would be due to a bomb threat but it wasn't. It was due to an insulation problem in the center fuel tank. Swissair 111's disaster was due to a faulty electrical wiring set up. The cause of the Egypt Air crash is not known yet but I would relate it to a technical malfunction. Maybe the maintenance procedure wasn't stricly followed, maybe the aircraft lost hydraulic power. I would not say that it would be due to a complete electrical failure because in such an event there is always a generator serving as a back up power. Did the crew declare an emergency? Although that the probability of loosing two engines on a 767 is very very tiny, it is possible that it happened just on that particular flight (I'm not saying it did happen, I'm just trying to understand what could have happened). If it was just due to the loss of one engine, the crew would have landed their 767 safely to Boston, Hartford or made it back to JFK.
Yes, the Boeing 767 is a safe aircraft and it will be in production for years to come. Even the DC-10 became a safe aircraft after the first tragic years in its history.

Ben Soriano
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RE: 767 Have A Great Safety Record!

Mon Nov 01, 1999 10:29 pm

Hi again Ben.

Just a couple of things. There doesn't seem to have been an electrical failure as the transponder seems to have been working all the way down to 19,000 feet. And even a double engine failure surely would have resulted in more of a gliding descent rather than the plummet which seems to have happened. Whatever happened, it must have been pretty sudden.
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RE: Latest News On Egyptair 990

Mon Nov 01, 1999 10:47 pm

I don't belive in the bomb theory because nobody have claimed the authority so far. Bombs are used to call attention to some terrorist organisation fight but until now we now nothing.
Also I don't understand why DeltAir is talking again about that supposed explosion at Cairo Intl. if yesterday you told me to forget because it was some lunatic guy.
What's the final version?

Luis, Faro, Portugal
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RE: Latest News On Egyptair 990

Mon Nov 01, 1999 11:12 pm

What if it was the same thing that happened to the Lauda 767? Maybe both thrust reversers deployed, and that could end up in a sudden loss of speed and altitude. The EgyptAir a/c was the 767 number 282 to be built and the Lauda was the number 283. They came off the production line one after the other. They did have the same powerplant - PW4060... I seriously think it could be something like that...
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RE: Latest News On Egyptair 990

Tue Nov 02, 1999 4:11 am

A really intresting thing that this had to happen on halloween, as far as Canada goes we also had to suffer the loss of Canadian Race Car Driver Greg Moore hours after this crash, but it has to be one crazy week from Payne Stewart, Blue Angles, and that other golfer that almost shared the same fate as Payne. I can only hope this ends here......


RE: Latest News On Egyptair 990

Tue Nov 02, 1999 5:00 pm

Does anyone here recall a Martinair flight, which I believe was a 763, which lost all electrical power over Canada some years ago? Amazingly the pilots were able to take control the aircraft bring it down safely. Perhaps if you are researching the safety of the 763, you may want to take this event into account as well. Some of my facts may be inaccurate, but still worth a thought.

RE: Flek!

Tue Nov 02, 1999 5:02 pm

So Flek, what are you trying to say, 767s are unsafe......thats a laugh!
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Tue Nov 02, 1999 5:26 pm

You wouldn't happen to recall anything else about that flight?, date and so on? It would help a bit.


Wed Nov 03, 1999 1:01 am

For goodness sake, I never stated in any way that the 767 was an unsafe aircraft. I have no authority or expertise to make such an absurd claim. All I was doing was giving information to those who wanted it or were interested, I thought I made that pretty clear. It seemed that many were speculating as to what happened in this crash, I was just giving some more information with might have been useful to certain people.

The registration of the aircraft was PH-MCH, and the incident took place over Boston, not Canada as I previously posted. For anyone who may want to know more about it, the NTSB report is at the following site:-
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Wed Nov 03, 1999 1:58 am

Another plane in my guess that went down like yours was an Air Canada one, it ran out of fuel and landed in a place called gimili, two hours north of winnipeg.
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RE: On ReFLEKtion . . .

Wed Nov 03, 1999 2:12 am

I agree with Flek; nothing he said in his post seemed to suggest that the 767 was an unsafe aircraft; indeed, that very thought came to me yesterday when I posted the list of 767s from 273 to 290 or so, as there was a Martinair 767 among them. However, the circumstances were a little different. It was however a PW powered aircraft and I'm sure the NTSB will look into it.

However, the more I think about it, the more I think that the parallels between the Lauda aircraft and 'GAP are very interesting. Again, I think that what occurred at 19,000' will be crucial. If (as has been suggested) an explosion took place here, then that will be another parallel, for the Lauda aircraft began with a fairly steep dive from about 240 and exploded at 150, when the fuel tanks ruptured and exploded, due to the aircraft being overstressed.
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RE: Kennedy Airport Curse

Wed Nov 03, 1999 9:07 am

I sure would like to know why a 767-300 would crash, that is a fairly new aircraft, I don't know why so many planes out of JFK are crashing, hey there is the kennedy curse, how about the kennedy airport curse? I was wanting to fly on a 767 but now I think I'll hold off please  .

RE: Latest News On Egyptair 990

Wed Nov 03, 1999 10:17 pm

It surprises me that even though we are entering the 21st century, we still have to deal with aircraft malfunction and the destruction of lives. Why do goverments spend so much money on armaments, contraptions used to kill human lives, when the world is already full of misery.
There should be more money placed into aircraft safety research and medical research, which is next to the issue, to insure that such tragedies are never repeated. Should we still have to accept the fact that 217 people died because an engine malfuction?
On the other hand, I think that something weird is going on at Kennedy airport, 3 crashes in the last 2 to 3 years. This is not acceptable. The missile theory was denied when the TWA flight crashed, what can we say about the other crashes, can they be linked? Is the U.S. goverment hiding some dark secrets?
One thing I am sure of, I will try and avoid at any cost having to fly from JFK.
Finally, I would like to state that Boeing will hopefully change it's approach to aircraft production from quantity to quality.
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RE: Hmmm...

Thu Nov 04, 1999 4:45 am

Guess what? PH-MCH (the Martinair plane) was #294 out of the production line. 11 after the Lauda and 12 after the Egyptair. It was delivered to Martinair some four months after these two. So we can safely say that these three planes were built around the same time. And another interesting thing is that PH-MCH also used the PW4060 engines, just like the other two. Interesting...
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RE: Latest News On Egyptair 990

Thu Nov 04, 1999 7:40 am

I don't want to scare anybody, but PH-MCI (the one after MCH) DID had an engine minor incident on November 1st in Oporto, Portugal...

BTW, it also uses PW engines...

Take a look at the topic "KLM (767?) Incident In Oporto, Portugal.", posted today by me.


TP343, São Paulo, Brazil.

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