AC330
Topic Author
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 4:20 am

Virgin Atlantic To Yyz?

Tue Dec 17, 2002 1:38 pm

Hi there! I know there has been some talk about this before, but I am going to bring it up again. Back in October I was reading a Toronto Airport aviation newspaper that I found at the airport and it mentioned something about the possibility of Virgin Atlantic returning to YYZ. Has anybody heard anything?? Any info would be great! Thanks,

AC330
 
VS11
Posts: 876
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic To Yyz?

Tue Dec 17, 2002 2:17 pm

Virgin does not plan to come back to Toronto in the foreseeable future.
hope this helps

regards,
vs11
 
Ikarus
Posts: 3391
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:18 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic To Yyz?

Tue Dec 17, 2002 4:35 pm

I have no information or anything, but my own speculation (i.e. pure guesswork!) is this: Virgin will concentrate on opening routes to Sydney next year (presumably via Hong Kong). Once that is up and running, they might introduce a second routing to Sydney and open a new route at the same time - i.e. London-Dubai-Sydney, or they might try and reach Sydney via Los Angeles as well. The eventual aim would be a mini-hub in Australia that could be turned into an independent operation (the long awaited Virgin Pacific), but that would still be years away...

Toronto and Vancouver would presumably still be on Virgin's list of destinations to expand to, just not in 2003. Perhaps in 2004 or 2005 again. My feeling is they'd start routes to both cities simultaneously next time. Definitely not until the Iraq thing is over - until then any airline starting a connection to North America would be stupid.

Regards

Ikarus

 
flyinghighboy
Posts: 721
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2001 8:06 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic To Yyz?

Tue Dec 17, 2002 5:24 pm

Dubai to Syd? Compete against EK I see, they'd need at least a A345 or the new LR planes from Boeing
 
slawko
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic To Yyz?

Wed Dec 18, 2002 1:59 am

"until then any airline starting a connection to North America would be stupid. "

WHy do you say that??? Britain is more involved with the American's "fight against terror" or what ever CNN is calling it this week, then Canada is..

I dont think that the threat of this war has anything to do with VS not flying to Canada, they just have other markets that have more potential right now, AC and BA have so many LHR flights that unless VS can secure some room at LHR for Canada they will be operating at a disatvantage...There are just too many flights for the size of the market right now...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
gmonney
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2001 2:59 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic To Yyz?

Wed Dec 18, 2002 4:02 am

I feel that Air Canada will soon have to reduce frequency to some of these cities that they have like 5 or 6 flights to, i personally think they may have to reduce their YYZ-LHR frequency because of simply they have to save money. At that time when the demand will be there VS may be able to fly profitably to YYZ.

Grant

P.S. Isn't BA adding a third flight 3 or 4 times a week in the summer?? That will hurt AC and limit the chance of VS at YYZ.
Drive it like you stole it!
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic To Yyz?

Wed Dec 18, 2002 4:26 am

If Air Canada is profitably doing the LHR flights, and can take the competition from BA with their proposed 3 daily flights during the summer, then I say that's a good thing. If they see demand drop after BA adds more frequencies, then it's a good time to deploy the aircraft on different routes.

But as I said in another thread, YYZ is a hub or gateway for Air Canada, and it not only means traffic from YYZ to LHR, but also traffic going to YYZ to connect onwards to LHR and also traffic flying to YYZ then other destinations on the Star Alliance network. Of course, BA has the advantage of being able to take passengers from LHR to a whole bunch of other destinations and Air Canada can't compete as well in that regard. I'd think Germany is a more important destination than the UK for the simple fact that Lufthansa is Air Canada's partner in the Star Alliance and has a great network from there.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
C-GRYK
Posts: 728
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 4:55 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic To Yyz?

Wed Dec 18, 2002 4:40 am

Nuno, Germany a more important destination than the UK for AC? Then, how come AC has 4 daily YYZ-LHR runs while they only have 2 daily YYZ-FRA?? Don't forget that BMI has a pretty large European network out of LHR. SAS and LH also have a big presence there.

Yes, BA can take people to many different places from one end of that route, but so can AC from their hub in Toronto. So I'd imagine the two can compete fairly evenly for the business traffic.

In terms of VS, let's not forget they flew VS047/048 from Gatwick and not Heathrow, I don't think Virgin has extra slots at Heathrow to open up a Toronto flight. It seems Virgin wasn't trying to compete so much with AC or BA for the high end business traffic that LHR gets but for the VFR/Holiday traffic against C3/TS out of LGW.

There is nothing in the works as of right now for VS flights to Toronto, but I've heard many times Sir Richard wants to get back into Canada and he will do so within the next few years. So if I hear anything, I'll post it up here.

And I don't think VS will go in on the LHR-YYZ route for their return, I think they would stick to LGW and use the higher Y configured 744s for the route.

Jeremy
A BIG supporter of VS returning to YYZ
Think before you type!
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic To Yyz?

Wed Dec 18, 2002 4:53 am

Jeremy, I agree as I said above, BA can take people on to other destinations with their massive network out of LHR, and the same holds true for AC out of YYZ. So yes, that is fairly even. What I wasn't aware of was the network that BMI has out of LHR. If what you say is true, then there is a lot to gain for AC in LHR. But I still think that Germany is very important for Air Canada, and is why they want to increase frequencies, for example to Munich. Lufthansa does have a huge network out of Germany, and Air Canada profits from this.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
slawko
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic To Yyz?

Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:36 am

What is it nuno a gateway or a hub????  Smile  Smile
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic To Yyz?

Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:44 am

Slawko, don't get me started again!!! You know full well that Air Canada funnels many passengers to Toronto and onwards to other destinations. From my primitive knowledge in aviation ops, that means YYZ is a hub, or as another member said, it's only a gateway. Say what you want. The Canadian airline industry may be predominantly point to point, but Toronto is still a hub for Air Canada!
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
slawko
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic To Yyz?

Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:28 am

Gateway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic To Yyz?

Wed Dec 18, 2002 7:11 am

Dubai to Syd? Compete against EK I see, they'd need at least a A345 or the new LR planes from Boeing

Not so sure we'll see VS purchasing 777s any time soon... Branson served as Airbus' unofficial Anti-ETOPS poster-baby during the Farnborough presentation of the A346/A345.

Interestingly enough, DJ may become an all-ETOPS operating airline. Oh the hypocrisy!!  Laugh out loud
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!

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