FLY777UAL
Topic Author
Posts: 4830
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

Flights To Berlin

Sat Nov 06, 1999 4:20 pm

Why don't any (most) airlines offer service to and from Berlin? I was surprised to see that LH had flights from LAX only to FRA and MUC, but not SXF (Berlin Schonfield).

I think that if an airline in LA flew an A340-200 each day, and offered quick and easy connections onto Deutsche BA throughout Europe, the airline might not do too bad...

What do you all think?

FLY777UAL
 
TriStar
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 9:03 pm

RE: Flights To Berlin

Sat Nov 06, 1999 5:06 pm

I may be mistaken, but I think the Schonfield airport is too small -that is, the runways are too short- to allow heavy traffic. I've heard there will be a new, bigger airport in Berlin in the not-so-distant future, said to be called Brandenburg Airport.

Does anyone else have any input on that?

TriStar
 
The777Man
Posts: 5913
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: Flights To Berlin

Sat Nov 06, 1999 6:41 pm

I think Tristar is referring to Templehof and not Schoenefeld or Tegel. There are no direct or nonstop flights at all from North America to Berlin, not even from the east coast. American, TWA and Delta Air Lines used to fly to Berlin, usually with a stop somewhere but all these carriers stopped three-four years ago. I guess there's not enough traffic. Singapore Airlines also stopped flying to Berlin in the last year. Maybe in a few years when Berlin is more established as Germany's capital, there may be enough traffic to the US eastcoast. I think Lufthansa or United Airlines should start flying LAX-MUC nonstop in addition to the FRA flights. The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
TriStar
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 9:03 pm

Tempelhof

Sat Nov 06, 1999 7:20 pm

I think you may be right, 777Man. ;-)
I probably *was* referring to Tempelhof, basically because that's the airport in Berlin I'm most accustomed with. When I'm on a flight to Berlin, it's always Tempelhof...

What's up with the new Brandenburg thing, though? Does anyone have any news on that? I heard Virgin Express would be flying there. Or have they started flying their B737s to another Berlin airport?

TriStar
 
flumuc
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 4:38 am

RE: Tempelhof

Sat Nov 06, 1999 7:59 pm

You always fly to Tempelhof??? I think that Tempelhof is the smallest of the Berlin airports, and its not served by Lufthansa and not by Deutsche BA. With which airline do you fly to Tempelhof??
Lufthansa just serves Berlin/Tegel
 
TriStar
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 9:03 pm

RE: Tempelhof

Sat Nov 06, 1999 9:00 pm

That would be Sabena, Flumuc. Flights are operated with Avro RJs. Small airports often have huge advantages. Look at LCY; good slots and good accessibility to the center of town.

TriStar
 
Speedbird988G
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 1999 11:30 pm

RE: Flights To Berlin

Sat Nov 06, 1999 11:39 pm

OK, guys here is what I think.
I am from Berlin and I know the Airports here.
Schoenfeld is not to small for the bigger aircrafts. There are some flights
to Singapore served by Singapore Airlines with B747-400.
It's the problem that Germany has a lot of big airports like Munich, Frankfurt
and Dusseldorf and so the airlines fly to these airports and do codesharing
to Berlin.

The other thing is that Berlin will get a big international airport in a few years.

By the way some US airlines took service to Berlin for example Delta Airlines and TWA. But this is long ago.

But it is very sad that you cannot see any big airplanes at Berlin Tegel.
I hope this getting better before the new big airport is build.

Speedbird988G
Always happy landings... Berni
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: Flights To Berlin

Sun Nov 07, 1999 12:06 am

The run-down of the three Berlin Airports:

Berlin-Schönefeld: Primarily is served by the former Eastern Bloc countries, and other former communist countries, as Schönefeld was the only airport in the former East Berlin.

Berlin-Tempelhof: Was the major airport of West Berlin (american sector) up until the past 15 years. Still seved today by GA, and small European commuters.

Berlin-Tegel: Is the newest airport, as well as the biggest, airport in the Berlin area. Built by the French in the former French sector of West Berlin, today serves as the main airport to Berlin. Tegel is served by most major European airlines, but is very limited to long-haul. Delta used (maybe they still do, i dont know) to fly into Tegel, but through either Amsterdam or Frankfurt and Munich.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
gardermoen
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 9:52 pm

RE: Flights To Berlin

Sun Nov 07, 1999 2:55 am

In the early 90s, Berlin also received Air Lanka(weekly from Colombo) and Japan Airlines from Tokyo.

I am confused as to how many airports there are in Berlin. There's Templehof, Tegel and Schonefeld, right? Are they all civilian airports? And when will Brandenburg open?
 
flumuc
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 4:38 am

RE: Flights To Berlin

Sun Nov 07, 1999 3:02 am

i dont think that they will build the big airport, its too big. There are 2 very huge airports in germany and thats enough and i dont think that a new airport is a reason for an airline to fly to the city where the new airport is.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Flights To Berlin

Sun Nov 07, 1999 3:05 am

Without even seeing this post, I just did an exhaustive reply to another post about why ex-commie airlines still use Schonefeld. Here's what I put:
Berlin has three airports - Tegel, Templehof and Schonefeld. Before the Iron Curtain came down, Schonefeld was in East Berlin and Tegel was in West Berlin, as was Templehof, which is smaller. Schonefeld is the biggest of the three, and was the hub for Interflug, the East German (commie) national airline. It was a fully-fledged international airport, with Interflug operating scheduled flights to Havana and other parts of Central and South America, throughout Africa and to places like Hanoi and North Korea. All the Commie Bloc airlines used it, and since it is an equal distance from the centre of Berlin, there was no need for them to move to the more congested Tegel. That is why even after the Wall came down, the old Eastern Bloc countries continued using it. I think Schonefeld is going to be the one to be developed now that Berlin is becoming the capital of the reunified nation, since it's got two really long runways (god bless those old Il62s)and masses of room for expansion as it's in open countryside. Tegel is a pain in the arse, really congested and over-stretched.

Tegel and Templehof never developed because West Berlin was a Western enclave within a Communist country, and to get there by air you had to descend to 10,000 feet and fly through one of three designated 'corridors' at a slower speed (220 knts, sometimes 250). This made it unsuitable for long-haul services, so these two airports never grew beyond 737-type flights. I guess there would have been long-haul charters and VIP flights, but FRA was always the long-haul port of entry to West Germany. Templehof was the airport used in the Berlin Airlift, when the city was completely cut off and everything including all food, fuel, coal etc had to be flown in. The airport is small and surrounded by apartment buildings and is like London City airport, a commuter and GA facility with props and BAe 146s. The approach is really steep because of the obstacles. Lots of history at all three."

I don't know why Berlin is so unprofitable nowadays for airlines, arrival restrictions having been lifted ten years ago. When I worked in aviation between 1990 and 1995, many airlines attempted London to Berlin (including LH) and the route was always dropped. Heathrow has a service but probably only on or two a day, but Gatwick lost it's LH flight, and since then a number of others have lost money, such as Dan-Air and latterly AB Airlines, who downgraded from 737s to BAC111s and since their bankruptcy the route authority remains dormant. Same with long-haul services such as SQ and the US airlines mentioned above.

fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
The777Man
Posts: 5913
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: Brandenburg Intl

Sun Nov 07, 1999 7:01 am

Brandenburg Airport is the new name for a refurbished Schoenefeld which will get a new terminal among other things. I think they will close Templehof and Tegel when Brandenburg opens in a few years.The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777