flyyul
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News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Wed Dec 25, 2002 2:40 pm

This posted from Cu171 (aviationman on airliners.net).. on the Montreal board.

"Sata will be operating once a week on Monday's out of YUL. They were hoping for a slot on Thursday's. The only slots available out of YUL this coming summer are Monday's and Tuesday's at 21:45. Sata picked Monday's. This is the info I got about Sata.

EuroAtlantic project to fly to Canada is at a preliminary level. They are interested in the Canadian market. Or Montreal, or Toronto. If the project materialize, EuroAtlantic will have no choice but to fly to YUL due to the YYZ saturation. There are no slots available out of YYZ for the 2003 summer.This info came from EuroAtlantic themself.

A few weeks ago I informed our caterer about EuroAtlantic. They contacted the Portuguese airline and the above is the info they got from EuroAtlantic. Thought it was good to share with you guys. YYZ is getting full, packed....no room available!



Merry Xmas,

Marcel"

Merry Christmas to all,

Mark


 
slawko
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Thu Dec 26, 2002 12:11 am

Last time I checked, the only airport in Canada with a slot reservation system was YYZ....hmmmmm.... interesting....
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
flyyul
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Thu Dec 26, 2002 12:37 am

Merry X-Mas Slawko!! All the best to you!

You might find this extremely funny, but Montreal only has 1/4 of the no of gates YYZ does.. especially on peak hours, its hard to find a gate at YUL, so temporarily, Im not surprised with SATA not finding a slot on thursday, the busiest international day in Montreal.. But if you have a flight departing mid-day... there are many a gate open for airlines.

Mark
 
slawko
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Thu Dec 26, 2002 1:04 am

Merry Christmas to you too Mark...


Thanks for the info...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
Noise
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Thu Dec 26, 2002 1:27 am

Things at Dorval's International sector will only get worse in the coming months, as charters begin the process of moving their flights to Dorval. Sata is lucky, and with TS moving the YMX operations to YUL in a little more than a year at the most, it makes me wonder how much room is available until things get saturated like YYZ.

Merry Christmas to all!
 
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yyz717
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 5:23 am

YYZ saturation. There are no slots available out of YYZ for the 2003 summer.This info came from EuroAtlantic themself.

YYZ is not saturated. With 5 runways operating next summer (vs 4 in summer 2002) & sufficient gates, there are no barriers to any airline operating to YYZ next summer if they are flexible on slot time.

I'm not sure that EuroAtlantic (errrr....who?) should be considered a reliable source on YYZ slot availability.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 5:47 am

I think congestion will hit at T3..... You have something like 48 carriers operating with some 20-25 gates... I hope that T-New or whatever it is called, will cater to some of the NON-Air Canada operators who need more space, and flexible slots..

Mark

 
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yyz717
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 6:11 am

Mark, the GTAA is extremely focused on maximizing passenger count at YYZ. They have been juggling airlines betw the terminals to ensure efficiency. The GTAA will not tolerate losing business. The mid-field terminal can be used for overflow for T3 (as it is for T1 for instance).

Rest assured that EuroAtlantic's YYZ plans (if any) will never be thwarted by slot and/or gate unavailability.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 6:32 am

Are you the official spokesman for the GTAA?

"Rest assured that EuroAtlantic's YYZ plans (if any) will never be thwarted by slot and/or gate unavailability."

-Really?

 
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yyz717
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 6:45 am

Are you the official spokesman for the GTAA?

No, although I'd rather be the spokesman for the GTAA than the ADM. YYZ is far more successful than YUL.

Just trying to temper the glee with which you "announced" that since YYZ was saturated, YUL would likely get Euro Atlantic.

YYZ has plenty of room to grow & grow & grow, much to your chagrin & frustration.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 7:19 am

I can argue that Montreal has made it unbelievably easy for you...

SSV is in Montreal... shows your little knowledge of outside-Toronto matters.

What recent pullback by AC? YUL-ATL? YUL-FRA double daily? YUL-LAX double daily? What are you talking about?

Success is temporary, dont get cocky... you never know what just might come up the 401..

Mark
 
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yyz717
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 7:25 am

What recent pullback by AC? YUL-ATL? YUL-FRA double daily? YUL-LAX double daily? What are you talking about?

How about YUL-SFO/DEN? Two large US cities........

Success is temporary

Perhaps in YUL. Success has been pretty permanent in YYZ. 28M is serious business Mark.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Noise
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 7:28 am

Don't want to get involved in anything but.......Neil, remember, YUL-SFO suspension is only for a month, it's no biggie!
 
flyyul
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 7:29 am

YUL-SFO is suspended 3 weeks, a fraction of YYZ-AMS, YYZ-DUB, YYZ-ZRH etc.

YUL-DEN will be back..

28 million before sept 11, I want to see your 2001 numbers before you start parading. So in essence, 28 mil minus 10%... Like you've said Neil, after 09/11 is a different story!

Mark
 
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yyz717
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 8:03 am

28 million before sept 11, I want to see your 2001 numbers before you start parading. So in essence, 28 mil minus 10%...

Okay, whatever. 28M less 10% is still 3x that of YUL. It's all relative.

YUL will fall behind fast rising YYC this decade.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 8:10 am

Oh Yeah the YYC that YUL has outmatched in the last 5 years... I forgot....

 
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yyz717
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 8:15 am

YYC is close to YUL in terms of passengers handled, despite only 1/6 the catchment population.

YUL has dropped from 1st to 2nd to 3rd place in terms of busiest Canadian airports. Dropping to 4th later this decade is simply a continuation of that long trend.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 8:30 am

Neil, everything seems so simple in your mind...... In 5 years, your gonna be the one looking like a fool.... I cant wait.. And im more than confident because people are taking the necessary steps the correct this "simply a continuation of that long trend".. the results have already multiplied themselves..

And this is why YUL has blown right past YYC in the last 5 years... Makes you sad eh? To see that traffic at YMQ has gone from 8.8 mil to 11 mil before 09/11.

ANd how nice that YYc is investing $300 mil in the airport vis a vis the $1.3 billion we are pouring in.. oh yeah the $1.3 billion that is coming out of your pocket Big grin and the same $1.3 bil that will make YUL a white elephant. Under your logic in this "Happy English Terminal (HET) "  Big thumbs up Swiss, Egyptair, and Royal Air Maroc will all move to Toronto....... All Montreal will be left with is flight on :30 to Toronto with B747-400's..... You better stick to finance  Big grin

Anyway back to the topic on hand..

Mark

 
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yyz717
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 8:57 am

To see that traffic at YMQ has gone from 8.8 mil to 11 mil before 09/11.

Yes, it's easy to boost your traffic numbers when you CLOSE the other city airport.

Egyptair, and Royal Air Maroc will all move to Toronto.......

No, these marginal, low yeilding ethnic routes will stay at YUL. YYZ will focus on building its business traffic with its hourly flights to YOW, YYC, YVR, LGA, ORD, its 9x daily LHR flights, etc. etc.


YYc is investing $300 mil in the airport vis a vis the $1.3 billion we are pouring in..

YYC builds airport expansion according to demand. Montreal tends to build white elephants.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Aviationman
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 9:12 am

"No, these marginal, low yeilding ethnic routes will all stay at YUL"

Funny, few days ago you were saying something different.

Remember the following statement?

"While YUL might get YWG nonstop and be able to bypass YYZ, similarly YYZ will get Egyptair, RAM, Swiss, not to mention MORE connecting traffic from YOW & YUL. When all airlines will be in "ONE BIG HAPPY ENGLISH SPEAKING TERMNAL" (YYZ717/Neil)
 
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yyz717
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 9:24 am

You're misquoting me Aviationman. And you know it. Grow up. And stop fanning racism; it's immature.

Moreover, that discussion dealt with airlines supplementing YUL service with YYZ service. This discussion deals with replacing YUL with YYZ service.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Noise
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 10:52 am


Yes, it's easy to boost your traffic numbers when you CLOSE the other city airport.

Neil, I think Mark is referring to the growth of YQM from 1997 to 2001, not the growth of YUL by closing an airport.
 
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yyz717
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 11:42 am

Neil, I think Mark is referring to the growth of YQM from 1997 to 2001, not the growth of YUL by closing an airport.

Most of the recent YUL growth has been the consolidation of traffic from YMX, hence it's not real growth.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
yow
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Fri Dec 27, 2002 11:41 pm

"Neil, I think Mark is referring to the growth of YQM from 1997 to 2001, not the growth of YUL by closing an airport. "

Lol YQM...now there is one airport that truly has doubled it's passenger counter over the last 5 years.

 
Noise
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Sat Dec 28, 2002 2:26 am

Most of the recent YUL growth has been the consolidation of traffic from YMX, hence it's not real growth.

Evidently, you don't now much about what's going on at Montreal's airport, for from 1997-2001, there were no transfer of flights to any of Montreal's airports, therefore NO growth was due to the consolidating of traffic from YMX, hence all growth was real growth.

Sorry guys, but I meant YMQ, not YQM, my bad.
 
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yyz717
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Sat Dec 28, 2002 2:57 am

The transfer of YMX flights to YUL did artificially boost YUL passenger numbers, but the # of passengers to Montreal did not increase....they just shifted airports.

YQM has actually been very aggressive in courting airlines and growing their pax numbers....their new terminal will boost this further.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:35 am

"The transfer of YMX flights to YUL did artificially boost YUL passenger numbers, but the # of passengers to Montreal did not increase....they just shifted airports."

Your wrong, the total number at YMQ standed at 8.8 mil in 1998. This number has risen to 11 million in 2001.... By shifting airports, you dont increase numbers magically..

Mark

 
Noise
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Sat Dec 28, 2002 7:44 am

Neil you are wrong. From 1997-2001 there was no artificial gorwth at any airport because none of them was closed and there wasn't a transfer. Mark is totally right. The #s in 1998 for YMQ was 8.8 million, in 2001 it was 11 million.
 
Marco
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Sat Dec 28, 2002 8:09 am

Noise,

Didn't the transfer of all int'l flights from YMX to YUL take place in September 1997? I distinctly remember flying KLM out of YMX a few days before the transfer. Just wondering...
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
Noise
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RE: News Regarding Sata And EuroAtlantic To Canada

Sat Dec 28, 2002 9:47 am

Yes, it took place in 1997. OK, I see what your getting at. Yeah, growth at YUL that year was in large part due to the transfer. But from 1998 to now, all growth has been real growth, as you know. This is the point I am trying to make to Neil! Also, the number for YMQ increased not because of the transfer of flights, but because of natural growth. Actually, saying the YMQ is growing artificially doesn't even make sense!