qantas777
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2000 7:52 am

BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 4:30 am

If you know, what are BA's Asia destinations served from LHR/LGW?

thanks.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 4:36 am

Basically all of them. Except Yangon. I don't think they've flown there since the late 60s.

Hope this helps.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
qantas744
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RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 5:06 am

And KUL, they pulled out of Kuala Lumpur a couple of years ago I think and now cocentrate their SE Asia operations at Singapore.


Matt
you can't buy time but you can sell your soul and the closest thing to heaven is to rock'n'roll
 
Guest

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 5:43 am

All Asian flights depart/arrive LHR.

Destinations:

Tokyo, Beijing, Hong Kong, Manila, Singapore, Jakarta (?), Bangkok, Dhaka, Kolkata, Chennai, Delhi, Mumbai.
 
odie
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:55 am

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 5:54 am

I am afraid that BA's presence in Asia is actually shrinking. After suspending their services into Jakarta in 1999 and Kuala Lumpur in 2000, BA suspended its services into Manila and Taipei as well in 2002. In the Far East, BA only have flights to Tokyo-Narita, Beijing, Hong Kong, Bangkok and Singapore.

I still can't believe that BA would actually drop Kuala Lumpur in favor of Singapore, where it already have 2 daily flights when the flights were suspended. BA could do well on the LHR-KUL-Australia route. Now, MAS is the only option that we have to fly from London to Kuala Lumpur, but it's for the better. The only complain I have is it's really difficult to fly with MAS from London to Kuala Lumpur and people traveling from UK often need to book way in advance for the flights to Kuala Lumpur.
 
United777
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RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 6:45 am

Also BA wants to expand it's flights to South Asia India. It currently flies to Chennai, Mumbai Kolcata and Delhi but is looking at new routes to Hyderabad and Bangalore.

So while BA did suspend may routes to the far east it is seeing a lot of growth in South Asia.

BA suspened Karachi Pakistan I think about a year ago, but I think they will start service to Pakistan again soon.

OdiE - I agree with you I don't know how BA suspened Kuala Lumpur!

 
Guest

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 6:48 am

BA axed Islamabad one year ago, not Karachi.

BA is very keen on flying to Shanghai.
 
CPH-R
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RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 7:06 am

On the Shanghai route, they'll be facing some stiff competition from Virgin, who's been flying the route for a while now. On the other hand, if they do manage to get a Chinese partner into oneworld, it could be a very profitable route.
 
United777
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RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 8:48 am

Thank you Bigo747! I kinda thought it was Islamabad!
 
The Coachman
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RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:04 am

If BA axed LHR-KUL-SYD, then it musn't have been doing well. They had both ends tied up, but unfortunately the airfares out of KUL have to be matched to MH's fixed government fares. The yields were appalling and therefore people flock to book seats because they were cheap. But it loses airlines money. BA couldn't take these cheap fares that are partly a Malaysian government problem, and MH has asked the government if they can increase fares.

BA can't do well until the Malaysian government gets rid of this stupid price ceiling that is far too low for the demand on the route.
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
odie
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Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:55 am

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:52 am

The Coachman:
When BA used to operate into Kuala Lumpur (KL), BA was one of the more expensive carrier to fly from KL to London or Sydney. In fact, SIA was one of the cheapest carrier to fly ex-KL, but yet they are still making profit from Malaysia. In fact, MAS is one of the most expensive carrier to fly ex-KL. There was once where the fixed price agreement was suspended in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 tragedy, and all the airlines started to lower their prices and this had in fact increased the yields of some airline operating into Kuala Lumpur.

From London, MAS' fares are about the same as those offered by Thai, Virgin, SIA and Cathay while KLM, Austrian Airlines and Swiss are a bit more expensive than their Asian counterparts. Emirates, Sri Lankan Airlines, Qatar Airways and Gulf Air are among the cheapest to fly into Kuala Lumpur. In fact, BA do not face many competitions on the LHR-KUL route, other than MAS, but if you are considering Singapore, you have a whole lot of other airlines flying in there that are offering better bargain than BA. SAS, Lufthansa, KLM, Air France, Swiss, Emirates, Gulf Air, Sri Lankan, MAS, Cathay, Thai, Qantas competes with BA, although only Qantas and SIA offer a nonstop service.

Regards.
 
khi747
Posts: 1532
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RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 4:35 pm

Asia also includes the middle East and BA flies to every major city in the Arabian Gulf.
Kuwait
Doha
Bahrain
Jeddah
Riyadh
Dammam (maybe)
Muscat
Dubai
Abu Dhabi
...... BA stopped flying to Karachi in 1991 after serving the route for many decades and it halted its Islamabad services last year.

 
hoons90
Posts: 3116
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RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 4:37 pm

I believe BA has flown to Seoul until 1998.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
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RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 4:56 pm

And going further South BA no longer serves ADL, AKL, BNE and PER!
BA could surely serve these markets and make money, except for stupid codesharing.
 
bells
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 6:36 pm

The Coachman is correct. Airlines including BA lost money hand over fist flying into KL because MAS wasn't being run as a proper commercial airline and was charging ridiculously low fares while simultaneously building up a debt of $2.5 billion.

The likes of BA, Qantas, Lufthansa, Northwest etc won't return to KL until MAS stops fare dumping.

BA lost $40 million on the KL route in the year before it suspended the service.

KLIA has waived all landing fees in an attempt to get more airlines to use the airport but they still aren't coming back.
 
MAS777
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RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 7:04 pm

That's interesting...

My sources at BA tell me that KUL was actually doing rather well and cargo was an additional factor. BA was in fact about to alter its KUL flights from 5x week by 777, to 3x week with the 777 and twice weekly 747-400, with all flights operating point-to-point, as the 777 could not cope with demand on the route.

As mentioned many times before, QF was the frontrunner for ending BA's LHR-KUL-SYD route. This service actually operated at BA's peak performance into Malaysia and although QF code-shared on the route, it found it could not sell IT'S seats out of KUL, so abandoned the code-share and persuaded BA to concentrate in building up SIN as a joint hub instead. I also note that at this time, BA also handed over its Southeast Asian operations over to Qantas to manage, and we all know, since 1983, QF has not really been interested in operating into Malaysia - as it prefers to feed passengers via Singapore instead.

About fare-dumping, SQ fare-dumps in Malaysia, just check out their website and the ridiculous fares it offers out of Malaysia. OdIE is also correct about the fixed-fare structure in Malaysia. When the system was suspended following 9/11, fares went into freefall and airlines did BETTER. Emirates, Qatar, Lauda and Cathay Pacific could attest to that - as all four increased flights to cope with demand.

Incidently, these 'fixed-fares' are NOT fixed by the Malaysian government, but by the MEMBER airlines subscribing to them, of which BA and Lufthansa were major players.

Just some food for thought...




 
gkirk
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RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Tue Nov 19, 2002 10:15 pm

If BA could make money on the routes they dropped, they'd fly them. If not, they dont fly them. Face it, BA wont fly anywhere where they cant make money.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
odie
Posts: 1581
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RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:09 am

BA was actually experiencing pretty high load factors for their flight to/from KUL, so much so that it was complementing MAS' twice daily services last time rather than competing head to head (i.e. when either carrier was booked up, passengers will resort to the other carrier).

I don't see why BA made a loss at KUL when their European counterparts are making profits out from KUL. Austrian Airlines, for example, had increased their flights from 5 weekly to a daily flight to KUL, when other airlines are cutting down on their frequencies. O&D traffic between Malaysia and England is definitely a lot higher than between Malaysia and Austria, probably by several folds. If BA can market their product properly, I don't see why BA won't make profit at KUL.

In fact, KLM is getting good loads on their KUL flight, especially on their Business Class. Even Austrian seems to enjoy good loads for their Business Class. And the reason BA cited to pull out from KUL was lack of premium traffic on that route. Perhaps, all these passengers transfered to these airlines (KLM and Austrian) when BA pulled out. And that's lack of premium traffic, huh? Even MAS have no problems filling their Business or First Class to/from London.

The Coachman: Actually Mas777 just reminded me something. Any airline that operate into Malaysia, or rather, have presence in Malaysia, is NOT required to join the marketing agreement scheme. It's optional. SIA is not a member of the marketing agreement and they are doing very well in Malaysia because their fares are cheaper than the rest. The only setback is a travel agent can't sell SIA seats if they are selling tickets for MAS or other airlines that are in the agreement. However, now that there are numerous travel agencies that actually cater for SIA only, the airlines can consider whether to join that scheme or not. If they don't, they could market their flights with SIA or other travel agencies that carry SIA. You could see that United, Northwest and American are actually already doing so. They are offering passengers from KUL very cheap tickets to America because they are not involved in that agreement and hence, they are able to market it on their own.

Regards.
 
mhz
Posts: 92
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RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Wed Nov 20, 2002 10:21 am

To pull out after opering in KUL for more 50 years does not make sense at all!
 
The Coachman
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RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Wed Nov 20, 2002 10:32 am

Right e o, thanks for clearing that up.
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
Guest

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Wed Nov 20, 2002 12:05 pm

To pull out after opering in KUL for more 50 years does not make sense at all!

Well, SAS pulled out Greenland after 50 years of service.

What's your comment with that one then?  Smile
 
Power
Posts: 121
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RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:40 pm

Fact I flew BA out of KUL just before the route was suspended I have never seen business class so full. Fact II KLM makes a loss on the KUL route and will probably go from 5 flights a week to 4 for on the summer schedule.
Lauda (OS) makes its money on the flight from Sydney to Vienna it only uses KUL out of the simple fact that it is the cheapest place to stop and refuel on the way to Australia. 70% of OS passengers are Eastern Europeans going and returning from Australia.
 
mhz
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 3:08 pm

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Wed Nov 20, 2002 4:29 pm

Bigo747
Comparing Greenland and KUL is like comparing apples to oranges.
SAS-Greenland Domestic flight (i think coz it is part of Denmark)
BA-KUL International Intercontinental flight
KUL requires long haul and wide body aircraft, Greenland narrow body aircraft.
KUL initial ROI (return on investment) is riskier and payback return is longer
Malaysia population 22 million, Greenland 57,000 so market penetration? u be the judge.
For me why BA did not make money in KUL when others do is purely bad route management and they were late to capitalize the situation when the ringgit was grossly devalued with the USD & GBP.
 
MAS777
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RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Sat Nov 23, 2002 3:18 am

Something that has always played at the back of my mind ever since the Bali bombing when the UK govt. admitted to having prior knowledge that Indonesia was a high-risk travel area but was not officially notifying the travelling public...

Did BA and NWA really pull out of Malaysia (and indeed Jakarta) due to the threat of being targetted by terrorists? We know that the US govt. warned American citizens against travel to Malaysia and issued warnings to US installations and companies. Is this the barrier between NWA and MAS cooperating more closely?

Did the British govt. issue similar warnings to BA about flying to Malaysia and hence BA took the stance to concentrate services at SIN which is generally regarded as 'safer' in terms of 'risks'?

Lufthansa pulled out of KUL due to economic reasons (and curiously no one has ever doubted that fact) - but it did so way back in 1998 - right after the economic crisis and consolidated its operations with STAR partners, Thai and SIA.

BA however, was flying high in Malaysia and (as I mentioned) didn't seem to be reporting many problems (in fact quite the opposite, according to my sources) - which I guess is possibly why many (especially, us frequent LHR-KUL flyers) find really difficult to accept. Reports of financial losses at KUL are still unconfirmed (I'm afraid I have checked with friends at BA Waterside).

Think about it - free landing rights and landing fees - you can charge peanuts and still make a profit. Emirates and Qatar are a testament to that.

I would be interested to see if there was more than financial reasons for airlines overflying KUL in favour of SIN in our current political and economic climate.

 
Guest

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Sat Nov 23, 2002 6:07 am

Comparing Greenland and KUL is like comparing apples to oranges.

Well, both flights are stopped after 50 years of service.

SAS-Greenland Domestic flight (i think coz it is part of Denmark)
BA-KUL International Intercontinental flight
KUL requires long haul and wide body aircraft, Greenland narrow body aircraft.


Kangerlussuaq in Greenland are operated by wide-body B767-300ER.

For me why BA did not make money in KUL when others do is purely bad route management and they were late to capitalize the situation when the ringgit was grossly devalued with the USD & GBP.

Didn't you heard the word "over-protection"? One of the factor is caused by Malaysian Government's "over-protection" on MAS.
 
mhz
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 3:08 pm

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:34 am

Bigo747 refer to Mas777 comment
 
Guest

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:02 am

Did BA and NWA really pull out of Malaysia (and indeed Jakarta) due to the threat of being targetted by terrorists? We know that the US govt. warned American citizens against travel to Malaysia and issued warnings to US installations and companies. Is this the barrier between NWA and MAS cooperating more closely?

Nope. It's not about the terrorist target. BA pulled out KUL before 9.11. There's no such thing that BA left due to such reason. NW says they didn't make any money on this route.

NWA/MAS problem is still a mystery. I doubted the terror problems is the barrier for these 2.

Think about it - free landing rights and landing fees - you can charge peanuts and still make a profit. Emirates and Qatar are a testament to that.

If British Airways today operates flight to KUL from a Muslim state, sure they will relaunch the route right away.

I mean, Malaysia is mostly Muslims, and there are intense relationships between the states, which requires more flights.

BA however, was flying high in Malaysia and (as I mentioned) didn't seem to be reporting many problems (in fact quite the opposite, according to my sources) - which I guess is possibly why many (especially, us frequent LHR-KUL flyers) find really difficult to accept. Reports of financial losses at KUL are still unconfirmed (I'm afraid I have checked with friends at BA Waterside).

If BA was really flying high in Malaysia, why would they pull out this route? If they didn't make a loss seriously, why would they pull out?

Did the British govt. issue similar warnings to BA about flying to Malaysia and hence BA took the stance to concentrate services at SIN which is generally regarded as 'safer' in terms of 'risks'?

Do you think is it possible that the political relationship causing these problems? Malaysia and UK's relationship wasn't that good over some issues.

 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Sat Nov 23, 2002 8:51 pm

Bigo747,

Your comment about BA being only successful should it operate from a Muslim state into Malaysia clearly states that your are relatively ignorant about the travel industry in Malaysia - and indeed Malaysia as a whole. London is Malaysia's number one European destination (and certainly one of its top destinations worldwide), in terms of bilateral tourism and business traffic. Being a Commonwealth nation, many Malaysians and British nationals have deep-rooted links between the two countries. Part of the reason SIA also does well on its London route, is due to a large overspill of passengers flying from/to Malaysia.

Your point about BA pulling out before 9/11; Does that mean you agree with me in thinking that the relevant authorities were beginning to alter services to 'risk' destinations - as reports have already suggested that US authorities were aware of such 'mass terrorist' plans long before 9/11.

(BTW - British Airways withdrew services from KUL in March 2001 and NOT 2000 as mentioned above. I was proud to have been invited to fly on on its last flights to Kuala Lumpur and have mentioned in the past, that the pilots and crew on board were at the time, still trying to figure out if it was indeed true as flights had been full to the brim in all classes.)

The fact that BA's pull-out caused Prime Ministerial talks between the UK and Malaysia, would mean that politically, BA would never own up to this as a cause of its disposal of KUL as a destination, for fear of labelling Malaysia as such a 'risk destination'. Interestingly, since Bali, the UK authorities have confessed that it had regarded Indonesia, Malaysia and Philippines as 'terrorist risk areas for some time'. At the same time, the Foreign & Commonwealth Office also added Singapore and Thailand were to be added to that list.

The UK CAA also agreed with Malaysian authorities, that passenger and cargo volume between London and KL at the time of BA's departure was high and had no qualms issuing MAS with 4 additional slots to cope with demand (giving MAS three daily services on certain days).

Interesting, n'est-ce pas?
 
Airbus Lover
Posts: 3163
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2000 10:29 pm

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:49 pm

Did you know that to get to US West Coast from Malaysia the cheapest is United and Northwest based on 6 months ticket and open jaw allowed and you can stopover at HKG, NRT, SIN or BKK (two of these) on both ways.. You fly from PEN or KUL to HKG or BKK or SIN to catch these flights on the airlines that fly this route... (MH, CX for HKG, TG MH for BKK and SQ MH for SIN)

UA is RM2190 + tax
NW is RM2400+ tax

US$1=RM3.80

You do the maths! Even SQ, the airline that 'always' have cheap fares out of Malaysia is selling arond RM2700-RM2900... Korean Air is around RM2800 and needless to say China AIrlines was around RM2000... Eva Air is around RM2500

So UA and NW seems to be the cheapest
 
Guest

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Sun Nov 24, 2002 3:05 am

Mas777: There's no doubt on your comment.

But, why are the demands high? LOW Price. BA pulled out (and so does NW) because they can't afford Low Price.

Part of the reason SIA also does well on its London route, is due to a large overspill of passengers flying from/to Malaysia.

This is one of the excuses I've seen from time to time about accusing Singapore Airlines (Just similar to their Government, who likes to blame the other countries). Ask yourself why does everyone choose other country's airline rather their own?

Malaysia Government also have to ask themself why are the airlines leaving? Offering free landing fees won't help. The authority has to come up with a better plan to complement with the free landing fee offer.

Otherwise, Malaysia will only attract those "Muslim-based" airline.

P.S. I'm not ignorant. You're trying to avoid my comments on the intense relationship between Malaysia and other Muslim States.
 
mhz
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 3:08 pm

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Sun Nov 24, 2002 4:20 am

Bigo747

Please define what is a "Muslim-based" airline? Are they bad airline or good airlines? Why are you branding them "Muslim-based" airline? Is there specific meaning that we do not know of? My advise is before you jump in into this stupid religious bigotry, try to log in www.tourism.gov.my to know the tourists arrival statistics, are they mainly from what you brand them the so called "Muslim-based" countries, "Christian-based" countries, "Hindu-based" countries, "Buddhist-based" countries, "Atheist-based" countries, etc. All religions are great and all religions teach good things in oneself.
 
Guest

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Sun Nov 24, 2002 5:54 am

Please define what is a "Muslim-based" airline? Are they bad airline or good airlines? Why are you branding them "Muslim-based" airline? Is there specific meaning that we do not know of?

Muslim-based airline is the airlines based in the Muslim States, and they're good/excellent airlines.

And those people who thinks I'm turning this into stupid religious bigotry: You are the bigot. Because you like to twist the idea.

Remember that new additions to KUL or extra flights being added are those airlines from Muslim State.

What's wrong with that?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Sun Nov 24, 2002 1:21 pm

When BA pulled out of KUL i'm pretty sure that they had a daily 777 service from LHR! Did they not?
 
Airbus Lover
Posts: 3163
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2000 10:29 pm

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Sun Nov 24, 2002 1:45 pm

Yes indeed -NBT, when they pulled out of KUL they had daily 777 service.
 
adol
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2001 4:35 pm

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Sun Nov 24, 2002 1:47 pm

Hi everyone,

maybe this is just out of the topic, but I just think I have to clearify this. Though Malaysia is a Muslim country (official religion is Islam), the muslims takes up 52% of overall population. In fact the state that I'm residing now, Sarawak consist of the 75% non-muslim population; where you can consider us (muslim in Sarawak) as minority.

I think the reason BA discontinued KUL is just lack of premium passengers. Judging from their a/c configuration more than 50% of the seats are in premium classes, so I think it is hard for them to fill these seats. And from what I've heard, BA revenue mostly generated from these premium classes passenger.

Cheers!!
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Sun Nov 24, 2002 6:32 pm

50%? What is the configuration on BA's 772's?

I heard BA were increasing flights to HKG to 17 weekly 744's from 14, is this so?

Is BKK going the same way as QF with just BA9-10 continuing to SYD going through BKK?

SIN seems to be getting more flights with BA15-16 continuing to SYD daily and BA17-18 the MEL flight going daily in March, do BA have any other flights to SIN?

How about NRT that is 2 daily 744's I think? Will they increase this if they can get the slots?

I would think all the Middle Eastern flights are fairly full and looking for expansion, is this so?
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Mon Nov 25, 2002 8:46 pm

Many seem to forget that BA had a large amount of traffic ex-LHR and not just ex-KUL. My last trip in Club World to KUL in Feb '01 cost me about £2800 (can't remember the exact figure) return - to me that certainly was not a LOW fare (as you pointed out) and paying by Amex - I could have flown with Malaysia Airlines and got a second companion ticket for free or a priority upgrade to First Class. The Club class cabin which was indeed large for a 777 - was also full bar one or two seats on both trips - with many business travellers and honeymooners.

btw - many Malaysians choose to fly SIA as there is not enough capacity into Malaysia. Take a look at bookings for the weekend before X'mas this year / or the weekend after the New Year. For many weeks MH1, MH3, MH 7, MH 5, MH9, MH21 now have been fully booked in C and Y our of Europe. For UK departing passengers, there are still seats available on SQ, BA and QF flights into SIN. Malaysian passengers prefer to transit at Changi rather than a European hub for convenience and language. I did not mention that as an 'excuse' but merely to point out that as SQ offers better fares - Its not that hard to decifer why SIA and SIN gets so much traffic for Malaysia.

This discussion is starting to become circular - Bigo747...

...As I mentioned, is it not interesting that Western airlines have withdrawn from KUL - even with incentives - could there be a political motive rather than financial.

However, I still do NOT understand your thoughts about the '..intense relationship between Malaysia and Muslim states'. I note - Pakistan Airlines has also withdrawn. I also don't see Royal Jordanian load factors having changed much in years. Emirates, Gulf Air and Qatar just have brilliant marketing products and are justifiably doing very well indeed. They saw a void in the market as LH, AF and BA pulled out - so they offered excellent connection alternatives for European-Malaysian traffic.

As a non-Muslim travelling to Malaysia from the UK - I would definately not rule out flying with either carrier should MAS be full.
 
odie
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:55 am

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Fri Nov 29, 2002 2:44 am

Mas777 is absolutely correct regarding MAS' flights out from Europe into Kuala Lumpur. You could check that MH 1/3/5/7/9/11/17/21 are fully booked. If MAS is getting so booked up in their European sector, I don't see why BA can't make use of their Heathrow hub and connect these passengers to Kuala Lumpur, thus generating more ex-European passengers. Also, to a smaller extent, connect passengers across the Atlantic where they previously used to do so, onwards to Kuala Lumpur.

Currently, MAS is the sole carrier providing nonstop services between Kuala Lumpur and London, providing about 355,000 seats a year. In 2001, there were about 262,000 British tourist visiting Malaysia, plus about another 180,000 or so tourist from other European countries (exlcuding Scandinavia, which makes up another 82,000 tourist) with easy access to London-Heathrow airport and that sums to about 442,000 tourist arrivals. One could do the math and see very well that MAS can't even cope with the European tourist traffic alone and we are not even considering passengers traveling for business purposes, the Malaysian tourist to Europe, which normally use London as their gateway and not to mention the huge Malaysian student population in the UK.

Also, there are a lot of British companies that are investing in Malaysia and vice versa and the reason for lack of premium traffic is perhaps invalid in this case. British expatriates residing in Malaysia would perhaps love to fly with BA to London since it's their national carrier, but they are offered Virgin instead, only to discover that it's on a code-share basis with MAS and the beauty of this nonstop service with MAS instead of transiting and changing terminals in Singapore.

When they started to code-share with Cathay Pacific on the latter's HKG-KUL route, BA offered a "cheap" alternative to Kuala Lumpur, prices in the Economy starting at £800, where I could probably fly Business with Qatar Airways, Emirates or Sri Lankan. Which sane person would want to pay £800 just to fly with BA and then transit in Hong Kong for another 4 hours flight to Kuala Lumpur.

Bigo747,
Have you ever traveled on flights between London and Kuala Lumpur? Do you know how hard it is to get a seat to Kuala Lumpur? I had booked my flights to Kuala Lumpur for the Christmas season and I was unable to fly with MAS because their flights are full to the brim. Thus, I need to resort to fly with SIA instead.

By the way, it's not only "Muslim-states" states carriers that are increasing their capacity into Kuala Lumpur. China Southern, Korean Airlines, JAL had increased their capacity into KUL and recently Air Macau inaugrated services into KUL.
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Fri Nov 29, 2002 3:23 am

Are MAS profitable?Have they been in the last 5 years?
 
Guest

RE: BA Routes To Asia?

Fri Nov 29, 2002 4:28 am

MAS has been making huge loss in the past 5 years.

Pakistan Airlines has also withdrawn. I also don't see Royal Jordanian load factors having changed much in years.

Pakistan was FORCED to withdraw due to India close the airspace to Pakistani Aircraft.

Malaysia and Royal Jordanian Airlines is negotiating to upgrade 2x weekly to 4x weekly flight.

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