keesje
Posts: 8867
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 9:40 am

Boeings new aircraft will be "look like the current 767 and 777, seating 250 passengers, with a range of about 7,500 miles, but with more advanced engines "..

well 7500 miles is a bit far I think but ..

Likely Airbus will not be happy to see all A300/310 aircraft being replaced by the new Boeing Aircraft ...

IMO they have an advantage over Boeing in having already the right body, the 330/340 hull, and modern cockpit/avionics that can be copied from 345/6 ..

However the successful 330-200 seems not suited for shorter range high density services now dominated by B757, A300, A310, B762.

What will Airbus do ?

My guess is a new wing optimized for short/medium haul 330-100 and a launch date 2 yrs before the new Boeing (that is 2006 ?).

This will likely become an A vs B race against the clock ... there's too much at stake here, also for Airbus (much, much bigger market then A380 ..)
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 9:47 am

Please post a link for your source on this new 787. I don't remember hearing anything about this.
Puhdiddle
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 9:53 am

Yeah, please want send me a link of the news about B787, OK? I want to please send me a link with the picture of the new aircraft of B787 for me, please? Well, thanks for the cooperation with me!  Smile
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 10:10 am

Jesus, you two. Where have you been? Boeing are contemplating a 767 replacement to the specs described above. It'll be the 787, most likely.

 Insane
Your bone's got a little machine
 
yyzcabincrew
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 3:10 pm

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 10:10 am

The new BOEING Aircraft does NOT have a name yet.....Boeing is calling it "MIDDLE OF THE MARKET" . http://www.boeing.com/news/breakingnews/2002/021220g.html
 
Guest

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 10:13 am

Are you referring to B777-250ERX?
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 10:22 am

No........
Your bone's got a little machine
 
hmmmm...
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:32 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 10:34 am

I made the same mistake with Scotty. I understand that he's deaf. That explains is unique style.

777236er, please refrain from using JESUS as a curse. That is very offensive.

So let's have that link.
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 10:40 am

What link?! Project Yellowstone has been on the cards for a long time, and there have been more and more talk of a super-efficient 767 replacement in the works coming out of Chicago.

777236er, please refrain from using JESUS as a curse. That is very offensive.

 Insane
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Bizjets
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:11 pm

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:05 am


ScottysAir:

umm, what sorta jibberish or langauge is that you wrote in? I think you stated you wanted the 787 link 3 or 4 times in a single sentence. Weird



ScottysAir speaks ASL, American Sign Language. Its not jibberish either. Have a little respect.
 
sv11
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 1999 6:26 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:10 am

If you listen to the video at the above link, Boeing is focusing on a conventional 250 seat aircraft with 777's range and 20 % better seat-mile costs. The estimate of this market is 2000-3000 airplanes. Most likely a twin with launch in 2004. Hope this plane can carry two LD-3 containers side by size. They are also looking at 737-900X with 200 passenger capacity.
I think eventually you will see 737 family covering 100-200 seats, this new plane 200-300 seats and 777 300-400 seats with 747,757 and 777 retired.

sv11
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:20 am

777236er, please refrain from using JESUS as a curse. That is very offensive.

Only if you want it to be.

Dear moderators: No.
 
Noise
Posts: 2017
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:35 am

haven't you guys heard? Boeing is scrapping the Sonic Cruiser and is going with this a/c.
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:51 am

Come on, All of you guys!!! I am not a deaf for me either and I am hard of the hearing for me. OK? Please gimme me a break for the thread. I want to listen explain to know exactly want something news. Well, talk ya later!!
 
FlyboyOz
Posts: 1743
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2000 10:05 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 12:50 pm

ScottysAir..don't worry about other people (some people don't know that you're hard of hearing)...I'm hearing impairment and I also have a problem with the english grammar so therefore it's hard for everyone to understand and read my writing. I'm afraid that i don't want to offend you...Please don't repeat so many verbs and keep the sentence SHORT!!

Guys..please try to understand and respect our hearing-impaired languages. I cannot hear the words from other people so that is why it doesn't help me to improve my language skill!! For example, when hearing people talk to me and I have no idea what they are talking about and lipreading doesn't helpful! I've been trying soooo hard to remember all the gammar rules but it's impossible.

Thank you
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
sleekjet
Posts: 2006
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2001 1:35 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 12:58 pm

Hats off to Scotty and Flyboy. You guys inspire us all. And, hats off to those who dare to express offense when others misuse the name of Jesus. I'm right there with you.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
Bizjets
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:11 pm

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 12:59 pm

I apologize, I thought you had said in a previous post you spoke ASL. In either case, neither of it is jibberish. All it takes is a little bit of effort on our part, and a little less criticism.
 
Sinlock
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:55 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 1:22 pm

"Likely Airbus will not be happy to see all A300/310 aircraft being replaced by the new Boeing Aircraft ..."
"IMO they have an advantage over Boeing in having already the right body, the 330/340 hull, and modern cockpit/avionics that can be copied from 345/6 .."
"However the successful 330-200 seems not suited for shorter range high density services now dominated by B757, A300, A310, B762."
"What will Airbus do ?"
"My guess is a new wing optimized for short/medium haul 330-100 and a launch date 2 yrs before the new Boeing (that is 2006 ?). "
"This will likely become an A vs B race against the clock ... there's too much at stake here, also for Airbus (much, much bigger market then A380 ..) "


I would think that Beancounters at the EU banks and Airbus would have a hard time finding the cash, that would be needed to pull off a A-331. The A-380 is going to cost around $8 billion most of it is credit.
Airbus dosen't have much cash comeing in. The "EasyJet" order will hurt whatever profit the 32X line makes, and who knows when the A-380 line will bring in a profit (2010)?
So even if Airbus were going to launch a new aircraft, i doubt it would be in a 2006 time line. More like 2010 IF ever.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 4:12 pm

I would think that Beancounters at the EU banks and Airbus would have a hard time finding the cash, that would be needed to pull off a A-331. The A-380 is going to cost around $8 billion most of it is credit.

Airbus will just get more interest-free 'loans' without a refund period in the contract from the EU.
And please don't turn this into another A-B war, as that's a fact of life. Airbus always gets extremely friendly government loans whenever they need money.
I wish I were flying
 
Shamrock_747
Posts: 1499
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:25 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 6:10 pm

Sooner or later Airbus will build a new aircraft aimed at replacing the A300/A310/767. I think the best solution would be to use the current A300/A310 design, but give it a new flight deck, avionics and engines (such as RR Trents).

Shamrock_747
 
keesje
Posts: 8867
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 8:02 pm

In my opinion Airbus won't have a problem getting the money for a new high capacity medium range 200/250 seater.

Their investment won't be as high as Boeings, they've the body-cockpit etc ...
Only a shorter, bigger and lighter wing will do.

Looking at the market potential for such an aircraft and the financial success of the A320 and A330 series, banks won't hesitate financing the $ 0.7- 1 billion (?) investment required .....

Boeing is a different story .. They need a lot more to invest ($3 billion ?) and I wonder if banks will come up with that, specially when Airbus has announced a similar lower risk project.

I wouldn't be surprised if somehow the US government "intervenes" for long term strategic reasons. (They did so in 1957/1965 buying 800 707/KC135's ..., these need to be replaced in the next 10 yrs ..)
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 8:30 pm

Airbus has stated repeatedly it would be 10 years before an aircraft in this size range is possible.

That being said, I think an A300/A310 with a new wing, engines, cockpit, and FBW would be very successful. I don't know what the investment required would be.

Certainly less than Boeing's, which would almost have to incorporate a new fuselage as well.

Heh I was thinking about an A300-600R with Trent 500s today, actually.


N

Those who don't think the US "intervenes" on a constant basis are crazy.
 
keesje
Posts: 8867
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 8:56 pm

Airbus has stated repeatedly it would be 10 years before an aircraft in this size range is possible.

Boeing was fully commited to the SC until yesterday... Company's like this will always honestly communicate one direction until the opposite is proved/decided.

As said before I think neither can/will ignore this market.

While preparing for this big battle they send out conflicting info to mislead or disencourage the other party's.

I think Sonic Cruiser can be seen as a decoy ... "787" is probably well on track and the announced "2008" and "2010" can be seen in this light ...
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
buckfifty
Posts: 1278
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Sun Dec 22, 2002 9:40 pm

That's a rather expensive decoy for Boeing in PR terms. Along with the multitude of 747 variants they've been putting out in the past 18 months, I'd say they're a bit confused at this juncture in time...
 
keesje
Posts: 8867
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Mon Dec 23, 2002 2:58 am

Surfing around the on a A330-100 google search indicates Airbus has been considering this for at least 3 yrs. Investment should be less then $1 bill and time to market 3/5 yrs ...

Airbus has been waiting for the right moment. The latest Boeing decision could spark a decision.

Boeing probably will be studying all options to prevent/delay such a Airbus decision...
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Mon Dec 23, 2002 3:41 am

Airbus had already announced a few months ago that they´ll counter any such move by Boeing with a matching product (big surprise there Wink/being sarcastic).
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Mon Dec 23, 2002 9:38 am

I fear that an A330-100 would be far too heavy.

I didn't mean 10 years for either manufacturer, I meant 10 years for Airbus.

N
 
hmmmm...
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:32 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:14 am

I don't think that Boeing was committed to the SC at any point. It was just an idea they were toying with. Both manufacturers maintain new design departments whose job it is to come up with concept planes, just like the auto manufacturers employ people full-time to create designs for concept cars. And very little of concept designs ever see the light of day.

Boeing went much further with the 2707 before they cancelled. They actually made a mock-up prototype, (I walked through it) but even that was just an illusion. It was just a full-scale model. No working parts. The furthest Boeing went with the SC was not even that. All they had were drawings and a small scale-model that Alan Mulally held in his hand when he talked to the press. That's it.

Boeing and Airbus may also have conceptual drawings of supersonic planes, even hypersonic space planes, designs that they can pull out of the drawer to show the media at will. And usually, the purpose is to play mind games with the rival. To keep them guessing. To keep them off balance. It's just showmanship. It's part of the business.

An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
keesje
Posts: 8867
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",

Mon Dec 23, 2002 6:29 pm

Pentagon Postpones 767 Tanker Lease Decision Until Next Year --

http://library.northernlight.com/FE20021220940000110.html?cb=0&dx=1006&sc=0#doc

It's a long shot but :

I think there is a slight possibility Boeing will try to push for a deal here. USAF could be the ideal launch customer for a new mid size aircraft/tanker.

It really put Boeing in the driver seat for the next 20 years when the USAF bought 800 (..) KC135/707's in the 1957-1965 period ....

I think Bush/US government are nationalistic orientated enough at this moment to take a "strategic" decision to order say 100 767 and 250 "KC787" 's in a second phase ....
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway