B-HXB
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Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 7:00 am

The South China Morning Post reports:

"In a long-awaited move, Cathay Pacific yesterday said it would begin direct flights from Hong Kong to New York as soon as April.
Hong Kong's flag carrier would inaugurate the direct service to America's finance centre shortly after it took delivery of three A340-600 aircraft from Airbus Industries, chief executive David Turnbull said at the Association of Asia Pacific Airlines' conference.

The route, which flies over the polar regions rather than across North America, is the longest in the world and can only be flown non-stop by a new generation of long-haul jets, including the new wide-body A340-600."


The article seems to imply that CX will deploy the A340-600 for this route. If I recall correctly, the route was originally planned to be operated by an A340-300 but that was pulled after the September 11 attacks, presumably due to concerns over commercial viability.

Has the market improved that much? How frequent can CX afford to go on this service?
 
AA 777
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 7:14 am

Sweet CX A340-600's at JFK

AA 777
Matt
CRJ-700 FO
 
Rai
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 7:22 am

The NYC-Asia market is quite strong. Even after 9/11, there hasn't been so many service reductions as there has been to Europe. I flew to Seoul this summer and had a lot of difficulty finding a seat!

NYC-Hong Kong? CO already operates a flight to there. They recently upgraded the frequency to daily, so things must be going well on that front. Can NYC handle another NYC-HKG service? I don't know. There is a huge Chinese population here, but most people of Chinese decent in the area have roots from Taiwan and China, rather than Hong Kong.

Deploying the A346 (does it even have the range for a full payload?) seems a bit optimistic, but I don't think a company like CX would make any rash decisions, especially in today's environment. I thought they were using those planes to London, Sydney and Toronto?

On a side note, I took UAL's nonstop flight from JFK-HKG last summer. That flight was cancelled because the 744 couldn't run a full payload that distance. It also didn't help that UAL had minimal presence at JFK to begin with.
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 7:36 am

United operated a 747-400 from JFK to HKG from April 2001 to August 2001 and then axed the route. It wasn't heavily promoted at all, the 747-400 had payload restrictions on the route and it was downgraded to a 777 before it was axed.

ContinentalEWR
 
Spaceman
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 7:51 am

CX A340-600 would be able to fly NYC-Hkg under full load, since it only configures it's A340-600 with 286 seats, which is well under the limit of 380 seats. I would assume that there will be plenty pay load left for cargo service. They should order more A340-600 for flights to Canada too.
 
gigneil
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 8:18 am

They'll be able to have a higher load factor for the route than CO, I'm pretty sure, since CO's 777s that fly the route aren't the highest MTOW available, as well.

N
 
B-HOP
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:58 am

My dad's childhood mate in New York and he said the HK/Cantonese community here are quite sizable. I think cathay did not buy those 346 outright is because they want a better verison (the one EK is discussing with Airbus at present), they remembered the 340-311 story well, where 343 was vastly upgraded to 343X after just a few years.

Regards
Kev
Live life to max!!!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 10:19 am

Why is it that everyone often seems to forget that while JFK/EWR-HKG are the longest ROUNDTRIP flights currently/formerly operated.... SA's eastbound segment from ATL-JNB is actually the longest flight in the world?????
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 10:20 am

.... not to mention the fact that ATL-CPT is also longer than NYC-HKG as well.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
kdonohue
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 10:49 am

You know what I find interesting about this article? Is how people, especialy the media, misuse the term "direct" flight. In this article, they make reference to this being a direct flight twice. Cathay already has direct service to JFK via YVR.

A direct flight, if I am not mistaken, is not non-stop, but rather one where there isn't a change in aircraft. Some travellers not used to flying, may be surprised that thier "direct" flight is not a non-stop one as they may have thought.

Just my thoughts.

 
Max Q
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:09 pm

Gigneil

Not sure what you mean about 'load factor', but our 777's can easily carry a full load from EWR-HKG plus cargo.

Our max gross take off weight is not quite the maximum available but so what?
we don't fly any longer routes so why pay extra for a capability you don't need.

Actually, Co had looked at uprating the engines and raising the max t'o weight but found it uneconomical.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
gigneil
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:17 pm

Max Q-

Really? I find that interesting since a lot of UA's problem with the 744 from JFK-HKG was the unbelievable payload restrictions (I think I read in this forum somewhere that it was limited to 200 pax and not much cargo?).

How many pax total does CO carry on the route?

N
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:40 pm

Just a note that UA did not downgrade the service NY-HKG service to a 777. UA has NEVER flown scheduled services to HKG with a 777. I wish they did though!!
 
prosa
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 2:53 pm

NYC-Hong Kong? CO already operates a flight to there.

I saw a funny sign on Sixth Avenue this afternoon advertising CO's EWR-HKG service:
King Street
to
Hong Kong
Nonstop


I must have been out of it after a long week at work, it was several seconds before I "got" it!
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 4:44 pm

you what? .
 
gigneil
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 4:52 pm

I don't get it.  Sad

N
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 11:49 pm

"KING KONG"

Continental's ads in NYC are ubiquitous and sometimes annoying. They adorn everything from taxicab roof tops to buses, phone booths, subway posters, and so forth.

Others include "AVENUE C TO ORANGE COUNTY. NONSTOP" and "YO TO ALOHA, NONSTOP", "POST NO BILLS TO CONGRESS, NONSTOP" and one of my favorites, "WANT TO SEE THE WORLD? WE'RE SELLING TICKETS".

Continental is the biggest airline in the New York Area market, with 350 daily departures from Newark Liberty International Airport, the carrier's second biggest US hub. It also flies from LaGuardia, JFK, White Plains/Westchester County Airport.

ContinentalEWR
 
N503JB
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sat Nov 16, 2002 11:54 pm

I agree with Max Q!!!!!

The reason is right as what he said. I worked for Dragon Air (HIAS) and operated the CO B777-200ER HKG/EWR load Master. The B777 can carry full passenger load and around 4-6 tons of cargo. However, the MTOW will be depend on Runway in using, Temperature and QNH. I can't understand why the UAL B747-400 have that unbelievable payload restrictions????

jetBlue Airways
N503JB
HKIA Ramp Spotters
 
Max Q
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sun Nov 17, 2002 1:45 am

The 747-400 is beyond the limits of it's full payload range on the EWR-HKG route, so, not only does it have to carry a full load of fuel, whereas CO with it's 777's does not even have to fill the tanks, but it also has to reduce it's payload to lower the fuel burn sufficiently to make it non-stop.

Notwithstanding that the 747-400 is still the queen of the skies, it's uneconomic on this route.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sun Nov 17, 2002 2:10 am

MaxQ,

What's your source on CO being able to run a full load on said flight? Gordon was specifically quoted as saying that CO's 772ERs are quite heavily restricted on the westbound EWR-HKG segment (due to EWR's "short" runway and that CO's 777s are powered by the relatively weak GE90-90B), but pax yields tend to make up for it.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
BOEING747400
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sun Nov 17, 2002 2:38 am

How long will it take for CX's A346 to fly from HKG-JFK or JFK-HKG non-stop? I doubt that there will be a demand for these flights because the flying time is way too long to be comfortable for most passengers. I think that any flight over 15 hours non-stop is too long for most people so I don't think CX will make much revenue for this route. What does everybody else think? Thanks.
 
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STT757
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sun Nov 17, 2002 3:08 am

EWR's departure runway is 11,000-12,000 ft (I forget exactly), I would think 11,000 (on the shorter end) is long enough.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
blink182
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sun Nov 17, 2002 4:16 am

I am sure this route could make money, but does anybody want to spend 15 hours on an airplane? I'd rather go through LAX or YVR and have a layover so I can get out of a tube for a little bit.

Airlines need to begin to realize that people fly because they have to, not because they want to(with people like us aviation freaks being the exception), and nobody wants to spend 15-16 hours on an airplane. I feel bad for the crews having to operate this flight.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
Rai
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sun Nov 17, 2002 4:22 am

I am sure this route could make money, but does anybody want to spend 15 hours on an airplane? I'd rather go through LAX or YVR and have a layover so I can get out of a tube for a little bit.

Airlines need to begin to realize that people fly because they have to, not because they want to(with people like us aviation freaks being the exception), and nobody wants to spend 15-16 hours on an airplane. I feel bad for the crews having to operate this flight.


I have flown NYC-HKG non-stop before and, yes, it is a long flight! It took us 14h 45min to traverse the route. YVR-HKG is about 13h eastbound (it might be even longer now as my dad flies that route a lot and he says it has taken up to 14 hours, thanks to the A340) and LAX about 14h. It's not THAT huge of a difference.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sun Nov 17, 2002 7:43 am

"EWR's departure runway is 11,000-12,000 ft (I forget exactly), I would think 11,000 (on the shorter end) is long enough."

EWR's longest runway (4L/22R) is 11,000ft long exactly, which is a close call for a flight traveling to Asia. BOS's runway is 'only' 1,000ft longer and off limits to all such flights.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
cch362
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Sun Nov 17, 2002 7:54 am

Some people avoid this route because of the possible health risks from radiation. The exposure on a EWR-HKG flight is equivalent to three chest X-rays, and is highest while flying over the North Pole.

Although passengers do not need to be concerned, except maybe those who travel this route at least once a month, I wonder if the flight crew's health would be affected in the future.
 
Guest

RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Mon Nov 18, 2002 8:58 am

CX HKG-JFK schedule:

CX 822 03.3.30-03.10.25 HKG1015-1405JFK 346 F8C60Y220
CX 823 03.3.30-03.10.25 JFK1550-2010+1HKG 346 F8C60Y220






 
Rai
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Mon Nov 18, 2002 9:04 am

CX HKG-JFK schedule:

CX 822 03.3.30-03.10.25 HKG1015-1405JFK 346 F8C60Y220
CX 823 03.3.30-03.10.25 JFK1550-2010+1HKG 346 F8C60Y220


Wow, so it is true! Where did you get that schedule from, Jim?
 
Rai
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Mon Nov 18, 2002 9:06 am

One more thing! Does this mean that they will stop the HKG-YVR-JFK run? And why aren't they sending the A346's to YYZ? I always thought that CX wanted to make this route non-stop rather than have the technical stop in Alaska.
 
United777
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RE: Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC

Mon Nov 18, 2002 9:18 am

Will Cathay Pacific still fly between Vancouver and JFK???

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