ont 737
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:19 am

More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:19 am

The DOT has decided to redistribute 6 *within perimeter* slots and applications are due by Dec 20th. These were originally allocated to Spirit and Midway.

-Taken from 12/5 Aviation Daily
"The slots are to be allocated to new entrants or limited incumbent carriers--those holding 20 or fewer slots at DCA. Service is to be to communities without nonstops or with monopoly nonstops, providing competitive service and low fares."

I believe the article is mistaken DCA's definition of a "slot". Evidenced here..."DOT withdrew Midway's two slots, which it had used for non-stops to RDU." DCA defines a "slot" as either one take off or landing, not one roundtrip. If Midway only had 2 slots they would only be able to have one roundtrip. (They had 2 round trips when they shut down) So technically Midways had 4 slots and there are now 12 slots (6 roundtrips) up for grabs.

Anyway, my money (And wishful thinking) is on Air Tran (ATL, MCO). They have been left out long enough. Who else would be applying.... ATA (IND,MDW), Midwest Express (MKE,MCI), jetBlue (FLL, MCO)?
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:59 am

Actually, Midway only had two slots that it owned. The other slots Midway used were leased from another airline. When Midway went belly-up, those leased slots returned to the lessor. I'm not sure who the lessor was...I think it was either NW, AA or US.

Airtran would like DCA slots, but I'm not sure if six would be financially viable. Three roundtrips a day on ATL-DCA wouldn't be very competitive in a market where DL has 17 daily flights.
 
ont 737
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:19 am

RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 1:15 am

Air Tran already has a few cities with 3 or less flights a day. (MCI, MSP, FPO, and BUF off the top of my head) So if they were given the right to fly 3 ATL-DCA roundtrips I think they would jump on it. Air Tran has enough of a loyal FF base to fill 'em up. It would not be hard to for Air Tran to fill only 3 dailies (717 with only 112 or so seats) even though Delta has a huge presence that route. They could adopt a strategy similar to Frontier's with UA out of DEN.
 
Lindy
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RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 1:34 am

I dont think that AirTran would be interested in any of the slots at DCA. Spirit had 4 slots at DCA and after Sept 11 they didnt wanna go back. Those slots are too expensive for low cost carriers.
US, UA, NW, DL, CO, AA, all of them have more than 20 slots a day so they are out of picture. But what about COX, DLC, AE? Do they count as a mainline or they are under Commuter section?
Midwest Express is already running 3 round trips a day and I dont know if any of the cities they serve would benefit from additional flight.
Its very tough to say who will want some and who will actually get some of the slots at DCA. 15 more days and we can find out who actually applied for them.

Regards,
Rafal
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
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RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:00 am

I can say for a fact that AirTran will be applying for these slots. They make a lot of money to IAD and the passengers have been asking - pleading - with them to add DCA to their system. I've met higher-ups at FL who say that they definetely want slots and gates at DCA, but that they simply haven't been available.

By the way, the FL 717s have 117 seats, not 112.

The real question is whether FL will make its case over other airlines.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:30 am

AirTran at DCA with slots for only 3 roundrips? They'll probably apply, and figure on subleasing or buying more slots later if they get these. With UA and US on the ropes, we might be talking about a *big* turnover at DCA in the next year. With an existing handful of flights, FL would at least have a presence to get started.

FL has 6 dailies on IAD-ATL, and 5 on BWI-ATL. Delta has 10 daily on IAD-ATL and 10 DL/ 1 DLC on BWI-ATL, many of these 757's. So FL is clearly willing to compete with DL on routes where it has well under half as much capacity (just think of ATL-LGA). 3 dailies on DCA-ATL would give them a foothold to get started.

I don't think AirTran would run DCA-BUF, especially because it would probably require 3 roundrips to be competitive with WN at BWI. That would make BUF as FL's only destination from DCA. US used to run 3 higher-fare daily 737's on the route before 9/11, even after WN started its 6-daily BWI-BUF route.

Also, AirTran is running ROC-BWI 3x daily, and that's already putting some squeeze on Southwest at BUF. If FL entered DCA-BWI that would be more or less direct competition, and that hasn't been AirTran's M.O.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:33 am

That is, it hasn't been AirTran's M.O. to compete directly with *Southwest* on routes to medium-size cities. Obviously, AirTran competes with Delta on every FL ATL route to a medium-size city. The traffic on DC Area-Florida is so dense, that AirTran and Southwest can coexist at BWI quite well on those routes (and there was MetroJet slack to pick up, anyway). Sorry if this was unclear.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
Lindy
Posts: 4722
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 10:42 pm

RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:45 am

Hey,

DCA-ROCguy, in fact Delta have 10 daily mianline flights BWI-ATL. All with 757 except one which is B767-200. This morning flight is only for winter season to accomodate all pax going to Florida. Also Delta Connection (ASA) is operating 3 daily round trips between (Flight originating at JFK)-BWI-ATL.

Rafal
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
Flyer732
Posts: 1320
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 6:09 am

RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 3:47 am

I don't know anything about AirTran trying to get into the DCA market, I'd love for it to happen.

I can say that we do have quite a few passengers that have asked if we have any plans to start DCA service...who knows!

~Ryan
 
FutureFO
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RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 5:11 am

FL has IAD/BWI. YX has DCA/IAD. B6 has IAD. TZ already operates to MDW out of DCA. It would be nice to see ACA operate more flites out of DCA for either DL or UA. Which the way things are going it may happen on the UA side
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
ont 737
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:19 am

RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 6:17 am

I would be surprised to see UA get any regional jets into DCA. The only scenario I see is for them to have ACA fly ORD-DCA to compliment (or replace  Innocent ) some of their existing service. (DCA-ORD is UA's only route from DCA now) Delta just ramped up their regional jet service out of DCA. I believe that ACA is over 20 flights a day at DCA now so they would have to find another to get more slots than in this reallocation.
 
Lindy
Posts: 4722
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 10:42 pm

RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 6:34 am

Ok, UAL has 14 daily flights DCA-ORD. They should be called Chicago Shuttle hehe all flights depart at each hour. 6am, 7am, 8am ...... with last flight at 7pm.

ACA is present at DCA only because they fly for Delta Connection using Do-328Jet aircraft. I'm not sure but I think they have only 2 or 3 round trips a day.

Rafal
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
ont 737
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:19 am

RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 6:42 am

I was mistaken. It was ASA and Comair, not ACA, that started the new DCA service. Its hard to keep up with who is flying what for Delta Connection.

"The new Washington service adds flights to Delta Connection’s New York (JFK), Atlanta and Cincinnati schedule, and offers eight new non-stop markets: Charleston, S.C.; Columbus, Ohio; Huntsville, Ala.; and the Florida cities of Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, Ft. Lauderdale and West Palm Beach."
 
elwood64151
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 9:20 am

There's going to be a fight over these slots. Whoever gets them, they'll be mighty pleased that they kept someone else from getting them.

Considering the government's bent on competition, I imagine JetBlue, AirTran or Spirit will get them, depending on if any of them apply. Frontier is not "within perimiter", so I doubt they'd go to them.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
DIA
Posts: 3053
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 9:47 am

*Even though Frontier is not within perimeter, they are applying for a second daily to/from DEN.

DIA
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
mrlineguy
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 4:12 am

RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 10:05 am

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that AirTran is going to apply for the DCA slots. Whether they are granted the slots is another issue. I could see AirTran beginning with 3 daily ATL-DCA 717 flights, adding more if possible in the future. Just my thoughts...

Regards
MrLineGuy
More right rudder...
 
mfricke
Posts: 274
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 3:04 pm

RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 10:09 am

It would be nice if the little start-up, Great Plains Airlines, were to apply for and receive slots for nonstops to Tulsa and/or Oklahoma City.
ONT - Southern California's Ontario!
 
Guest

RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:24 pm

DIA: These aren't beyond perimeter slots. DEN won't be happening.
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:27 pm

Mfricke:

I think GP would have to apply for routes to/from Nashville (do they still service BNA?) to keep them within the perimiter.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 1:33 pm

Hmmm....if JetBlue applies, I'm not sure if they'd use them to JFK, at least not yet. A DCA-JFK route would essentially compete with the US, DL, and AA DCA-LGA shuttles. JetBlue would likely want more DCA slots than that if they were going to charge into that particular battle. 3 daily roundtrips wouldn't offer effective competition, I'm not sure if they'd want to do that.

Within-perimeter would close out DEN, OAK, and LGB. The DC market is dense enough that, say 2 daily FLL/ 1 daily MCO would probably flourish alongside JetBlue's IAD services to FLL. But these cities would not offer the highest yield B6 could get out of DCA slots. They'd probably fly these routes as "placeholders" until they can get hold of say enough slots for 3-4 more round trips, *then* launch a DCA-JFK route with 6-7 dailies. A year or so ago Neeleman talked about wanting to get into the NY-DC market, which he considered artifically depressed by high network-carrier fares.

Question: PEOPLExpress flew DCA-EWR in the 1980's. I seem to remember them running close to shuttle frequencies--10 or 12 dailies, or something like that. How did PE get all those slots? Did they buy them, or sublease them?

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
gocaps16
Posts: 4138
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2000 9:14 am

RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:00 pm

I have a question.

Who took over National Airlines's 2 slots when they went down under or did the DOT also added these additional slots under Midway and National?

Kevin/Norfolk, VA
 
Guest

RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Fri Dec 06, 2002 10:13 pm

Delta was awarded N7's slot the other to operate once daily DCA-SLC service.
 
srbmod
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA.....

Sat Dec 07, 2002 3:23 am

AirTran has tried several times in the last few years to get DCA access. AirTran will succeed this time, because they're probably the only airline who is applying for them that is in decent shape. In order to really make DCA a success, they would have to have 10 flights a day out of there, and not just to ATL. If they do get DCA slots, I predict that the station @ IAD will eventually be closed in favor of DCA as AirTran got more slots. By having slots @ DCA, AirTran can get more gov't contracts, and attract more business travelers as well. If I had my choice, I'd rather fly into DCA than IAD, because getting into town from IAD is a pain, while getting into town from DCA is nice and easy. No matter what method you take it will take you about an hour to get from IAD to downtown D.C., and it takes about half that time from DCA. DCA is somewhere AirTran has been salivating to fly to, because they know their formula would work very well for them there.

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