flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

Egypt Air - Suicide?

Tue Nov 02, 1999 7:14 am

Today I talked with numerous airplanes nuts and pilots at school. By putting what we knew together, it seems like the pilot(s)/crew commiting suicide together could be a viable cause. What do you think?
 
Buff
Posts: 1066
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:29 pm

RE: Egypt Air - Unnecessary Speculation

Tue Nov 02, 1999 7:42 am

Why speculate? You are possibly accusing the pilot(s) of a horrific crime.

Anything could have happened, from what you suggest to a hijacking gone terribly wrong, to a missile (for you conspiracy fans), to a meteor/re-entering satellite. Anything.

I don't think it is right or proper to be making idle speculations. Many people have died; many more friends and relatives are grieving their loss. How about we leave the speculation for a couple of weeks, maybe?

Just my opinion. Godspeed and salvation to those who died.

Best Regards,

Buff
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Egypt Air - Unnecessary Speculation

Tue Nov 02, 1999 8:03 am

Sorry about that. I didn't mean any harm. We spent a great deal of time talking about it and believe that if the information we are being fed is correct that this could be a possibility. Best of wishes to the family and all of those connected with this tragedy.
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: Egypt Air - Unnecessary Speculation

Tue Nov 02, 1999 8:08 am

I dont know what could have happened on that plane. The EgyptAir 767 that crashed was built RIGHT after the Lauda Air 767 that crashed in 1991... a coincidence? possibly... could a thrust reverser have been deployed at 33,000 feet, causing the crew to lose control of the plane? i dont know.
 
Buff
Posts: 1066
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:29 pm

RE: Egypt Air - Suicide?

Tue Nov 02, 1999 9:37 am

I apologize for my tone, Fly15. Guess I'm just a little weary of all the death in the skies we've all witnessed in the last year.

Best Regards,

Buff
 
hmmmm...
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:32 am

The Search For The Cause

Tue Nov 02, 1999 10:26 am

My intuition is that this accident will lead to the thrust reversers. The Egypt Air 767 loss seems to have the same signature characteristics as the Lauda Air 767 loss. My understanding is that the FAA has no power to force their directives upon airlines outside the U.S. So while U.S. 767s may have had this problem addressed by the safety directive to have locks installed on the thrust reversers, there is no guarantee that foreign airlines have followed suit. As such, there is no way of preventing the Lauda Air phenomenon from occuring again. With so many 767s flying the globe, and eight years since the Lauda Air loss, the science of probability makes a second incident a certainty. Unless new information surfaces to suggest otherwise, it's probably the best explanation at this point for what happened. However, don't hold your breath for the NTSB to find the definitive cause on this one. It could take months before they even float any theories around. It could take years before they state a cause. Or, like TWA 800, they may never have a definitive answer. I sympathize with those guys at the NTSB. The last few years have fed them one tough nut after another. Pretty soon their unsolved file is going to be bigger than their solved file. In that light, you might as well let the speculation fly. That is what the Internet is for - exchanging ideas. That's why we are here. The only ones who should not speculate are the authorities. The flying public, on the otherhand, is not only entitled to share ideas on current events, but is obligated to do so by a social contract to which each of us is party, namely to always be diligent and thorough in seeking answers to questions that concern us as a society, remembering that official statements from governing bodies must be edited with political, financial, and legal reasons in mind. The only caution we must exhibit in this diligence is to always juxtapose our ideas, and those of others, against those of the authorities, and our own common sense, so as not to lose perspective in our search for the truth. The total truth is usually somewhere inbetween.
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
AC_A340
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:01 pm

RE: The Search For The Cause

Tue Nov 02, 1999 11:21 am

ABC news has put together a piece. They brought up the Lauda 767 incident and how close the planes were off the assembly line. Bravo! And according to ABC who said Egypt Air said that the reverse thrust problem was fixed.
 
Transtar
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 1999 5:51 am

RE: Egypt Air - Suicide?

Tue Nov 02, 1999 12:23 pm

There are haunting simularities between the Lauda and Egypt Air Aircraft. The Lauda aircraft disappeared from radar with no radio transmitted distress calls, no warning. It was later found that the aircraft went into an uncontrolled spin less than 10-20 seconds after the thrust reverser activated.

Previously, Boeing had simulated that when the thrust reverser would activate on one side of the aircraft, that the pilot would have time to compensate and shut down the malfunctioning engine. In practice, it found out that once the engine was idled by the captain as the natural response to a thrust reverser activation, there was insufficient thrust to maintain lift and the aircraft went into an uncontrollable spin in which the horizontal and vertical stabilizers ripped off due to the strain on the control services. The aircraft ripped apart and fell onto Thai fields.

It is impossible for now to determine the cause of the Egypt Air crash, but since noone in either another aircraft, a boat, or along the coast reported seeing an explosion, it is less likely that a bomb or fuel tank explosion was the cause, although this of course is no means an explanation.

We probably won't know for quite some time what actually happened.

I duly hope that it is not that thrust reverser problem again. So many airlines are now dependent on two engine aircraft like the 767. I know how the media and the public get hysteric over such matters, even when the chances of incidents like this is very, very rare. Remember how AA's mishandling of its engine reattachments and subsequent Chicago crash of a DC-10-10 hurt the DC-10 program?
 
Guest

Silk Air Info Request

Tue Nov 02, 1999 12:40 pm

The co-pilot of the silk-air crash that is believed to be suicide was australian. I am sure he did not just sit there while the pilot crashed the plane, same for the co-pilot or pilot on egyptair. What happened?
 
pilot21
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 8:28 am

RE: Egypt Air - Suicide?

Tue Nov 02, 1999 7:34 pm

While I'm not going to comment on the theory of suicide, I am going to say that it is one big mystery at the moment. As far as I can gather, the transponder was still working up until the aircraft neared the water, which means that there was still power being fed to the plane, which means, I feel, no explosion. In the Pan-am explosion in 1988, the radar controller, said the aircraft disappeared from his screen and all he got for about two minutes was small unidentified returns from the various parts of the aircraft falling to earth. In this case the aircraft remained intact, so why was there no comment from the crew??, there would have been time, even if they were fighting to regain control of the aircraft surely, the PSA B727 that crashed in the 70's after hitting a light aircraft was able to transmit a mayday and that plane was on finals to the runway??,
My gut feeling was that something happened in that cockpit, and our only hope for finding out what, is hopefully contained on the cockpit voice recorder.
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
Guest

RE: Egypt Air - Suicide?

Tue Nov 02, 1999 8:17 pm


Back then when the Lauda Air 767 crashed, the pilots got indications way ahead that the reverser could deploy...Which it did, the plane winged over and crashed. If this is the case with Egypt Air.. I suggest the following line to be added in the flight-handbook.

"In case of suspection of in-flight reversal, Shut the bloody engine down right away, and check for malfunction causes later."
 
Sasha
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:26 am

Navigation Interferred?

Tue Nov 02, 1999 9:35 pm

In opinion poll in BBCNews site, there's a woman who sez in her message that she recently flew EgyptAir and that they weren't enforcing limitations on mobile phones usage and stuff for landing and take offs.

Could anything like that cause, say, radio communication problems that crew wouldn't be able to make a distress call... if not cause a crash??

Hmm...
An2/24/28,Yak42,Tu154/134,IL18/62/96,B737/757/767,A310/320/319,F100,BAe146,EMB-145,CRJ,A340-600,B747-400,A-330-300,A-340
 
SuperSonic
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:11 pm

RE: Egypt Air - Unnecessary Speculation

Tue Nov 02, 1999 9:55 pm

That is the first thing that I thought of when I heard about this tragedy, but I have heard the aircraft concerned underwent modifications to the Thrust Reverser System (TRS). Under the mod, a new test/reverser system is added, a thrust reverser deploy pressure switch and new electric wiring from the electronics bay and flightdeck to the engine strut. These are just some of the mods that should have taken place in accordance with the Boeing Service Bulletin (BSB) produced in 1991 (I think that is the date?). I don't know if Egyptair undertook all the mods.
If I am wrong and the mods wern't put in place, the aircraft and pax throughout the past 9 years had been put jeapardy. If this is so, it is not wrong to speculate that this may have been the cause, according to the radar reports so far.

 
Dasheighty
Posts: 304
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 1:54 pm

RE: Egypt Air - Suicide?

Wed Nov 03, 1999 2:02 pm

I doubt highly that such an instance would occur. I think than in this case It was a case of man and machine locked in mortal combat with nither the victor. The incdent is somewhat errie however whith this being the third wide body Aircraft to simply "Fall from the sky" in this fashion. Whats wrong with this picture?
 
F-WWKH
Posts: 309
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 1999 8:23 pm

RE: Egypt Air

Wed Nov 03, 1999 9:18 pm

Just a small correction:
The Lauda Air was built after the Egypt Air, not the other way round.

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