BA
Topic Author
Posts: 10134
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Experts Say Denver (DEN) Will See Few Cuts

Wed Dec 11, 2002 10:34 am

Interesting article about the Denver air market and how experts predict it will see few United cuts:
http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRMN_4_1597193,00.html

55.3% of the passengers that go through DEN are O&D (Origin & Destination) which is a strong percentage.

Not only is DEN a large air travel market, but it's also high yielding.

Here's another similar article from Denver International Airport (requires Adobe Acrobat Reader):
http://www.flydenver.com/pr/DIAPR_021210.pdf

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
trickijedi
Posts: 3201
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 4:35 pm

RE: Experts Say Denver (DEN) Will See Few Cuts

Wed Dec 11, 2002 12:08 pm

Wow, I think 53% of Denver OD traffic is surprisingly low. I really thought that figure would be higher, more like DFW's 60% or so.

I agree that cuts at DEN will be minimal as it makes an excellent city to be United's "gateway to the West" in the new plan. UA has also had fairly heavy investments at DEN in the past. Consequently, I expect cuts to be more substantial at both LAX and SFO. As far as ORD is concerned, I think that the percentage of cuts for both DEN and ORD will be pretty aligned... as cuts at both cities will have a direct corellation with each other.
Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
 
BA
Topic Author
Posts: 10134
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Experts Say Denver (DEN) Will See Few Cuts

Wed Dec 11, 2002 12:17 pm

Trickijedi,

Denver is the 10th busiest airport in the world in passenger movement.

Considering that Denver is a city with 2.7 million (18th largest metro in the nation) and has an O&D of over 50% for an extremely busy airport is really quite impressive.

Dallas is a huge city, and unlike Denver other airlines have a decent market share.

In DEN, United and United Express make up 64% of the marketshare which is a lot. Not sure what American Airlines makes up in Dallas. But there is considerable competition by other airlines to balance things out. That's not the case with Denver as much.

Also roughly 2 years ago, United had 78% of the marketshare in Denver which is crazy.

This was before the Frontier Airlines "boom" and the introduction of new airlines and further expansion by the majors.

Also, Denver's fares are among the highest in the country, MUCH higher than in Dallas which will of course greatly change the O&D figures. The average fare in Denver is 25% above the nations average.

Phoenix is swarmed by low-fare carriers Southwest, and America West and as a result O&D is also high there, even higher than Denver.

Those of you who tried to book a flight to Denver know what I'm talking about. Flying to Denver is expensive and many here in Colorado are always complaining about how high the fares are. That's why Coloradans are desperate for Southwest.

Of course, that would ruin Colorado's high-yield reputation.  Smile

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Experts Say Denver (DEN) Will See Few Cuts

Wed Dec 11, 2002 12:38 pm

It makes me miss Western Pacific a bit... I remember when people would drive to COS from DEN just to fly on WP.

I think WP might have made it had the new CEO that followed Ed Beauvais not decided to move to DEN and compete with both UA and F9. Idiot.

Anyway I think COS would be a great Southwest city... I know its small and doesn't meet the Southwest guidelines per se, but its not a bad place to come in for skiing, and god knows they have a whole airport down there with a separate terminal that the city built for WP that isn't being used.

N
 
BA
Topic Author
Posts: 10134
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Experts Say Denver (DEN) Will See Few Cuts

Wed Dec 11, 2002 12:42 pm

Gigneil,

COS isn't small for Southwest at all. It's plenty big enough.

Southwest serves MANY cities smaller than COS. In Texas, they serve cities that are 1/4 the size of COS.

Don't forget, Colorado Springs has slightly more than half a million people. It's a good sized city.

Southwest supposidly has COS #4 on it's list. But Southwest only adds roughly 2 to 3 new cities a year, and this year won't be adding any and supposidly next year won't be adding any.

Soonest COS can see Southwest is in 2004, although I think it wouldn't be before 2005 at the earliest.

One of there concerns has been weather. Weather in COS is particularily bad with fierce thunderstorms in the Fall which delay many flights. Southwest doesn't like delays.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13223
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Experts Say Denver (DEN) Will See Few Cuts

Wed Dec 11, 2002 12:48 pm

Hey BA,

I was looking for the "Official homepage" of DIA when I came across this, what the heck are these people talking about?

http://www.geocities.com/Baja/5692/

I remember an old Sci-fi network show called "sightings" which did a story on DIA.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Experts Say Denver (DEN) Will See Few Cuts

Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:49 pm

Wow, that website's crazy. DEN does have a major effort put in toward cultural art and so on, but I doubt they're gonna use it to take over the world.

BA,

Yeah I grew up in COS unfortunately. Sometimes I forget that a city with 500,000 people can subsist with virtually nothing to do.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Is there such a device that can dispel fog around the runways? And do heated runways exist?

These are just a few of the many rumors surrounding the new COS airport while it was being built. A lot of it was attributed to the heavy military use of both runways. The CS Gazette-Telegraph published some of the strangest things, none of it is so far fetched not to be believable but I've just never heard of such things.

Its a really nice airport actually. I miss the UA DC-10 that frequently parked at gate 12 overnight, and the LH 747 that was there during ski season a few years back.

N
 
cloudy
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:23 pm

RE: Experts Say Denver (DEN) Will See Few Cuts

Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:31 pm

I'm really surprised WN is not in COS already. The airport authority has done allot to try and attract them. If United makes significant cutbacks - my guess is they would snap at the opportunity as soon as they could. But they also have Frontier to consider. The trouble is, the Denver area has both a fortress hub and low fare competition - both of which WN avoids like the plague.

Just how much international service does United have at Denver? My guess would be that international feed would be nearly as important as yield in deciding which domestic routes United keeps.
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Experts Say Denver (DEN) Will See Few Cuts

Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:33 pm

Cloudy, almost no international service at all. The only year round is to a few cities in Canada.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Experts Say Denver (DEN) Will See Few Cuts

Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:43 pm

They do codeshare on LH flights to FRA and MX flights to somewhere...

N
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8007
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Experts Say Denver (DEN) Will See Few Cuts

Wed Dec 11, 2002 10:09 pm

I think there is another reason why WN has NOT started service to COS: the very fear it could drive UA into economic ruin.

The folks in the southern suburbs of Denver are more than happy to patronize any airline that can establish a large presence at COS--and WN is a natural for that airport.

I personally believe there is some sort of gentlemen's agreement in place between UA and WN that keeps WN out of COS until UA gets back on good financial standing.
 
cloudy
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:23 pm

RE: Experts Say Denver (DEN) Will See Few Cuts

Wed Dec 11, 2002 10:17 pm

I'm sure that WN's management are generally good and benevolant people.
But I'm not sure if they would avoid COS just to help out United.

What about Vanguard in Kansas City? Or Usair in BWI?

And what about the United Shuttle and all the other tricks United has pulled on them through the years?

If WN is so concerned about United, why the new longhauls out of MDW?

Perhaps, though, they are keeping an old agreement made when United was stronger. An agreement that was made in exchange for concessions in other markets. Perhaps the Chicago market? One never knows....