azeem
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What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Sat Nov 23, 2002 7:55 pm

Any ideas as to what are the chances for Sir Rchard Branson to start his own small airline in the US.

 
elwood64151
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:55 pm

Zero. US law forbids any foreign person or company from owning controlling interest in a US carrier. If he wants to transfer his citizenship, then I can think of three low-cost/low-fare air carriers that have flight certificates and need cash to either restart or pay their bankruptcy debt.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
Ikarus
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Sun Nov 24, 2002 12:48 am

He'd be mad to do that in the foreseeable future, given the current economic climate. Maybe in 5-10 years. Maybe when the US finally give up their medieval business laws. But until then, zero.

For now, he'll probably concentrate on expanding Virgin Blue, linking up Virgin Atlantic to Australia, and eventually forming an offshoot (Virgin Pacific) based there. Oh, and making/keeping Virgin Atlantic profitable during the inevitable airline crisis should that dude steering the USA at the moment start a war in Iraq...

Regards

Ikarus
 
haveric
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Sun Nov 24, 2002 1:12 am

a several yr old quote from Sir Richard:

It is really a ludicrous situation. When I open a Virgin Megastore in New York, I am welcomed with open arms, just as Tower Records is in London. But try to operate an air service between New York and Boston, using U.S. aircraft and U.S. crew, and governments scream that I am mad!
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Sun Nov 24, 2002 2:29 am

Protectionism is the keyword here.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Sun Nov 24, 2002 2:35 am

He may be able to pick up 49% of UA with 25% voting rights in a few weeks.
Virgin United anyone?
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
gigneil
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Sun Nov 24, 2002 8:46 am

God, that would be pure bliss.

I love United, but I love Sir Richard too... I can only imagine that it would make life much more interesting.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

N
 
fpdonald
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Sun Nov 24, 2002 11:31 am

Remember the days when "Richard" had to cater alcohol round trip from the UK due to his record? I do.

I'm not sure that record still carries weight, but anything is possible. Think Laker!

Never say never!
 
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STT757
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Sun Nov 24, 2002 11:11 pm

"medieval business laws"

So giving foreign companies access to the US Domestic market (40-50% of the world's air travel is within the US) is a fair trade for what? Four or five flights into Heathrow for CO and DL, no way.

It's also very different than say Chrysler being bought by Daimler,

A very large percentage of airline employees (especially pilots and mechanics) are members of Reserve or Guard Units, they rely on their employers to protect their jobs when they get called up for service.

With German opposition to US action against Iraq, and France's history of oppostion to other US military operations (Libya) what would protect US pilots and mechanics who are called to active duty from being descrimidated or fired because of a companie's or countries political beliefs.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
elwood64151
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Mon Nov 25, 2002 12:00 am

Ikarus:

I don't know about you, but I resent the commander and chief of my country being called a "dude". My brother is a tanker witht the 10th AD and several of my close friends are also in the military. They are the ones at the tip of the spear, and GWB knows that. I can see and understand that he will only use military force if necessary.

Enough political messes...

STT757:

If a foreign company wants to do business in the US, they must follow US law, and so if we recall our reserve pilots, they must let those pilots go.

Finally:

I think Sir Richard (he was knighted, wasn't he? If not, he should be.) would be a great leader for a US airline. It's just that Federal Law doesn't allow it. Personally, I have no problem with people from the UK, Australia, Germany, Norway, Denmark, Iceland or Ireland, and maybe a few other countries owning a controlling interest in a US carrier, as long as that carrier is based in the US.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
Ikarus
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Mon Nov 25, 2002 6:56 pm

Elwood, I use the term dude only as severest statement of disrespect to that person. Rest assured, I would never use the term for someone I can take seriously.
 
elwood64151
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Mon Nov 25, 2002 8:43 pm

Ikarus:

I think the man duely elected according to the rules set forth in the Constitution (and, unfortunately, the state of Florida...) and commander-in-chief of the most powerful military in the world is someone you can take seriously. Contrary to popular opinion, he's not an idiot. He's at least smart enough to surround himself with people who are smarter than he is.

By the way, have you looked at Canada's leaders? SHEESH!

(Oh, should you wish to continue this, contact me via e-mail at elwood@juno.com - Ikarus only!)
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
cedarjet
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Mon Nov 25, 2002 9:27 pm

Branson, I agree, would be mad to step into the US domestic market right now, it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better as well.

Bush is a plonker. "Dude" is paying the man a huge compliment. And he's going to lead America straight down the toilet. Give him another eighteen months and you will be astonished at how quickly things got bad. ASTONISHED.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
bucky707
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Mon Nov 25, 2002 11:54 pm

Tell ya what Mr. Branson, I will support your efforts to start up an airline in the US the day you go to your own government and get them to allow a US airline to start operations in the UK. Until then you are just a greedy hypocrit.
 
Ikarus
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 12:04 am

Elwood, thanks for the offer, but there's a good reason I've been avoiding the non-av forum for a few months now! I get too excited (read: angry) about politics and try to limit myself to more pleasant things...  Big grin

Regards

Ikarus
 
elwood64151
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 12:30 am

Ikarus:

No problem. Your opinion is yours, my opinion is mine. I was offering so we didn't have to keep exchanging political views in the forum!  Smile

Seriously, tho, I don't think Congress is going to change that law, so Richard is going to have to change citizenship before he can operate a US carrier.

Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
Leezyjet
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:01 am

Bucky707,

"Tell ya what Mr. Branson, I will support your efforts to start up an airline in the US the day you go to your own government and get them to allow a US airline to start operations in the UK. Until then you are just a greedy hypocrit."

They could do that tomorrow if they wanted to, the UK government does not have a problem with foreign ownership of airlines. LH and SAS own 49% of Bmi, so it's possible for another country to own shares in a UK airline. SQ also own 49% of the shares in VS too.

What he wants to do is start a US airline based in the US, but your stoopid laws would only allow him to own 25% of it, but he wants a higher % so he has more muscle on the board and so it would be a majority his airline, like all the other Virgin companies, he owns the majority share.

Also SIR Richard Branson has been campaigning for the UK government to agree to an open skies policy with the US, but as the UK only has a small bargaining tool compared to the US, we are not going to give your airlines access to LHR until we get something in return,(like more foreign ownership or rights to pick up pax and fly to internal destinations) which the US government is not allowing.

You also accuse him of being a greedy hypocrite, that's rich coming from a citizen of the greedyist country on earth, where people are encouraged to be greedy from birth, that also shows in the size of most of your fellow countrymen and the size of your cars and use of the earths resources to run them (25% of the Earths population using 50% of the worlds Oil). Now who's greedy ?.

All Sir Richard is trying to do is make things better for the consumer by going up against long established large organisation's monopoly's so that the consumer gets better service and standards for less $$.


 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
srbmod
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:45 am

The U.S. airline industry is one of the few industries in the U.S. that has such strict ownership rules. All of the other transportation related industries allow foreign companies to own significant shares in them, yet the airline industry is still a 'hands off' area for foreign investment. Considering the shape of the industry now, perhaps foreign ownership should be welcomed into the airline industry, because some more airlines are bound to go under. If allowing someone like Richard Branson to have a majority stake in an airline in order to save thousands of jobs, then the federal gov't needs to realize that maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing at all. I mean we're not talking about having Virgin Atlantic or British Airways flying U.S. domestic flights, rather having foreign ownership of airlines in order to help people keep their jobs or to get jobs with these airlines. The unemployment rate is still not dropping like they have hoped, and a sizable portion of those that have become unemployed within the last year have come from the airline industry. Would the government rather have these people stay on the dole until their benefits run out (and many of them lose their unemployment benefits 12/28/02, when the benefits extension runs out) or would they like to see them back at work?
 
aamd11
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 5:28 am

Well Said Leezyjet,

The oil thing especially, a rather excessive use of Oil is clearly seen over in North America as a whole, with a huge number of people driving 50year old cars [which do about 2miles to the galon] and the newer thirstier SUVs!

What will the UK get out of OpenSkies if it is done the way the US wants it?
Let me think..... Nothing!
We give them Access to all our airports and in return we expect the same.

What i cannot grasp is Why can the two countries declare war together and co-operate heavily on bombing places, and yet they cannot settle an agreement on being able to fly into each others airspace.
Surely if there is such a frienship between the two nations like that, they can agree terms allowing each other to fly on each countries air routes!

A^A MD-11
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 6:28 am

So giving foreign companies access to the US Domestic market (40-50% of the world's air travel is within the US) is a fair trade for what? Four or five flights into Heathrow for CO and DL, no way.

Don't expect to get everything and give nothing, it doesn't work that way. US airlines want access to Heathrow, the world's most prestigious and lucrative destination, if u want that, you have to give back something in return. Either cabotage rights or a bigger slice of foreign ownership, you have to give up your practice of protectionism to enter LHR. LHR is a goldmine for many airlines and the UK will not allow foreign airlines full access in return for jackshit.

Sir Richard is a highly respected man in the aviation world, if you're not gonna give him access, you might aswell not give it to anyone.

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
bucky707
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 7:34 am

so UK laws allow 49% ownership of an airline. Thats great, but it still does not allow, say Delta or American, to start flying domestic UK routes. I would even agree to allowing foreigners to own 49% of a US airline. But until we get full reciprocity, Branson can cry all he wants. Yeah, he may be advocating open skies between the US and UK, but he has never uttered a word about opening up the domestic UK market. Besides, he was never in favor of opening up LHR while his airline was in the formative years. Face it, Virgin was allowed to succeed largely because of the protectionism given it by the UK government at LHR. By the way, I am not a citizen of the UK, and I don't care what title your queen has given him.
 
brons2
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 9:25 am

Typical UK spin at work here.

The US does not expect cabotage within the UK. Nor will it give cabotage within the US. We just want greater access to Heathrow, and in exchange UK airlines will get greater access to the US. THEY WILL NOT GET FOREIGN OWNERSHIP RIGHTS, so get over yourselves already.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
Leezyjet
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 9:31 am

Bucky707,

Why would any US carrier want to operate domestic flights within the UK anyway ?. Do you realise how small this country is ?. The longest flight between the major cities is only just over an hour, what would be the point in United or American or whoever operating their own a/c on such short sectors ?. To stand any chance of making any money, they would need to serve LHR and this would not be practical for 2 reasons.
1. There are no slots available (pretty damn important don't you think) and if they were to use their own slots they already have, I'm sure they would rather get a fully loaded 777 airborne to the USA, rather than an empty one to hop to MAN or GLA or where ever.
2. LHR is already served by 2 airlines that operate domestic flights to all the major cities in the UK (except BHX which is too near), these being BA and BD so there isn't really any need for another one, especially with Easyjet at Luton about 45 mins drive away.

AC used to operate from YYZ-GLA-MAN, so it's possible for foreign airline's to fly domestically in the UK, they just ain't allowed to pick up pax, a few other airlines have also operated internally too.

It's a little bit different in the good ol' US of A though as it's a much bigger country, so it's more practical for foreign airlines to be able to serve more than one destination with one a/c.

If Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair finally agree on anything to do with the open skies, the best the US can hope for is more access to LHR, as we don't have anything else practical to offer.


"Besides, he was never in favor of opening up LHR while his airline was in the formative years."

Well would you be if you were trying to make your new airline bigger ?, that's just common business sense.

"Face it, Virgin was allowed to succeed largely because of the protectionism given it by the UK government at LHR."

Guess that was that after the fight against the government to finally get access to LHR then ?, also the government was not protecting Virgin, it was too busy trying to protect BA from Virgin.

 Smile

"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
bucky707
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:15 am

Leezyjet, you are right, there really is nothing that the UK could offer, domestically. That is one point I disagree with ever allowing foreign airlines to fly domestic US routes. (by the way, just like with the AC example in the UK, foreign airlines can fly within the US. They just cannot pick up passengers)There really is no one who can reciprocate with an equal market. But the principle is there. If you want access to our markets, then allow us access to yours. Don't worry though, Branson will get his chance. The US government is the biggest group of wimps on the planet. Time after time, they have allowed foreign access to US markets without requiring full reciprocity. I have no doubt that enough money from the right lobbyist will once again buy off our goverment.
 
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STT757
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:59 am

Hell why not scrap the whole thing and start over, don't let anyone fly to Heathrow from the US.

Fact is Heathrow is not "lucrative" without the US flights, ban all flights between Heathrow and the US and BA and Virgin go out of business that same month. While US airlines can (and have) survive(d) just on the US domestic market as they have for 70 years.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
VS11
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 12:47 pm

STT757 -

You are overemphasizing the importance of UK flights to the USA. Remember that just like the US, many countries used to be UK colonies - the UK has trade and cultural connections with many other countries enough to support BA and VA - and let me give you a hint - the African market is much bigger than the US, so do not you worry about LHR, it is gonna be lucrative even without the US flights. But the only place Americans can go to Europe is London, because many Americans do not speak any other language, so their visits to Europe are actually visits to the UK. So the bottom line is that Americans create more demand for LHR than Brits to any major US cities. Besides, due to the weather in the UK many people travel on package tours, and accordingly many many many more charter companies exist, which can support LHR and LGW.

However, the questions raised here are almost not relevant anymore as some of you may remember that the Open Skies agreements between the US and individual EU countries have been declared unlawful by the European Court, which means now that the EU and the US are going to sign new Open Skies agreement. In other words, it is not going to be US vs UK but US vs EU, and then we can see what happens.
All of a sudden the chances may be much higher for my employer Sir Richard  Smile/happy/getting dizzy - (yes, Leezyjet we are coworkers  Smile/happy/getting dizzy....


Greetings,
vs11
 
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STT757
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 12:52 pm

The US carriers can go to Gatwick or Stansted, so could BA or Virgin.

Ban all flights between the US and Heathrow, should be no sweat off BA and VS's back right?

And Im sure Brits are jamming BA's reservation systems right now for flights to Nigeria.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
VS11
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 1:02 pm

ST757 -

Exactly - Brits may not be jamming BA's flights to Nigeria but probably Nigerians are jamming them - thus, LHR would still be lucrative without the US flights. And again you are missing the point. Virgin does not oppose opening LHR - but why expose UK carriers to more threats without getting nothing in return?

And yet again, now it is for the EU and the US to negotiate....

regards,
vs11
 
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STT757
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 1:07 pm

Either scrap the whole thing, or let AA/BA merge into ABA Europe and ABA America (kind of like DHL) and give CO ,BMI and DL access.

It's not the US's fault that there are only three British carriers (BA,BMI,VS) vs 6 US carriers (AA,CO,DL,NWA,UAL,U) who want to fly between Heathrow and the US.
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VS11
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Tue Nov 26, 2002 1:28 pm

STT757 - What's your point? It is not Virgin's or UK's fault that there are more American carriers that want to fly to LHR.

It is all about business interests (money). The US always proclaim they are pro-competition and open, free markets, then let them open their air market to competition. The US may still wanna continue play the protectionist game under the military pretext but methinks that in negotiating with the EU, it is not gonna work - almost all European countries are now gonna be in NATO so the argument that the US will need to keep its military independence and thus needs to keep air personel and equipment out of EU-based entities will not be sufficient. US and EU are playing it together in the NATO. This is of course my opinion.
On the other hand, i can see why the US wants to protect their market, and I do not blame them but you just need to balance your interests and your partners' interests, and I believe the EU is one of the bigger US partners....


regards,
vs11
 
Leezyjet
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Wed Nov 27, 2002 9:21 am

Bucky707,

Getting back to the point of this thread, what Sir Richard wants is to own a US airline based in the US operated by US crews, what is so wrong with the fact that he is an Englishman. It's possible in every other industry to have foreign ownership, so why not the airline industry ?. All he's wanting to do is make things better for the US consumer and provide jobs for US citizens, but you guys are slagging him off for it, why is it so bad that it's owned by a foreigner ?. He's not exactly syphoning off funds for the taliban or anything is he !.

As Haveric says,

a several yr old quote from Sir Richard:

It is really a ludicrous situation. When I open a Virgin Megastore in New York, I am welcomed with open arms, just as Tower Records is in London. But try to operate an air service between New York and Boston, using U.S. aircraft and U.S. crew, and governments scream that I am mad!


VS11,

Hi, nice to see a fellow Virgin on here.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Wed Nov 27, 2002 9:37 am

It's not the US's fault that there are only three British carriers (BA,BMI,VS) vs 6 US carriers (AA,CO,DL,NWA,UAL,U) who want to fly between Heathrow and the US.

You make no sense whatsoever. The US is 30 times bigger than the UK with a bigger population and a bigger market, so how the hell do you expect the UK to sustain 6 or 7 large airlines all serving from a small island nation? The fact that we have 3 large international carriers (VS,BA,BMI) is a tribute to the strength of the UK aviation industry. How many other european countries have 3 airlines the size of BA, VS and BMI? no one. Not to forget the LCC's like Easyjet,Ryanair,GO and Buzz etc. If the UK was as big a country as the US, them i'm sure we would have 6 or 7 mega airlines like you have.

And tell me, where are the slots at LHR you folks are craving for?

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
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STT757
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Wed Nov 27, 2002 11:52 am

"where are the slots at LHR you folks are craving for?"

They already exist, they are in the hands of other carriers who already have them. BA expands their flights from Heathrow by buying slots from smaller carriers or carriers that go broke, the UK does not have to build new runways at Heathrow. They should let CO , DL do what BA does, offer other airlines money for their slots.

If Air Romania (fictional example) has two Heathrow slots , airlines such as CO or DL should be allowed to buy them. Im sure Air Romania (fictional airline) were offered enough they would happily trade Heathrow for Gatwick.

Free market, it would make alot of smaller airlines with Heathrow slots alot of money. Also if Air France wanted to lease DL some slots they should be allowed, same with KLM and CO etc.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Wed Nov 27, 2002 11:57 am

"what is so wrong with the fact that he is an Englishman"

Absolutley nothing, I love Branson aswell as most Americans.

The problem is once you set a new precedent for foreign ownership you cannot stop.

If you let Branson own an Airline then you would have to let Saudis, Germans, French, Communists Chinese (etc) own US airlines (if they wanted to).
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
VS11
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Wed Nov 27, 2002 12:05 pm

STT757 -

Problem is those slots to Air Romania and alike are given according to international Air Service Agreements between the UK and the respective country, the same type of agreements that Bermuda II belongs to, so you might argue that BAA would be better off financially to give the slots for routes such as to the US because they would make more money but it does not work this way for two reasons:
1. Those foreign airlines have had those slots for decades when BAA and all airlines were government property and international air travel was strictly bilateral and protectionist as in many ways it is still now.
2. What makes LHR so attractive is the connections people can make. That is, people can find a flight to/from anywhere in the world out of/to LHR and that is why it has so much traffic. If the majority of the flights were only to the US, LHR will be much less coveted.

regards,
vs11
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Wed Nov 27, 2002 12:42 pm

"If the majority of the flights were only to the US, LHR will be much less coveted."


...I HARDLY think that adding service to ATL/IAH/DFW/etc from LHR, on three or four additional carriers, would make Heathrow any less attractive.

Could you see QF quitting the kangaroo route if DL gets 3 or four flights per day? Could you see SQ tucking its tail between its legs if CO could fly there from Houston/Newark? And of course every major British business would cut its international travel budget if USAir started competing with BA to Philly.

In short.... utter nonsense.  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
VS11
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Wed Nov 27, 2002 2:29 pm

Dear ConcordeBoy -

you misunderstood my proposition. It is not about whether the flights to the US are important or not, it is about the importance of LHR as a point of connection from virtually anywhere in the world. The US was picked as an example - in other words, if LHR served only a limited number of destinations it would have been less coveted.

In addition, the US is not the only country in the world so I am assuming that LHR would continue to be busy international airport even without a single US destination served out of there.

For some reason you seem to think that aviation (and everything else) is all about America. Everyone is allowed to be ethnocentric but let me explain something to you - the world will continue to exist even without the US, it is a simple fact that it existed even before the US, right? and while I am not trying to downplay the significance of the US in the modern political and economic life (i recognize its significance), you have to understand that LHR is not about services to the US only.

regards,
vs11
 
ArgInMIA
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Wed Nov 27, 2002 2:48 pm

Please.. if Mr. Branson wants to have an US based airline he can do so in 5 minutes.. just see how the CUETO family (lan chile)got themselfs Florida West... Just use an american as the owner..
Alto.. Mucho mas alto.. hasta la cumbre
 
fxra
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:05 pm

WHy would anyone in the world think they could start an airline in the US now and be wildly successful?? SO, Mr. Branson by some miracle of Congressional action allowed to start Virgin America, what would be gained. Say he is successful and profitable. But what is the expense?????? US Air, United, Frontier, Jetblue, insert airline here.... will they continue to exist with a new competitor?? WHat about the jobs of those employees of the airlines thatMr. Branson could force to cut back or shut down period?? WIll he hire them. Seriously, supply and demand says right now, in the US market, we don't need another airline, the passengers aren't there. A new entrant will just cause another airline to go away.

Not to doubt Mr. Bransons abilities, but why is it assumed he will easily start up an US airline. So, he went up against BA... in and out of LHR and LGW, and in AUstralia, he was up against QF and ANsett.. Neither market was as saturated with air carriers as the US is. I do however understand he enjoys a challenge.

And now, the EU will set the rules. I wonder how the British will go about enjoying some other countries setting the slots for LHR.... will EU nations automaticly get favorable treatment? Will we see Air France carrying pax form LHR to say GLasgow?? Or conversely BA flying pax from Nice to Marseilles?? (these are just random examples, i have no idea if its currently allowed)

( ON a totally irrelevant side note, how bout a Virgin/Hooters airline.... hrrrmmm).

just my opinion.. of course
Visualize Whirled Peas
 
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Wed Nov 27, 2002 8:51 pm

dont worry any such airline will quickly have half of it sold to another buyer and then morgaged to any old bank that will give tricky dicky more money.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
David_itl
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RE: What Are The Chances For Mr. Branson?

Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:35 pm

I believe the EU does allow any EU arline to operate domestically in an EU country e.g. VLM operates LCY-MAN, Ryanair do STN-PIK & STN-NQY and I'm pretty sure Buzz operate within France.

Why AF would want to operate LHR-GLA when they are some 20 to 25 services daily between bmi & BA? In any case, they would most likely use Fly.be to operate them.

David