keesje
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Who Are UAL's Biggest Creditors? They 'll Rule ..

Thu Dec 12, 2002 9:46 pm

The papers are filed, the judge has been assigned and the CEO is reassuring customers and employees. But the most important player in the UAL bankruptcy won't be named until Friday.

That's when federal bankruptcy trustee Ira Bodenstein will convene a meeting of the creditors to whom United Airlines' parent (UAL: news, chart, profile) owes more than $20 billion. From that group he'll form the creditors committee, which will drive much of what happens next.

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http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7B26489BE3%2D3B83%2D403A%2DA59C%2DB0D159CBEED5%7D

Who are those creditors ? Airbus ? Boeing, Banks, US Government ? They basicly want to get as much money back out of UAL as possible ... no ideology here ..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
cloudy
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RE: Who Are UAL's Biggest Creditors? They 'll Rule ..

Thu Dec 12, 2002 10:12 pm

Look on the smokinggun.com (not sure if that is the exact URL) and you will find a copy of the bankruptcy filing. and a direct link to a list of the 20 largest creditors. Airbus and Boeing are both on it.

BTW, the largest creditors don't always get paid first. First priority goes to DIP (Debtor in possesion) creditors - those who have provided cash to help United get through the bankruptcy process. Next comes secured creditors - those who have some sort of asset backing up their loan. Unsecured creditors come last. Usually there is nothing left for stockholders or other owners.

But this is the order of payment. I'm not sure who has the most "votes" or "clout" in influencing the bankruptcy court or creditor's commitee. Is this decided by how much is owed to who, or by type of creditor, or something else?
 
keesje
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RE: Who Are UAL's Biggest Creditors? They 'll Rule ..

Thu Dec 12, 2002 10:49 pm

Bank of New York, US Bank trust, HSBC Bank, Bank One Trust, Indiana Governm are the biggest creditors, Airbus $47mln, Boeing $2.3mln.

Seems like the Banks & Governements will have the final say.

Hope the Banks won't write of losses and go for a "quick" & dirty chapter 7 ....

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/unitedbank14.html
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
keesje
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RE: Who Are UAL's Biggest Creditors? They 'll Rule ..

Thu Dec 19, 2002 5:33 pm

Airbus at the controls at United ....

The unsecured creditors committee for the Chapter 11 reorganization of UAL Corp. , parent company of United Airlines, has chosen Airbus North American Holdings Inc. as its permanent committee chair.

The Air Line Pilots Association and Bank of New York Co. (BK) were picked as vice chairs of the committee.

http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/021218/1130000538_1.html

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
artsyman
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RE: Who Are UAL's Biggest Creditors? They 'll Rule ..

Thu Dec 19, 2002 5:50 pm

The likes of Boeing and Airbus will not want to liquidate United if they can avoid it. Firstly it means one less extremely major customer to buy planes from them, and secondly it means the second had market gets flooded with about 500 planes that will not help sales at either manufacturer

Jeremy
 
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RE: Who Are UAL's Biggest Creditors? They 'll Rule ..

Thu Dec 19, 2002 6:06 pm

jeremy - business don't think like that.

because, if liquidating the company is the only move, and they don't do it, instead injecting more cash in a dying business, then they'll just lose that cash and postpone that momenet when those 500 planes are released to the market and a large customer is lost.

tnnh
 
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RE: Who Are UAL's Biggest Creditors? They 'll Rule ..

Thu Dec 19, 2002 6:07 pm

that's interesting though - that UAL, the US' largest airline, is now sort of effectively being managed by Airbus and EADS in Europe.

Kind of an interesting day for American aviation, as well as an interesting tale of globalization.

tnnh
 
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coronado
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RE: Who Are UAL's Biggest Creditors? They 'll Rule ..

Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:20 am

Interesting that way back in its history United and Boeing were one company until the government ordered the split of the manufacturing side from the transportation service side.

United Aircraft & Transport Company was formed by Bill Boeing in 1929-1930, as he put together the manufacuring companies Boeing Airplane Co, Pratt & Whitney, Chance Vought; Hamilton Standard Proppeller Co, Sikorski, Stearman, Northrop AircraftVarney, to the transportation compnaies--his own Boeing Air Tranport, and then Pacific Air Transport PAT , to which they then added the acquired Varney and National Air Transport NAT.

In 1934 the government ordered the split up of what was by far the dominant aviation enterprise in the US, with the Boeing Aircraft and Stearman being split off and becoming free standing. while the other manufacturing companies spinning off to creat United Aircraft, and the transportation subsidiaries becoming United Air Lines.

What the old timers must be thinking in their graves! They now have a relative start up, Airbus, and a ''foreign'' company at that, in a leadership role in what are effectively United Airlines new group of owners. The existing shareholders are most certainly wiped out, perhaps not formally yet by means of a judges reorganization decree, but de facto.
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
 
ContinentalFan
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RE: Who Are UAL's Biggest Creditors? They 'll Rule

Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:31 am

Airbus is the chair of the unsecured debtor committee, but the banks listed before are the ones really in charge, since they are secured (or DIP) creditors and have precedence.
 
737heavy
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RE: Who Are UAL's Biggest Creditors? They 'll Rule ..

Fri Dec 20, 2002 1:27 am

As sad as it sounds the whole industry would benefit from the loss of a such a large airline.

Regards
 
keesje
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RE: Who Are UAL's Biggest Creditors? They 'll Rule ..

Fri Dec 20, 2002 1:51 am


The Creditors' Committee is comprised of 13 creditors: Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., the Association of Flight Attendants, the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), the International Association of Machinists, The Bank of New York, AIRBUS NORTH AMERICA, Pratt & Whitney, HSBC Bank USA, US Bank National Association, R Squared Investments, ** DEUTSCHE LUFTHANSA **, Goodrich Corp. and Galileo International. The City of Chicago and the San Francisco Airport Commission are ex officio members.


Lufthansa is also in there, are they exposed in UAL ?!?!

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/021219/192305_1.html
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway

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