MSYtristar
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More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 1:31 am

As of 2/1/03, both F9 DEN-MSY nonstops will be flown with A319's. This is good to see, as MSY already sees too many 737's on a daily basis.

On a side note, it looks like US Airways will be expanding A320 service into New Orleans next month, with about 5 flights a day on that aircraft. Also, look for Sunday A321 service to Charlotte to start next month.

And for something completely unrelated to the topic but still pretty damn cool, starting 1/1/03, seven out of nine Delta flights from Atlanta to New Orleans will be flown with Boeing 767's. Gotta love it!

Tom..what's the scoop with jetBlue moving to Concourse C? Seems like they should have used gate C1, they would have had it all to themselves.
I also heard that CO is moving to the Delta lobby very shortly.


Steve in New orleans
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 1:49 am

Arent C1, C3, C5 reserved mostly for int'l arrivals (TACA and charters)? I know F9 took one of them. Perhaps moving B6 into another would be too much...

From what I hear, WN is to someday take all of Concourses A and B, just as "soon" as CO, US, and NW can be moved elsewhere.

Also, you may be thrilled if the rumors are true and LH chooses to initiate nonstop service here. My only hope is that they'll use one of their neat new A330s (not likely) instead of those yucky A340s.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
BA
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 7:25 am

My only hope is that they'll use one of their neat new A330s (not likely) instead of those yucky A340s.

Why should it matter, the cabins are nearly identical. The A330 isn't any more comfortable......
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 7:43 am

"Why should it matter, the cabins are nearly identical. The A330 isn't any more comfortable......"

No technical reason other than the fact that I generally prefer traversing longhauls aboard twinjets as opposed to quads. Also, the eerily silent A340 cabin gives me the creeps... I tend to take comfort if I can hear a good hum from the engines, dont know why that is.

Heck, I dont really care what they use, I'd just be happy to see MSY finally reestablish nonstop transatlantics on a reputable carrier.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
BA
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 7:56 am

Too much of a hum is not always a good thing. One could think the engine may be running at too high of a power which isn't dangerous.

It doesn't matter whether the plane I'm on has 2, 3, or 4 engines. In terms of extra safety, of course 4 engines are safer than 2 engines.

As for preference, it doesn't matter to me.

I assume you like the Concorde because of your name. The Concorde has 4 engines.  Smile
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 8:18 am

of course 4 engines are safer than 2 engines.

Let's hear it for anecdotal statements! I'm guessing you didnt fair well in statistics, correct?  Big grin

I assume you like the Concorde because of your name. The Concorde has 4 engines

I assume you like BA, because of your name. Ever known that BA operates Concorde almost completely to ETOPS standards because of its twinjet-like flight characteristics as well as the proximity of its engines (which has been known to cause its own share of problems, especially during uncontained failures)? Lowers their insurance, keeps pilots happy, etc...
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 8:39 am

Lets have a big round of applause for ETOPS.... making our quads safer.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

N
 
MSYtristar
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 8:46 am

Apparently JetBlue will share gate C3 with Frontier. C1 (former Vanguard gate) is used by United to overnight an aircraft as well as Intl. charters, and C5 is Taca's gate.

Concordeboy, I would LOVE to see MSY get a Transatlantic flight, and I think an airline like LH could make it work, thanks to the tons of connections from FRA, and the booming tourist and cruise ship market in New Orleans. I think a twice-weekly ot thrice-weekly Airbus 330/340 nonstop would do great.

Steve in MSY
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:02 am

I'd personally rather see AF send one of their A332s or even their soon-to-be-defunct 763ERs over here..... but not gonna happen any time soon. Aside from Star's current UA woes and the dread of having to ride a @#$%! A340, I'd love to see Lufty here as well!  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
BA
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:09 am

Let's hear it for anecdotal statements! I'm guessing you didnt fair well in statistics, correct?

I'm sorry, but you just can't deny this fact. It should be commen sense and should not be argued. An A340 even with it's weak little engines can stay up in the air with 1 engine operating. That's losing 3 of it's 4 engines. On the A330, it can only lose 1 engine and still stay in the air.

Losing 3 engines or losing 1 engine? This shouldn't be a hard concept.

I am not in ANY way saying twin engined aircraft are unsafe. I fly on the 777 more than any other aircraft now when it comes to transatlantic crossings and I absolutely love that aircraft. Infact, if you check my profile. It's my favorite modern airliner. Turbofan engines advanced greatly over the years and have become extremely reliable that twin-engined aircraft like the 777 are extremely safe.

However, you cannot deny that having more than 2 engines is safer. Even me, a 777 lover doesn't deny this fact because it's the truth. Life is a risk, and if an accident is going to happen, it's going to happen. Which is why it doesn't matter whether I fly a 777 or a 747. They are all safe aircraft. However when something does go wrong, you cannot deny the fact that having an extra 2 engines is better.

It's simple logic. Anyone can see that.

Ever known that BA operates Concorde almost completely to ETOPS standards because of its twinjet-like flight characteristics as well as the proximity of its engines (which has been known to cause its own share of problems, especially during uncontained failures)? Lowers their insurance, keeps pilots happy, etc...

Yes I know that, however my point being was that it's a 4-engined aircraft.

Lets have a big round of applause for ETOPS.... making our quads safer.

ETOPs has nothing to do with 4-engined aircraft with the exception of the Concorde.

ETOPs stand for Extended Twin Operations and determines how long a twin engine aircraft can fly over a body of water with 1 engine.

Aircraft that recieve 180 minute ETOPs can operate 180 minutes away from land. Many times ETOPs ends up making certain ocean flights longer than they could be if they are operated on a 4-engine aircraft since ETOPs doesn't apply to them.

This especially affects Asia flights which is why the 747 is still a popular aircraft for Transpacific crossings. Also as I'm sure you know, Asian flights are very high density which is another reason the 747 is popular for Asian flights. But that's besides the point.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Rick767
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:38 am

This kind of thing crops up here every once in a while. 4 engines safer than 2 etc... load of rubbish.

"Aircraft that recieve 180 minute ETOPs can operate 180 minutes away from land"

"can fly over a body of water with 1 engine"


Must disagree with you on both of these counts. ETOPS has nothing to do with water and land, just suitable airports. We must fly ETOPS on the 767 down through Africa at night (when most airports close). There is no water involved here - just a lack of suitable airport availability.

Having 2 extra engines is not safer IMO. Twice as likely that something nasty will happen to them for one. A twin can fly fine one 1 engine, 3 hours from an airport at single engine cruise speed.

Ask yourself the question "why do multiple engine failures occur?". Two reasons really - fuel starvation / contamination and flight into volcanic ash. Unfortunately in either of these circumstances on your 747 / A340 all four engines will fail (and they have done in the past too!).

So you're no safer in a quad than a twin are you?
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:43 am

I tend to take comfort if I can hear a good hum from the engines, dont know why that is.

Well then, you'd hate the front rows of the 717-200. You can only hear the engine expel a whisper, but you ain't gonna get no hum. Maybe a short vibration or 2, but that is it. (Which is why I sit in the back)
Puhdiddle
 
Tom in NO
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:46 am

Sorry, guys, been out of pocket for a couple of days (gone from work, family matters). Here are some comments regarding the above:

1) CO's move to concourse D and the DL ticket lobby occurs overnight tonight, I believe. It's one of those 'last plane in, move computers, planes, everything during the night, restart everything from new area in morning' deals.

2) JetBlue is now loading at gate C3, with Frontier. Ticket counter to stay in DL's lobby for now. Hadn't heard the news about the 319's starting here. Good for us, now my 4-year old daughter can add more tail pictures to her Frontier montage in herroom.

3) All counters closest to the front doors are out, or coming out to make more room for the EDS machines which will be here imminently.

4) As far LH, I haven't heard anything new, as for me, just bring something in, I don't care if it's a twin or a quad.

5) Ultimate plan is for Southwest occupy all of A and B. But more gates are needed on D to accomodate US and NW (gates that need to be added on to D).

Tom in NO (at MSY)
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
gigneil
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:50 am

ETOPs has nothing to do with 4-engined aircraft with the exception of the Concorde.

BA, I disagree. You may be correct by matter of regulation, but not necessarily by policy.

More and more engines used on quads are developed to stringent ETOPS requirements, and more and more airlines are maintaining their quads with ETOPS procedures as well.

Many of the redundant systems necessary for ETOPS are being ordered as options by airlines for their quads as well.

This gives quads an advantage over their twin-engined siblings once again. Hence my comment... ETOPS, making our quads safer.

And others- please, we had this statistical debate not too long ago. Mathematically, a quad is safer than a twin given similar maintenance policy. There's nothing anyone can say or do to debate that. Whether is true in practicality or not, doesn't matter much.

Move on.

N
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 10:07 am

I'm sorry, but you just can't deny this fact.
Considering that it's not an actual fact, I can very easily do so  Big grin


An A340 even with it's weak little engines can stay up in the air with 1 engine operating
At empty weight+fuel and with 0% deration, it might... but not with anythign remotely resembling a payload typical of an intercontinental operation. A340s dont even have to be certified to take off nor fly at anything less than 75% power!


However when something does go wrong, you cannot deny the fact that having an extra 2 engines is better.
Perhaps you should research the proper diction of the word "fact"  Laugh out loud.
From an mechanical perspective, your statement has somewhat of an arguementative value. From a non-operational point of view.... tell me this: in the event of a hijacking (a very REAL reality now), a fuel loss, an electrical failure, a medical emergency, the smell of smoke, etc; would you rather be within 2-3hr diversion distance, or have 2 engines for "safety"? Just wondering  Big grin


ETOPs stand for Extended Twin Operations and determines how long a twin engine aircraft can fly over a body of water with 1 engine.
Completely inaccurate assessment: ETOPS as an acronym stands for "Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards" and its criteria for certification is not related in any way whatsoever to whether or not an aircraft is equipped to operate over water.


ETOPs has nothing to do with 4-engined aircraft with the exception of the Concorde
wrong again. ETOPS officially has nothing to do with Concorde, just that those aircrafts' operators have chosen to fly them to most of the standards dictated by ETOPS on scheduled routes.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 10:12 am

Everyone seems to be in a bad mood today. Little more confrontational than usual  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Relax everyone. Its a forum, its fun. We should all love each other, or some such shit.

N
 
MSYtristar
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 1:26 pm

Tom, CO and Delta will both operate out of only 4 gates on D? How are they going to swing that? I think DL has about 16 flights and CO has 15 I believe...31 flights for 4 gates seems like a lot for most airlines (except Southwest), especially since DL has all the gates occupied in the morning. Very interesting!
 
brons2
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RE: Etops Regs Could Be Expanded To 3- & 4-eng

Thu Dec 19, 2002 1:39 pm

Please stop the off-topic posts about twins versus quads. It's tired and it's been hashed on this board many times. I do wish the mods would delete it.

BOT: (back on topic)

It's interesting to see that Delta flies so many 767's into MSY! Who is the largest carrier by terms of pax at MSY? I would guess it's Delta or Southwest. Anyone?
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 1:43 pm

are there any photo spots @ MSY? Looks like I will be there beginning of Feb.

Royal
 
MSYtristar
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 1:54 pm

Southwest has the lead in terms of total number of passengers thanks to their 60 flights a day...Delta and Continental always fight for the second spot..I think Delta is number 2 currently.

All the 767's I've ever flown on into/out of MSY have been packed to the gills, except for the 767-400 which was a sub for a 762...not totally full.



 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Thu Dec 19, 2002 11:37 pm

are there any photo spots @ MSY? Looks like I will be there beginning of Feb.

Yes, by the Airline Adult Book store which is only a few dozen yards away from the threshhold of Rwy19, great spot.


Delta and Continental always fight for the second spot..I think Delta is number 2 currently.

Delta has, and has maintained, a significant lead over Continental for years.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Tom in NO
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Fri Dec 20, 2002 2:50 am

Some more comments from an MSY employee:

1) DL has four gates now on the south side of D with the addition of a new jetway at gate D-2. CO will have the three gates on the C side of D.

2) Southwest has been #1 for some time now in terms of both pax and movements. DL is #2, CO #3, although with the acquistion of TW, AA has moved up quite a bit.

3) Photo spots:
a) the above-mentioned photo spot is OK, but is better later in the day. I work on the airfield, so I'm more flexible in that area.
b) the parking garage is good for US and DL. A seven-floor garage addition is under construction, it should have some decent views.
c) parking lot neat the perishables/customs building on the south side of the airport is good, but the police will likely find you there.

4) Keep the twins/quads debate somewhere else, please. We haven't seen an Airbus larger than a 320 in a couple of years, so anything new is welcome down here.

Tom in NO (at MSY)
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
MSYtristar
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Fri Dec 20, 2002 8:23 am

One more question....

If Delta added a new jetway on D2, wouldn't that give them 3 total? I did see on the flymsy site that they have 2, 4, 6, and 8...do all 4 gates have jetways?
 
gkirk
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:23 am

Why do at American Airport, Airlines have assigned gates?
In the UK and Europe, airlines will go to any gate at the terminal they op to, thats free!  Big thumbs up
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:13 am

Why do at American Airport, Airlines have assigned gates?
In the UK and Europe, airlines will go to any gate at the terminal they op to, thats free!


Because the majority of non-fortress hub USA airports are geared primarily toward domestic flights by a small number of different scheduled carriers; who offer multiple frequencies to the same small number of destinations.

The fortress hubs often share similar characteristics, but typically include a designated concourse/terminal with multiple-use capability, usually the international arrival facilities. Prime examples: ATL, ORD, SFO, LAX, etc.

The euro-superhubs and Asian gateways often handle scores of different foreign airlines, many of whom have but a single daily/weekly frequency. They're more designed to cater toward such a market.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Tom in NO
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RE: More Airbus Flights For New Orleans!

Sat Dec 21, 2002 4:44 am

Steven:

DL has single jetways at D2 and D4, and two jetways at D6, for a total of 4.  Smile

Tom in NO (at MSY)
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina

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