LBA
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No Frills From LBA

Wed Nov 13, 2002 9:23 pm

Anyone heard which cities Jet2 will be serving when they launch from LBA in February next year? The announcement is due today - but can't find anything as yet.
 
Thomas_Jaeger
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Wed Nov 13, 2002 9:50 pm

Jet2 is pleased to announce the following destinations for 2003:
Amsterdam
Barcelona
Malaga
Milan - Bergamo
Nice
Palma
Flights will commence in February with all six destinations being fully served by Easter. You will be able to book flights in early December.
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
fax
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Thu Nov 14, 2002 4:28 am

Excellent news!!! No longer will I need to go scufferjet from John Lennon to PMI to see my Mom!!

I do hope they are fog trained though...pea souper tonight here in Halifax!
 
lapper
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Thu Nov 14, 2002 4:31 am

This is another airline that Channel Express will be operating for. Not sure how long that contract is for though.
 
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Crosswind
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Thu Nov 14, 2002 5:08 am

Lapper,
Jet2 IS Channel Express. They are using Jet2 as the brand for their low-cost operations, which will be flown alongside their contract work for other airlines.

Their website is up and running at:
http://www.jet2.com

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
LBA
Topic Author
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Thu Nov 14, 2002 6:10 pm

The guy from Jet2 was on local news last night. They will start with flights to Amsterdam in February 2003 before rolling out the rest of the routes by May, with one flight per day per destination. Four a/c will be based at LBA, but he indicated one will be on standby most of the time. A further two routes will be announced before start up in Feb. Cheapest fares will be about £20 each way plus taxes.
 
EGNM-LBA
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:01 pm

Amsterdam will be twice daily from Feb-12th with each of the other routes becoming at least once daily by Easter. Bookings will be able to be made from 4th December onwards.

Intended utilisation is 4 x B737-300 with 3 return sectors per day - 12 return flights in total. Given you could feasibly fit 4 return sectors per day from each aircarft - 16 in total. This means they will be left with 4 spare return sectors, hence the comment that theoretically, one a/c will be spare.

At present, 2 daily x sectors to AMS + 1 each to Barcelona, Milan, Malaga, Palma and Nice gives them 7 daily sectors in total. With 5 daily sectors spare, it is unsurprising that more routes are due to be announed soon.

EGNM


 
Leezyjet
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:05 pm

This is fantastic news for LBA. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to realise it's potential for a low cost airline, suprised Bmi Baby didn't start services there actually.

Looking forward to seeing those 733's parked on the ramp, just hope their pilots are used to high winds and fog !!.

Is Servisair or Aviance handling them ?.

LBA just needs to sort out their issues with coaching pax to a/c now they will have all these extra flights that no boubt will be parked further away from the building. It's not pleasent walking out to an a/c in that wind and rain, even if it is right outside the door !, I think some more coaches should be ordered - 3 ain't going to be enough now.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
LBA
Topic Author
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:22 pm

Interesting you mention BMIbaby. BMI appear to have reduced their fares on the LHR route. Day return to London first flight out last flight back Saturday before Xmas £41.00 inc taxes!
 
Rick767
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:33 pm

"just hope their pilots are used to high winds and fog !!"

I was up at LBA once this Summer in the 757. Not too windy thankfully on the day in question. They could be doing with getting rid of the short 09/27 runway and extending the apron a bit to allow better stand / parking configuration I think. It's a bit tight at the moment, especially when you have 4 new based jets arriving soon. Not much room for expansion.

A taxiway all the way to the 32 threshold wouldn't go amiss either. The Captain I flew up there with showed his age as we taxied out on Delta towards 32 by saying "I remember when this used to be a runway!". Had to laugh...
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
EGNM-LBA
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Sat Nov 16, 2002 1:39 am

Rick - depending on who you talk to, there are some infrastructural improvements in the pipeline along the lines you suggest.

The main thing to sort out though is the CAT3 ILS on 32. The rapidly rising ground in the undershoot results in the need for a big displaced threshold which in turn results in the touchdown zone being at the start of the downslope on the runway. Not really a problem for hands-on landings, but on auto-lands a/c tend to 'float' down the runway. The result is that the likes of Britannia and bmi won't accept any tailwind compenent for CAT2/3 approaches and a number of unncecessary diversions occur as a result.
 
Rick767
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Sat Nov 16, 2002 1:46 am

Heard the Fokkers can't autoland on 32, or was that just the F50s? How does the Airbus handle it?

Sure gets foggy up on that hill in the winter so such issues need addressing I suppose. There's no CATII/III on R/W14 to save your a** if 32 has even a slight tailwind. Off to Manchester it is then....
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
fax
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Sat Nov 16, 2002 5:01 am

scariest landing I ever had was at LBA (much as I love flying from there- its a great airport!!).

Lets just say I have been microlighting, ballooning, parascending, you name it I've done it..I don't scare easily, but EGNM-LBA is right with the floating...we floated that far, the AEA pilot had to cram all on and we went past the turning point before we had stopped...try and visualise a November evening with ice and pea soup fog, screaching brakes and swerving to the left...just your average day up at LBA!!!.

To top it all, as if the end of the runway wasn't slap bang in front of us before we stopped.....lets just say it was a bit wiffy when we hit the airgate!

Leeds bradford Airport, you've got to love it!

Fax
 
Leezyjet
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Sat Nov 16, 2002 5:46 am

I remember when I was young, we were in a BY 732 that was landing in a thunderstorm. (This was in the days before the extension opened.), we were all over the place on the approach and slammed down hard. There was so much spray coming out that you couldn't see anything out of the windows. Inside that aircraft it was silent, until my dad shouts out at the top of his voice "Don't worry, there is a cemetry at the end of the runway !". How embarrased was I !!. When we finally came to a stop, everyone started to clap (it was a charter after all  Smile )

I love riding into LBA on the Jseat. When I used to work for Bmi and fly home, I used to try and get in as much as possible. Those LBA pilots really slam them a/c down and use full brakes to stop intime for the last turnoff onto the apron, without having to go all the way to the loop. Leaves you hanging in the harness - great fun  Big thumbs up

I used to hate working there sometimes though, especially in the winter. The should re-name it Leeds/Bradford International Coach Station in the winter months !!.

Remember once seeing a Jersey European SH360 hovering above the airport. It took off on 27 and was airborne before it got level with the terminal building. It shot up to about 300ft and just sat there, the wind was so strong that we coached the pax to the a/c and had to bring the coach in at right angles to the a/c so the door was right next to the steps. Myself and my supervisor had to physically hold every passenger by both arms to aid them to stand upright to board the a/c, I've never skydived but after that day I can imagine what it feels like and we didn't even leave the ground !!. When it was airborne, it must have taken about 5-10 mins to clear the airfield boundry. Everyone was out on the ramp watching it, the Fire service were ready to just incase. I'll never forget that one  Wow! .

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
EGNM-LBA
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Sat Nov 16, 2002 7:42 am

There certainly can be some interesting moments from time to time - the Challenger that dropped a wing during a landing on 14 last year springs to mind.

In general though, the effect of the weather is over-hyped. In 2001 LBA had 103 diversions out to other airports and 14,200 successful landings (+ the private & club stuff). We also had 49 inbound diversions from other fields.

The largest number of outbound diversions from a UK airport was at Bristol with 161. With its higher number of movements, this puts the rate of diversions at about the same as LBA (1 for every 140).

With additional landing distance on 32, LBA diversions coiuld feasibly be as low as 20-50 per annum, being the odd occasions when the viz is consistently below 300m (CAT2 minima) or those days when the wind reads '230 25 GUSTING 45'

EGNM
 
gkirk
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:23 am

What about the L1011 that went off the runway at LBA? Anyone have any memories of that?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Rick767
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:30 am

GKirk,

Though I was merely a boy, our neighbour (with whom we are still good family friends) was LBA Airport Managing Director (or assistant director?) at the time, and was standing on the apron at the time of the incident, sheltering from the rain under the wing of some turboprop which was being inspected due to some technical issue.

He tells a great story about the whole event... not sure what he's up to these days actually, does airport consulting all over the world I think. His daughter is now an ATCO in the tower @ LBA though.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
gkirk
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:41 am

Should have diverted the L1011 to a decent airport like Carlisle  Laugh out loud
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
fax
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Sat Nov 16, 2002 11:42 pm

EGNM-LBA

What's the likelihood of the runway being extended? I've heard lots of rumours but nothing concrete (pardon the pun!!)

Fax
 
Rick767
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Sun Nov 17, 2002 12:55 am

I don't think they can extend it much, if recollection serves me correctly there is a big drop and a road off the 14 end and just a big drop off the 32 end!
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
EGNM-LBA
Posts: 144
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Sun Nov 17, 2002 5:58 am

Extensions at both ends are technically feasible. Yes the land does fall away at both ends and some land fill would be necessary. The last few hundred metres of 14 and the entire Eastern apron are built on land-fills so it is possible.

A clue as to how high the land would need to be built up is provided by the approach lights, which sit in the undershoots on large metal poles in order to bring them up to runway elevation. Effectively the land would need to be built up to that height before concrete could be laid.

An extension at the 32 end is unlikely due to the greater amount of land-fill and the proximity of the houses. The 14 end has a more shallow drop-off and has no homes within miles so this is the likely end in my opinion - don't think it will be soon though.
 
fax
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:23 pm

thanks for the info!
 
gkirk
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Mon Nov 18, 2002 6:26 am

Whats the point of runway extension when MAN is so near?!?
None....exactly  Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
EGNM-LBA
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Mon Nov 18, 2002 7:23 am

GKirk - LBA and MAN are competing airports, owned and operated independantly each other. Each airport will therefore do what it can to win passengers from the other. If LBA believe that a runway extension will encourage more operators to serve the Yorkshire market from LBA as opposed to from MAN, or will encourage low-cost operators to come and compete with MAN, then why would'nt they do it?
 
David_itl
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Mon Nov 18, 2002 8:06 am


Agree with EGNM, though all I can say is that each new low-cost base is offering a number of destinations that are the same as rival "low-cost" airports which I anticipate creating problems in the long-term as all these services will do is pinch passengers from each other, with MAN, LHR & LGW being the only airports that will be of benefit to the business passenger due to the greater choice of destinations available.

In fact, didn't LBA did welcome the 2nd runway at MAN as being beneficial to the North of the country? Our runway will help with the aim of creating "hubs" for both oneworld and Star Alliance; some of the services that are run daily need to be have a 2nd service, with long-haul services retimed so that there is a greater amount of transfer traffic generated. At the moment, I can't see the need for any more low-cost operations at MAN beyond Monarch, though one couldn't really classify them as being in that sector.

LBA should they proceed with their runway plans ought to be able to generate a largish increase in charter traffic..bigger aircraft? more long-haul flights? Jet2's problem may lie in the "unknown" factor given that buzz, Ryanair & easyJet have been around a lot longer so they would have enhanced brand recognition.

David
 
BHXviscount
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:18 am

David, MAN,LHR & LGW being the only airports that will be of benifit to the business passenger due to the greater choice of destinations available
yet again you seem to have neglected BHX(deliberate??) BHX has alot of business travellers and when we get our second runway will do battle with MAN and give you run for your money! never catch MAN on PAX numbers though
No officer, its NOT a surface to air missile its a camera..for taking photographs.
 
Leezyjet
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:40 am

GKirk,

I actually sent off for the accident report for that L10-11 from the AAIB earlier this year, never realised that it was G-BBAI until I got the report. I wish I had known in 1994-1996 when I was working at MAN, as I dispatched the a/c many times whilst it was flying for Caledonian Airways.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Johan Ljungdahl



My sister saw it land and drove round to the other side of the airport and has photographs of the passengers coming down the chutes. I was about 8 at the time, and got taken up to see it later in the afternoon on the day of the accident.

I have a photo of it parked on the ramp whilst it was being fixed.

We need more LBA pic's on here. I have hundreds back home in Leeds, but I haven't managed to get any of my pic's that I have tried to upload accepted for some reason.  Sad

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Thu Nov 21, 2002 8:19 pm

I think the most memorable part of the report into the L1011 excursion at EGNM was the penultimate comment made by the captain.
As the engines can be heard spooling down in the background; already late hme, he was heard to despairingly say,
.
"Well that just about makes my f*****g day!!!"  Big thumbs up
.

Didn't an Iberia A300 do the same at Leeds around the same time too, or is it my oldtimers disease plying tricks again ?

Shamu
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
David_itl
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Thu Nov 21, 2002 8:38 pm


Shamu, perhaps you're thinking of the incident at BRS in 1984ish? Twas operating an Aviaco charter I believe.

Developed your "Seth Efriken" accent yet?

David
 
Leezyjet
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RE: No Frills From LBA

Fri Nov 22, 2002 1:45 am

Blueshamu330's

"Well that just about makes my f*****g day!!!"

I don't remember reading that bit in the AAIB report !!.  Smile

Just after they touched down and applied the reverser's, he did comment that "Gosh the red lights come quickly here don't they".

I'd always thought that the a/c had landed too far down the runway, but after reading the report, turns out that the method used for working out the braking actions was incorrect so the brake performance data was all wrong so the brakes did not work as effectively as expected, that combined with the condition of the runway surface at the time.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"