SegmentKing
Topic Author
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Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 5:27 am

N916FR was delivered on Thursday. (and I flew on it Sunday DEN-FLL, avoid the last row if possible on this bird!). No DirecTV.

N901FR, N903FR, N905FR have directv installed in them... they are on a rotation throughout the system, so there is no way to really determine if your flight will have it. Last I've heard, expect 2 more planes in the next month to have them installed.

4 cities will be announced in 2003. These will be pure Frontier JET cities. Rumors are saying Santa Ana, Vancouver, Pittsburgh, and a Florida city. Other rumors are pointing to Toronto, Detroit, and Milwaukee.

Mesa Air Group has cleaned up its act. The planes are now a lot more reliable than before... there are talks of possibly opening up new cities using JetExpress out of Denver on routes that will compete directly with United Express... again, rumors are pointing at aiming them in Reno, El Paso, Vail, Gunnison, Rapid City....

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
717-200
Posts: 564
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 6:22 am

In the past week the local NBC affiliate ran a report that RDU was on the
short list for new service by F9.
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
 
Dazed767
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 6:33 am

Last bird I saw in the DirecTV hangar was the sea lion tail (couldn't see the reg#). Every 2 or so weeks I see one in there.
 
Guest

RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 7:45 am

So from the looks of it, no PHL in 2003.
 
Noise
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 7:47 am

Toronto, eh? So their finally going to enter Canada. Good!
 
BA
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 7:53 am

Lowfareair,

I wouldn't say that. Frontier has been looking at PHL closely.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
acvitale
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 8:06 am

I would not hold my breath on Mesa and Frontier expanding service.
 
SegmentKing
Topic Author
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 8:43 am

well in the past 2 months, Mesa has brought in more reliable planes into the JetExpress network... so maybe they have cleaned up their act...
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
geotrash
Posts: 293
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 10:11 am

Very glad to see Pittsburgh on the rumor list. USAirways has been the only nonstop carrier on this route for years. This year I had hoped to go to PIT for the holidays, but US wanted $1500 for a R/T with 21 days advanced notice for the dates I needed to fly. Perhaps Frontier will bring sanity to the historically high fares on this route.

-Geo
 
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lindy field
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 10:54 am

Is there any news on when Frontier will start flying its A319s to SAN?
 
nicksair
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 11:16 am

Lindy The Newest A319 N916FR Came Into SAN Today Around 1430PST.
Regards,
Nick
KSAN/KLAX/KPHL
Nicholas William Reed KSAN/KLAX/KSFO
 
Greg
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 11:35 am

Santa Ana????
Haven't heard that in a while. I think it's called Orange County now...
 
ouboy79
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 12:15 pm

This year I had hoped to go to PIT for the holidays, but US wanted $1500 for a R/T with 21 days advanced notice for the dates I needed to fly. Perhaps Frontier will bring sanity to the historically high fares on this route.

Hmm...let me guess, you called December 1st for travel on the 22nd? It is called yeild management. The lowest fare on that route charged by US Airways is $250. This is a 14 day advanced purchase, 3 day min stay required. Let me suggest something when making an airline reservation for christmas - do it more than 2-3 weeks before! There are plenty of people who paid far less than that $1500 for this trip...but they also planned their trips in advance. If you want to save money...book early - or else you will pay more, regardless of who you fly.
 
geotrash
Posts: 293
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 1:55 pm

Oh really, Ouboy? Wow!! Thanks alot!! I never realized it was that simple. To think, I could have saved some money if I had only known what my schedule would be! How can I ever thank you for bestowing upon me such staggering and serendipitous insight to the nirvana that buying a ticket in advance could be?

Yield management. I never even considered that that could be the cause. I feel like a great light has been illuminated. What makes it even more phantasmagorical is that I'm sure that Frontier will never be able to match such low fares on this route. Surely, Frontier is destined for abyssmal failure as an enterprise.

Perhaps you could sell yourself as a consultant to Frontier. What, with your vast knowledge of fare data and yield ratios. You'd be a star!

Thanks for the help,
-Geo
 
MAH4546
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 2:07 pm

4 cities will be announced in 2003. These will be pure Frontier JET cities. Rumors are saying Santa Ana, Vancouver, Pittsburgh, and a Florida city. Other rumors are pointing to Toronto, Detroit, and Milwaukee.

Hmmm...they are already at RSW, TPA, MCO, and FLL. That leaves just JAX, PBI, and MIA. JAX, nor PBI, have any west coast service, so they could definitley offering something there. MIA offers the best yields in Florida, and MIA-DEN is a pretty dense corridor, especialy with ski traffic. Plus, they won't need to build much of a local customer base, as they already have with thier popular FLL service. MIA would be awesome, though I have a hunch it would be PBI.
a.
 
ouboy79
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 2:08 pm

Yawn. Nice nick by the way - how appropriate.  Smile

I've done the thing of not knowing my schedule a month or more ahead of time - so I work around and find days where the fares aren't overly expensive simply because there aren't any seats left. It happens...you wait til the last minute - you will be begging for a jar of vaseline. If it bothers you that much, then go to an alternate airport - CAK, CLE, etc...they have low fare carriers flying out of there as well. However, you are also flying out of DEN - one of the most expensive airports to operate out of. If you want to complain - complain to the local airport for not working with Southwest in getting them in there.
 
geotrash
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:25 am

RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 2:21 pm

No need to go name calling. Big grin Just having a little fun with you. I've made that trip 6 times this year with anywhere from 5 to 23 days' notice, and never paid less than $409 R/T...no Saturday night stays, of course. Yes, Denver is expensive, there's no question about it. I just happen to think it's a good thing that Frontier is continuing to grow. In over 250,000 miles in the last 2 years out of Denver, with perhaps 60,000 of that on Frontier, they are always at least 15-20% lower than any other carrier on the same route. They're especially good for short notice fares.

Didn't mean to come off complaining. I merely wanted to highlight that Frontier's entry into the DEN-PIT market is a good thing.

-Geo
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 2:32 pm

Greg,

Actually its John Wayne Airport these days, not Orange County.

http://www.ocair.com/
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
SegmentKing
Topic Author
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Dec 24, 2002 3:42 pm

the seats on N916FR in the BACK stand nearly straight up... it was very VERY uncomfortable back there, even though i've sat in row 22 a few times on the A319...

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
BA
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Wed Dec 25, 2002 5:18 am

PBI wouldn't surprise me and I have a feeling the Florida city will be PBI.

United was planning on starting 2 daily DEN-PBI last year, but that all changed. Along with DEN-RDU.........

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Dazed767
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Mon Jan 06, 2003 11:05 am

N904FR (swan tail) was in the hanger getting PTV's installed yesterday.

Justin
 
usairways85
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Mon Jan 06, 2003 11:07 am

I'm assuming the rumor that Frontier might start DEN-PHL has been put on the back burner along with Alaska's rumor that they might start SEA-PHL
 
fsuwxman
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:10 pm

I think out of the list of Florida cities that could get F9 service, I think the more likely might be JAX... They about have the rest of the state covered. In JAX they could tap into South Georgia/ North Florida population. Instead of these people driving north to ATL or south to TPA/MCO... I have found JAX very convenient, especially living in Tallahassee for a while. It also seems as though they have the least non- stops out west (before I get bashed for saying this, I did not look up anything, I made this conjecture on what I know before hand). American flies out to DFW and STL, Delta flies out to DFW and ATL, United goes to IAD and ORD, and Northwest flies to MSP I think. A flight or two to DEN would be nice, in my opinion.
ASOS... Another Shi#y Observation Station
 
SegmentKing
Topic Author
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Mon Jan 06, 2003 2:04 pm

well Jetblue has been poking around and doing some 'due diligence' on the airline.... not sure if anything will ever come of it.

Also,

new problem at Frontier Airlines.

The A318 will not be able to drive under the walkway... the tail is a few inches taller than allowed to pass through *doh*

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
gigneil
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Mon Jan 06, 2003 2:35 pm

The 737 and A319 can pass under, but the A318 won't be able to?

N
 
gigneil
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Mon Jan 06, 2003 2:36 pm

Also, JetBlue may be investigating F9, but that would bring its aircraft type count to 3, and F9 uses CFM engines.

I don't know if the difference between the A318, A319, and A320 is enough to deter JB, but it would be very different than their current strategy.

N
 
User avatar
mariner
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Mon Jan 06, 2003 4:25 pm

The tail on the A318 is about 20 inches higher than the A319 (similar height to the 737NG).

But how many Frontier aircraft actually do go under the walkway? And why is it a problem, when they can just go around?

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
BA
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Mon Jan 06, 2003 4:50 pm

But how many Frontier aircraft actually do go under the walkway?

MANY, I can tell you that. Frontier is about the only airline that goes under the walkway.

And why is it a problem, when they can just go around?

You burn up extra fuel, takes longer, and you increase congestion.

The tarmac between Concourse A and B can get quite congested at times.

Then again, Frontier is only going to have 6 A318s, so there wouldn't be many flights that would need to go around.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:50 am

BA:

Thanks for the answers.

Howsumever, I'm only concerned with the stated "problem" part.

If Frontier is the only airline to go under the walkway, then it still doesn't seem like a huge problem to me. I fly with Frontier three or four times a year, through Denver, and I've never been under the walkway.

But SegmentKing said it is more than "allowed" to pass under the walkway. Could it actually do it (at 41.5 feet) if "allowed"?

As to the 318's, yes, Frontier only has 6 confirmed, but I believe there are options for a few more. And I'd guess they could get one sweet price from Airbus.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
jmc1975
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:15 am

About 5 years ago, an America West 757 (N902AW) passed underneath the walkway and came out the other end with about a foot of its verticle stabilizer torn off.
.......
 
BA
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:22 am

Mariner,

But SegmentKing said it is more than "allowed" to pass under the walkway. Could it actually do it (at 41.5 feet) if "allowed"?

I don't think so. But I'd have to double check.

Jmc1975,

Strange, why would an America West plane pass underneath the walkway?

America West uses Concourse C......

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:56 am

BA,

For some reason the America West 757 was being directed to A44. Incident occurred on 3/1/97. Who operated at A44 in 1997? Here is a summary of what happened.
http://www.canard.com/ntsb/FTW/97A112.htm
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
BA
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:22 am

FATFlyer,

From what I can tell, America West has always used Concourse C.

But don't take my word for it. I forget these things. I didn't really follow things in DEN that well in 1997, so who knows. Maybe they did use A44.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
N80NA
Posts: 180
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:42 am

BA,

HP used gates 40 and 42 on the A concourse back then

and some tech specs :

tail heights per boeing and airbus web-sites :

A318 41 ft 2 inches
A319 38 ft 7 inches

73G 41 ft 2 inches

N80NA
 
atcboy73
Posts: 1084
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:31 am

A318 vs bridge, problem solved-----just park them on the north side of the concourse  Smile
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:44 am

DEN to DTW?

They were talking about that when I was out in DEN in 1996 and it still hasn't happened.

How strong is this route?

United, Northwest and Spirit already fly it.
 
jmc1975
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RE: Frontier Airlines Update

Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:51 am

BA,
I personally have flown HP into A42. They moved to concouse C in late-1999 or early-2000.
.......