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skippy777
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Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Nov 19, 2002 12:35 am

Inside information has told me that Air Holland will be bankrupt by the end of next week.

There is no money anymore.
No new customers could be found.

More will follow soon.
 
kl713
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Nov 19, 2002 12:55 am

not again....I thought they already had left the building......
732 733 734 73G 738 739 742 743 744 752 763 77E 773 77W 319 320 332 333 343 388 M11 146 DH4
 
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skippy777
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Nov 19, 2002 1:04 am

No, I have been speaking to one of the finacial members and he told me this story. It also has to do with Delsey Airlines. They still have to pay Delsey.

 
Boeing777/747
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Nov 19, 2002 5:04 pm

It would be right that Air Holland go bankrupted in favour of Delsey Airlines.
 
babaero
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Nov 19, 2002 5:23 pm

Remember when they went bankrupt in early 90s with the 3 757 aircraft and single 733.

Guess maybe 3rd time lucky
 
Going64
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Nov 19, 2002 6:27 pm

Why would it be right to go bankrupt in favour of Delsey airlines. Air Holland has no money to pay Delsey so the only thing you achieve is that even more people (200) will loose their jobs. Is that what you journalists are after?
 
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skippy777
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Nov 19, 2002 6:48 pm

@going64

No, that is not what we want.
But if Air Holland pays Delsey, they can restart.

Cees van Doremael played a nice trick and Tony Gram walked straighed into it.

Yes, Tony is not very smart that he ( thoughed) have bought Air Holland.
But atleast 250 people can start working again with VG Airlines.

But a least Delsey made serveral Flights for Air Holland and got paid nothing, not even the shares as promised.




 
Going64
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Nov 19, 2002 7:43 pm

@skippy777
Do you really think that Delsey can make a restart with only the amount that Air Holland owns them? If this would be the case I cannot imagine that there is no other investor willing to invest this amount of money.
The money from Air Holland would only extend the life of Delsey with maybe another 2 weeks so what's the gain?
Regarding the flights they made for Air Holland: in another thread I already referred to the fact that in that period Delsey had no scheduled fligths. The planes were just on the ground. As the lease already started they had to pay the lease terms anyway, flying or not. So (major) part of the debt of Air Holland would have been in their own hands if they would not have been flying for Air Holland!
I agree with the fact that Mr D. is not trustworthy.
 
Air Holland
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:52 pm

Hello all,

Just got an e-mail from Air Holland staff.
The story that Air Holland will be bankrupt by next week is not true.
So mister Andy Smulder of travelquality awards has given us the wrong information.
Air Holland says ''we are flying the stars from heaven" and the story are indiantails.

Best regard, Michel (Air Holland fan)
 
Going64
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Nov 19, 2002 10:46 pm

Looking in the past on a.net I've noticed that travelquality members have 'informed' us several times before about bankruptcy. Please stick to facts and handle rumours in perspective and not as done facts!
 
1stspotter
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:56 am

The fact is that nobody knows the current status of Air Holland for sure so we better close this topic.
 
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skippy777
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:56 am

@ Air Holland

We will see who's Wright, but I will be for sure.
I also liked Air Holland, but they are not very open to the staff.

It's not really nice, I hoped that they would survive.
And yes my name is Andy, like it's in my profile here as well.

Even KLM is trying to help Air Holland but this still won't work.

No rumours but confirmed to me be Financial people from inside Air Holland.
 
1stspotter
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Fri Nov 29, 2002 4:41 am

Hi

Any news on this??
The two B757's of Air Holland are sitting idle on the ramp at Schiphol for a couple of days now. It is an indication of the bankruptcy?

best wishes
Marcel
 
Air Holland
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:59 am

Hello Andy,

Once again you posted wrong information about the situation of Air Holland.
Air Holland will not be bankrupt also they are still flying for Air Gabon with there Boeing 767-300.

On december 14 Air Holland will start flights for Hotelplan Swiss to Banjul and starting from today they wil fly for Goodjet.

Air Holland has also found a dutch investor so they keep flying

So Andy please stop posting false information you disturb there proses to finding investors

Best regards,

Michel van Haarlem and Martijn van Geldere
Air Holland Fanclub and Air Holland VA
 
Going64
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:10 am

I could not agree more.

Peter
 
jwenting
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:33 am

Friday morning and early afternoon, both AH 757s were parked at the far end of Schiphol near the KLM maintenance facility.
There was an airstair parked at one of the aircraft so I guess some activity was going on.
Today (sunday afternoon) one of the aircraft (the one they were working on friday) had gone.
I don't know where, or why.
I wish I were flying
 
sk945
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:42 am

One of Air Hollands B757 flies for Goodjet for the moment. It is used during the weekend to restart the traffic again after that Transair Sweden stoped flying for Goodjet last thursday. Air Holland and Transavia is right now in Stockholm
 
SN-A330
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Mon Dec 09, 2002 4:24 am


@Skippy777

I guess you are unable to give us your sources on this one too, like in the Delsey-restart topic ?

Regards, SN-A330

I would rather be flying...
 
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skippy777
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:47 pm

@ SN-A330 My source came from people who handle the bankruptcy of Delsey Airlines. As I told you with the Thread about Delsey, that investor pulled out because they had to take over all the debts. Well nobody wants to have an airline with all those debts. The investor wasn't a swiss Investor but it came through a Swiss office. The investor was L-Air Holding who wanted to start flying from BRU to the states. I have spoken to Mr Solomon and they are going to obtain a license by thereself and only take over some staff ( maybe )

The story with Air Holland is that the same people from Delsey wanted the money Air Holland still had to pay to Delsey. There was no money so they wanted to fill for bankruptcy for Air Holland. After my post suddenly Air Holland has found money ( no Investor but Money )

They have paid a large amount of the outstanding debts to the Delsey and that was FOR NOW the saving of Air Holland. But there is no solid bases if you get your customers just before you need them. You have to look in the future and I sure hope they will survive but I hold my Breath.

They don't have a plan longer than a couple weeks.
Yes they have a new deal:

On December 14 Air Holland will start flights for Hotelplan Swiss to Banjul.
Cool but what after that !!!!!!!!!

And they say they still fly for Air Gabon, but I have heard Air Gabon started his own operations and the 767 was leased for 8 years. ( quit long I think )

We will see what happens.
 
Going64
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:33 am

@Skipppy777 I think you can in most cases explain your comments; what I would like to see in future is that you will post threads when you're sure about facts and not 'if-then-else-but-they say' type of news. If you look back to all your contributions on a.net you have to admit that you have been quite negative about Air Holland. And yes a lot happened that should not have happened but I guess you can say that for maybe 75% of all airline companies.
Of course we will see what will happen in the near future but it does not help to spread negative rumours unless you like to see the 'blue-family' as the solely airline combination in Holland.
Regards,
Peter
 
Guest

RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Dec 10, 2002 1:38 am

I can't understand why Air Holland changed their colour scheme as they were entering financial difficultly Confused.


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EAC_732
 
LJ
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Dec 10, 2002 5:25 am

So Andy please stop posting false information you disturb there proses to finding investors

100% correct, moreover spreading rumours that airline X will go bankrupt is absolutely "not done" (why do you think everybody replaces the word "will" with "may"?)

BTW according to the slot allocation list the slots for summer 2003 are applied by "Air Holland Leasing III" (thus not "Air Holland" which is currently listed as holder of the slots at AMS). However when I look in the KvK and clicked on "Air Holland Leasing III BV" I'm redirected to a company named "Dutch Colors". My question: is Air Holland planning a name change or is Dutch Colors the company behind the trading name "Air Holland" (like Dutch Bird)?

BTW Peter, don't forget Dutch Bird
 
pressclub
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Dec 10, 2002 9:17 am

I have it very difficult with the fact that Skippy mentions in his CV that he is a journalist... He is certainly not!
 
Spitfire
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Dec 10, 2002 9:28 am

I do have the same feeling Pressclub... Confused
Spitfire
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
 
Going64
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Tue Dec 10, 2002 5:49 pm

@LJ Of course Dutchbird is very welcome to me, but I didn't name them because they're not part of the 'blue-family'. Personally I really like to see companies like HLN and DBR taking a part because small entities are more keen on quality and price-wise interesting. Unfortunately I did not have the chance to fly with DBR (yet).

@EAC_732 The change to a new colour scheme was taken way before the latest financial challenge started and in respect to amounts involved not really a killer bee. Ironic is the fact that the former Brittania 752 (PH-AHT) was the first painted in the new colour scheme but turned out to be a/the problem maker due to the several technical problems it had and therefore forced HLN to lease various planes from other companies to fulfill the charter obilgations.
Furthermore the former colour scheme is already there from the beginning and a fresh look never hurts especially if you look to the fact that their planes are often wet-leased.

@Pressclub I expressed the same opinion before. I guess that I can be called a journalist too because I sometimes (once a year) write a column for our neighbourhood 3-monthly paper  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Peter
 
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skippy777
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Wed Dec 11, 2002 3:25 am

@ pressclub, I am very open and mention my name and email in my user profile. If you don't believe that I am a journalist, bad luck for you and everybody else.

Be a real journalist and mention your name in your user profile.

I have my international NVJ presscard.
I write for magazines and more than once a week.

This information was given by me from the people from Delsey who are involved in working everything out.

Pressclub go to the .....................
You are not a journalist.

Prove it to me and mail me your card, will mail you a copy of my card.

 
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skippy777
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Wed Dec 11, 2002 3:35 am

Anyway LJ, my information was not inaugurated at all. With out the money found after this article was published they would have been bankrupt.

They don't have a lot spare cash anymore and still a lot of bills have to be paid soon.

I hope they will survive, I have flown them more than once and the service is great, but the management is a story on it's own.

Posted by Air Holland

Hello Andy,

Once again you posted wrong information about the situation of Air Holland.
Air Holland will not be bankrupt also they are still flying for Air Gabon with there Boeing 767-300.

On December 14 Air Holland will start flights for Hotelplan Swiss to Banjul and starting from today they wil fly for Goodjet.

Air Holland has also found a Dutch investor so they keep flying

So Andy please stop posting false information you disturb there process to finding investors

Best regards,

Michel van Haarlem and Martijn van Geldere
Air Holland Fanclub and Air Holland VA

This shows that they still are looking for Investors and Michel I know that your speaking the trued, because you are the only person who is doing everything what CEO Cees van Doremael is saying to you and Yes Cees is also a member of this forum. But Cees is to afraid to return my calls and he doesn't like it what I am saying here but if he has to talk about Air Holland Cees is always away and he will return your call when he is back. Well I am still waiting for that call already 3 months. So please don't put the blame on me for this thread.
 
A320-addict
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Wed Dec 11, 2002 3:35 am

He Skippy...,  Yeah sure  Yeah sure  Yeah sure


If only 1 person in Belgium could be called a(n) (aviation-)journalist in Belgium it would certainly be Pressclub, don't even hesitate on that one....


And he.... I thought this was rule number one for journalists:

'Never reveal your sources'




A.A  Big grin  Big grin
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Wed Dec 11, 2002 4:02 am

If only 1 person in Belgium could be called a(n) (aviation-)journalist in Belgium it would certainly be Pressclub, don't even hesitate on that one....

Very true, AA, very true...

/Frederic
 
SN-A330
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Wed Dec 11, 2002 4:12 am


@ Skippy777: you can suppose whatever you want, I don't mind about that, as long as you are very clear about the fact that you don't want to 'sell' it to the users as facts. If you are sure about things (which you obviously aren't), post the facts. If you're not sure, make it clear in your post.

The topic title is a very good example of that: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week should have been Will Air Holland Be Bankrupt By Next Week?. See the difference?

And could you please clarify what you mean by "Reply: 26"? Who's sending mails to who? Thanks.

Regards, SN-A330

I would rather be flying...
 
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skippy777
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Wed Dec 11, 2002 4:12 am

I can mention the source, no problem with that.
I have permission for that........
Desley doesn't like Air Holland a lot if you know what I mean.
It's an open book.

Where is Pressclub a journalist for?
The only thing that I want to say about pressclub is:
"If he is a real journalist, than don't hide those things in your user profile and be open. If I do something wrong everybody will be able to find me."

A real journalist is not affraid to hide his real name and e-mail !!!!!!!

I also know that pressclub has a lot of inside information and that i do believe that he is a journalist, but it's not fair to say that I am not.

You can always mail me pressclub.

end of the story for me.
 
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skippy777
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Wed Dec 11, 2002 4:25 am

@SN-A330.

This was told by me directly by people involved with the bankruptcy of Delsey.
The same people are legally involved with the ending of Delsey. If they tell me this and if Cees van Doremael is not responding to my call so that I can verify that story, it says enough to me. I trust the people involved with the ending of Delsey. Air Holland would have filled for bankruptcy if that new money was not found after I placed this thread. Things have changed after the thread was posted. But you are write it was better to post "Will Air Holland be bankrupt by the end of next week" Now it's a question and I noticed that it was a statement that is the difference.

I looked in reply 26 on your question about mails, but I can't find it.
If you go to reply 25 I only asked Pressclub to send a copy of his Presscard to me and I will do the same to him. Many times Pressclub has suggested that I am not a journalist and I get sick of those things.

Please feel free to do so Pressclub or shut up about that I am not a journalist.
 
A320-addict
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Wed Dec 11, 2002 4:25 am

SN-A330,


I could not agree more with you!!!


AA  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up
 
A320-addict
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Wed Dec 11, 2002 4:34 am

Skippy777,


Count the number of 'IF'-s in your last post.... that says enough for ME!
I certainly don't want to attack you personally but your 'IF'-s are just at
too important places in your post.


AA
 
pressclub
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Fri Dec 13, 2002 10:41 pm

How do you explain, Skippy, that you are a journalist and that at the same time you also have commercial activities for airlines... ????

If I would do that in Belgium, I would loose my presscard immediately.

By the way: many forummembers do know who I am. Isn't it guys?
 
keesje
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Fri Dec 13, 2002 10:52 pm

Press club, no I don't exactly

we had some discussions in the past. You were a bit over-optimistic on VG, SNBA, african routes etc .. in my opinion and you got "evaluation" tickets from some airlines, but did always communicate this (I think).

cheers

PS how is snba doing, loadfactors, revenue's etc ?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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skippy777
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:24 pm

@pressclub

I am a photographer as well so I am allowed to sell my pictures to an airline company. About my work for VG Airlines, I have never published an article about VG. I made some photo's and helped them with some idea's about concepts and catering service. I was never on the paylist for VG. In Holland we are allowed to do so. If I would have publish a very good article, I agree with you. But that is why I never did. The only thing I can say is that the cabin service was very good and that it is very sad to see all those people lose there job twice in a year. Cabin service was always great but on all the other concepts and management idea's it was a big mess.

You can always mail me or call me to explain what I did and do about airline aviation.
 
Guest

RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:43 pm

"Inside information has told me that Air Holland will be bankrupt by the end of next week"

Skippy, if you were a journalist you would have know the meaning of "inside information". In this case, that would have been information from sources at Air Holland. Your information came apperently from Delsey. That's no inside information, it's information from people at Delsey who are frustrated with Air Holland and used you to spread rumours that could harm Air Holland's search for new investors. And the funny thing is, you believed them and let your self be used. What a great journalist you are! Whahahahaha.

 
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Flying Belgian
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:07 am

Sorry to say this SKIPPY777 but you are not a credible guy.

I've closely followed the VG/Delsey case and all you said or even predicted was only b****. You seem to be more a "touch-to-everything" person than a journalist.

BTW, I know who Pressclub is. I can tell you he is a very respected journalist in the Belgian Aviation.

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Sat Dec 14, 2002 3:02 am

BTW, I know who Pressclub is. I can tell you he is a very respected journalist in the Belgian Aviation.

Indeed, I know pressclub, like FB, personally, and he is a real journalist.

BTW: Keesje: can you show me were Pressclub was optimistic about VG? Apparently you saw things I didn't saw, so I would like to read were that Pressclub wrote something optimistic about VG.

@Skippy: show us your official presscard, than the mather will be solved. Put it online somewhere, and give us a link to it.

No need that Pressclub has to do this. You clearly stated above that you know that he is a journalist with lot's of inside information.

/Frederic
 
pressclub
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Sat Dec 14, 2002 3:21 am

Skippy, in articles in the dutch press I read that you have a marketing company named 'Alasta'. What has a marketing company to do with journalism?

@Keesje: I was never optimistic about VG and am neutral towards SNBA and all other airlines...

 
Treg
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Sat Dec 14, 2002 3:31 am

Hey guys! Relax and stop this big personal fight!  Smokin cool

Lets better return to the topic.
Something interesting is happening. You all probably know about the fate of Goodjet, the swedish LCC. The status as Dec 13 is, that they have cancelled all their flights till further notice.

The troubles started 2 weeks ago and after some hectic moments swedish media was reporting about a new investor for Goodjet. Also it was mentioned, that the investor is the same that is behind Air Holland. It seems to be true, as Air Holland planes were used by Goodjet for a while to continue the operations (Transair Sweden pulled its planes after the payments from Goodjet were cancelled). Now Air Holland planes are also gone, Goodjet is without any planes. And yesterday Goodjet bankruptcy procedures were initiated in the city court of Gothenburg....

I wouldn't be so sure about Air Holland either. If the investor is the same, they doesn't look to be in very good shape at the moment...
 
Going64
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:13 am

Let's stop with this topic start a new one about journalism, independency etc etc. as we all know now that Air Holland is still flying and nobody knows about new investors. Finding this topic again and again in the forum index does not help Air Holland!
Is it possible to have a 'slot' here (done by crew members)?
Peter
 
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skippy777
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:33 am

@going64 I agree with you.

People who want to see my work as a journalist please check this:

http://www.tourjour.nl/PERSBERICHTEN/2000_PERSBERICHTEN/00_04/000901_qep.htm In this one I was not amused about KLM, while I also work with KLM so this shows my independence

and you can also read this:

http://www.nieuwsbank.nl/inp/2001/12/23/E002.htm

That is a part of my work as a journalist.

Please close this topic as it is not relevant anymore
 
LJ
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:57 am

I wouldn't be so sure about Air Holland either. If the investor is the same, they doesn't look to be in very good shape at the moment...

I'm not sure that the investor behind Goodjet is the same as the investor behind Air Holland. A quick search doesn't reveal any direct link between the socalled Dutch company MCI and the owner of Air Holland (Dorbeco BV, allthough this company is just a holding company of one or more individuals). Furthermore, I couldn't find any company with the name MCI located near any of Dorbeco BV or its subsidiaries.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:10 am

Andy, aren't you more someone who evaluates airlines?

I never saw an article of Pressclub about which business class he found the best...

I mean, isn't the job of a journalist to report facts from a point of view as objectif as possible?

I find that the info displayed in the two links you showed there is very subjective. Lot's of people will not agree with you. The meal aboard the Emirates flight that you found very tasty, will maybe be disliked by the passenger sitting behind you. For an objective evaluation, don't you have to be with several people checking the business class of the airline? Can you, with an experience of 2? business class flights on each airline say that KLM his business class is average and the one of LH good? You need to evaluate the airline several times, with several people. Did you look at your own social status in comparision with the one of other passengers? What is the social status of the other passengers? Did you make a survey about this? How did you make this survey? How did you choose the people that coöperated in it? Did you take the fact that also they can make mistakes in consideration? What do you expect from an airline? How is this in comparision with other passengers? Did you make a survey with frequent fliers of the airline? Look, in my books of methodology is clearly written that the kind of investigation like you describe it cannot be used to take general conclusions. Therefore you took not enough points into consideration.

Do you work for the 'real' press?

And it makes no sense to close this topic. It's time to talk about this for the final time, because if the topic is closed now, the discussion will start again in the next topic...

/Frederic
 
Treg
Posts: 488
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:20 am

I'm not sure that the investor behind Goodjet is the same as the investor behind Air Holland. A quick search doesn't reveal any direct link between the socalled Dutch company MCI and the owner of Air Holland (Dorbeco BV, allthough this company is just a holding company of one or more individuals). Furthermore, I couldn't find any company with the name MCI located near any of Dorbeco BV or its subsidiaries.

There is a connection. But not via Dorbeco but Standard Finance International S.A. http://www.sfi.lu/. SFI has interests in Air Holland and in Maaspoort Capital Investment Group B.V. (also known as MCI), the mysterious investor behind the "new" Goodjet.

But seems that this is one really complex ownership-partnership-investment scheme and I am very pessimistic about Goodjet's future. Let's hope that Air Holland has better fait...
 
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skippy777
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RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Sat Dec 14, 2002 6:38 pm

Hi fredric,

We test flights with different people. A new setup is being created right now.
We will setup a travelteam, that can judge the flights with the comparison's of a special check list with over 300 questions. Now we fly with 5 people and hopefully we will have over 1.000 Frequent Flyers reporting the check list back to us. Our site will soon be joined by another major one and the setup will be great. Can't tell you much on that one right now but hope that the new site will be online in the first week of January.

All the flights in the report are judged as well with that same list, so we have checked all the options. About the food, we looked for choice of Food, Quality of the food, Appearance of the food, Temperature of the food, Enjoyment of the food, Selection of the wines, Quality of the wine, Presentation/attractiveness of the plates. trays etc etc, If you received your first Choice, making it possible to eat or drink when you wanted, how the food was served any many more items. So not only the taste was important.

The same was done with the check in , business lounge, Boarding and Departure, Cabin environment, Seating, Cabin crew, IFE,

If you work with a check list you can very well get a good opinion about the service given by an airline.

If everything is online I will let you now and the frequent flyer can do what they ever wanted and that is to report the quality of an airline.

What do you mean with real press work?
Qep is a large magazine in Holland for the travel industry.
Pressclub is doing another kind of Journalism, but that is not fair to say that I am not doing REAL press work, because every kind of publication is presswork.

Because Pressclub was not amused that VG started and said that it never could work is maybe a pre judgment by a Belgium Journalist.

Written by Pressclub: "I was never optimistic about VG and am neutral towards SNBA and all other airlines"

I am from Holland and stayed neutral towards VG airlines and Freddy van Gaever. I didn't agree with many things, but I still thought that they could have made a good start. I believe the problem in Belgium with the aviation industry is: they don't want any competition with the partners. That is why in Holland even the KLM is maybe not helping Air Holland but they don't fight against Air Holland. If the KLM would say today: we don't want Air Holland to fly then Air Holland is finished and Dutchbird as well. Because KLM will offer such low prices with Martinair and Transavia that the other two can't keep up.

When Freddy started VG it took such a long time before he got his AOC. I liked they way Freddy it did and that showed that he got balls. Not very diplomatic how he did it, but the way he did was great. As soon as the friend from the government joined VG Airlines: read Freddy van Dijck, the AOC was in within a couple of days. Many researches have unveiled that Belgium is a very corrupt country. You all should be proud that a government in Belgium is being able to make sure that VG airlines never had the change to make a good start. It was better to put lots of money into Sabena and make sure that friends of the government got good positions within Sabena.

I also believe that the journalism in Belgium should have reported different about VG, and that Pressclub could have stayed neutral against VG as well.

I still hope that Air Holland will survive because a bit of competition is great.
I hope they Belgium people will have the same attitude as the Dutch in the future and that they have learned from Sabena and VG Airlines. No competition means higher prices.
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Sat Dec 14, 2002 8:25 pm

Thanks for your explanations Andy.

/Frederic
 
Air Holland
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 6:51 pm

RE: Air Holland Will Be Bankrupt By Next Week

Wed Dec 25, 2002 10:33 pm

Dear Andy,

I think you must stop putting anny post about Air Holland on this forum and the travel quality aword form beacourse the information you post is not correct.

As a journalist you have to dubble check your sources an not putting rumours on this and the travel quality.com
You do a lot of damage with posting this rumours and it does not help Air Holland's search for new investors

For example on the forum of travel quality.com you said this.

*****The information came from the people involved with the bankruptcy of Delsey Airlines. A person told me that Air Holland had no money anymore to pay Delsey Airlines. Three days after my post they have paid a part of the money that they had to pay to Delsey. They might still have found a investor than. But Still I don't think Air Holland will keep on flying. There is no solid ground to operate an airline. I always liked Air Holland and still don't hope that they stop flying. As for Air Gabon, they will start flying under there own name soon as the aircraft has already been painted in BRU in Full Air Gabon Colours. I now you are close with Cees, but he should give me a phone call back when I ask for that. I wanted to verify the information but than Cees can't be found. I hope solid bases will be found soon and tell Cees that I even want to help Air Holland in making a promotional DvD for Air Holland.*******

About the aircraft of Air Gabon that is not the aircraft of Air Holland who is painted in the Air Gabon colours but a other aircraft.
The B767-300 of Air Holland is returnd to ams and a B757-200 is now flying for Air Gabon.

Also the point about that Air Holland has no solid ground to operate an airline is ridiculous
These days no airline has a solid ground to operate day by day airlines get bankrupt

***This shows that they still are looking for Investors and Michel I know that your speaking the trued, because you are the only person who is doing everything what CEO Cees van Doremael is saying to you and Yes Cees is also a member of this forum. But Cees is to afraid to return my calls and he doesn't like it what I am saying here but if he has to talk about Air Holland Cees is always away and he will return your call when he is back. Well I am still waiting for that call already 3 months. So please don't put the blame on me for this thread.*****

Also this is not true Andy I do not do evertything what CEO Cees van Dormael says and i`am not close with him and i never have talk personely with him.
The things i posted is from info i have received of staff of Air Holland and not from Cees van Dormael in matter of fact i also work indirect for Air Holland so i know were i`am talking about and they are no rumours i`am posting

On januari 10 i have a meeting with C van Dormael and C.Runge about the Air Holland Fanclub and whe hope then to have more information about the plans of Air Holland

The website of the Air Holland Fanclub can be found on
http://members.lycos.nl/airhollandfanclub/home.htm

And the website of the Air Holland Virtural Airlines can be found on
http://members.lycos.nl/airhollandva/

These websites are stil under constuction

So Andy STOP putting rumours about Air Holland on this and the travel Quality.com forum
The only thing you do is harming Air Holland's search for new investors
And if you want to post anything about Air Holland just dubble check your sourses if they are true.

Best reagards.

Michel van Haarlem and Martijn van Geldere
Air Holland Fanclub and Air Holland VA

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