CX747
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US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:38 am

How does U.S. Airways operate their 767-200ERs and A330-300s? Are certain routes operated by only one model, or do the two share routes?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:46 am

I don't think there's too much route sharing, cause US doesn't have multiple frequencies on many of their transatlantic flights.

I'd venture a guess to say they might share at least one from PHL, but I know they don't from PIT or CLT.

N
 
haveric
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Sun Dec 29, 2002 10:33 am

They share routes from PHL-LGW in the summer (when there are two frequencies). I think they also share on PHL-SJU as well as between the US hubs.
 
usairways85
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Sun Dec 29, 2002 10:48 am

Yeah they share on the PHL-LGW route in the summer and PHL-SJU, maybe the PHL-CLT route thats a 767 might be an A330 sometimes. As for that they really dont share routes, they can replace each other though. Like if an A330 needs maintance and there's no other A330 to replace it for that time a 767 can step in without too many problems.
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Sun Dec 29, 2002 1:03 pm

Sorry... I was being specific on the transatlantic.

They also fly the 767 down to FLL and MIA and so on, and I know the A330 occasionally visits MIA as well.

N
 
usairways85
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Sun Dec 29, 2002 2:06 pm

If i am not mistaken US has never used the 767 to fll, and if they have its only been for a short time. MIA saw the A330 for a short time when the 330 first entered service but now that has been downgraded and is only a 767 on occasion. MCO sees 1 or 2 767's a day at certain times but i am pretty sure a 330 was never used on a flt to MCO. A 767 and 330 have been used between PHL-CLT, but it varies depending on the season which one it is. A 330 and 767 are both used on the PHL-SJU route and a 767 is used on the CLT-SJU route, with the 330 flying that route depending on the season i believe. LAX-CLT also typically has 1 767. Most of the 767's and 330's operate through PHL each day. About 5 or 6 330's and probably 7 767's a day. Look for some of these 767 routes to be downgraded to 321's probably if US follows through with its new Ireland service from PHL in the summer.
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:05 pm

I believe the A330's are flying the following routes:

Philadelphia-London/Gatwick
Philadelphia-Paris (CDG)
Philadelphia-Frankfurt
Philadelphia-Rome
Philadelphia-Manchester
Philadelphia-San Juan, PR

Charlotte-Frankfurt

Pittsburgh-London/Gatwick

The 767-200ER's operate the Philadelphia to Amsterdam, Munich, and Madrid flights, as well as the Charlotte to London and Pittsburgh to Frankfurt flights, as far as intercontinental longhauls go. There will be 767's operating the new Philadelphia-Dublin and Philadelphia-Shannon flights, which will operate on a seasonal basis from June 2003.

There are 9 A330's and 12 767-200ER's in the US Airways fleet.

ContinentalEWR

 
godbless
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:32 pm

PHL-FRA and PIT-FRA are both on A333 and the CLT-FRA flight is on the 762 and not an A333 while PIT-FRA is an 762...

I have flown FRA-PIT and PHL-FRA and both were on the Airbus.

Max
 
John
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Mon Dec 30, 2002 1:16 am

Correction on the 767 fleet, there are only 11 now. One aircraft was written off, and subsequently broken up, I believe last year, due to an uncontained engine failure and fire, during a run up, while undergoing a routine maintenance check at the hangar. Considerable damage to the fuselage. Thank god this didn't happen out over the Atlantic, because the end result would have most certainly been catastrophic.
 
USAFHummer
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Mon Dec 30, 2002 4:57 am

The largest US aircraft FLL sees is the 757-200, it has never seen a 767 or A330...the A330 will run extremely rare repositioning flights between PHL, PIT and CLT, but this is extremely rare...maybe once a year or so...

Greg
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762er
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:09 am

Godbless: Slight correction: PIT-FRA is an A330 roundtrip, not just on the return leg. Also just a comment, PIT-LGW changes to A330 in the summer months and PIT-CDG comes back in the summer with 762.
 
flashmeister
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:20 am

Is US really planning on running PHL-SNN and PHL-DUB as separate routes? Or do you mean that they'll do PHL-SNN-DUB and/or PHL-DUB-SNN like other US majors (for instance, Delta ATL-SNN-DUB/ATL-DUB-SNN)?
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Mon Dec 30, 2002 4:19 pm

All flights to Dublin have to stop in Shannon, also.

N
 
usairways85
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:31 am

However, it does sound like the Ireland flts will be 2 separate flts, 1 to Dublin and 1 to Shannon. However i am not sure, no one has really confirmed it.

Anyone see how Aer Lingus is combating this proposed route by US, stating that Aer Lingus only has limited access to US airports, only LAX, NYC, BOS, and i think 1 other city, and this will give US an unfair edge. I guess this means Aer Lingus would like to start more routes to the US, but can't. Also if they only have access to 4 cities, then how do they fly to BWI, because i know BWI is not 1 of the 4 cities.
 
USAFHummer
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 5:38 am

I should add that 767's are flown between PHL, PIT, and CLT on a daily basis...

Greg
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ScooterTrash
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 5:57 am

A note about the future:

Look for the A330s to disappear after U emerges from BK. U is not at all impressed with the product support from airbus and has found (not suprisingly) that a small wide-body fleet offers rather poor economies of scale.

The plan? According to some buddies I have in CLT Heavy maintenance, U is looking at 13 767-300ERs Asiana (I think) has parked in the desert. They have the same engines as the 767-200ERs operated by U currently and enjoy better parts commonality than do the A330s/320s/321s and 319s.

All this will happen, of course, if U ever gets out of BK!  Smile
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:21 am

What parts commonality will these 767s have with the A320s/321s and 319s at all?

My guess is the A330s have a 100% parts commonality (  Wink/being sarcastic ) and that there's a higher degree of it with their narrowbody fleet now than if they switch to 767s.

I've heard exactly the opposite - and that's to plan for US to have an all Airbus fleet after the bankruptcy, and that plan seems to be more plausible.

N
 
CVG777
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:26 am

USAirways also runs a 767 into Nassau daily from CLT, but is this only during the winter season?
 
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:54 am

A rumor in another thread has CO actively looking for B-767-300's for their international ops that can't support a 777, but need more than a 762.

Any word on where US stands on getting these birds from OZ? Does anyone know if CO has talked to OZ about these same aircraft?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
usairways85
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:58 am

i was not aware of US flying the 767 between NAS-CLT, however it is only during the winter months, come March it is downgraded to a 757
 
A388
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 8:09 am

When I went to the Caribbean back in 1999 I went via CDG. While taxiing to the gate I saw 8 B767-200ER's of US Airways parked there at the gates. This surprised me, but I didn't know much about US flights to CDG back than, so maybe it was/is normal. Does US Airways still have a strong presence in CDG?

Regards,

A388
 
usairways85
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 8:21 am

We are talking about Paris right??? Are you sure. US' European current operations are about as big as they ever were, and right now US only has 1 330 to CDG a day from PHL. A short time ago i believe they had 1 330 from PHL and 1 767 from CLT as well as 1 767 from PIT, but the PIT and CLT flts were part of the big flt cuts that took place in Nov. But i know for a fact that CDG never saw more than 3 flts from US. If you saw 8 US 767's that would mean about 75% of their 767 fleet would be in CDG at the time
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 10:35 am

EA CO AS-

Wouldn't they just allocate the 764 on these routes requiring more than a 762 but less than a 777?

N
 
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 10:44 am

They could, save for the fact that:

1. The 764 doesn't have the range the 763 does.

2. While the 762 may not have enough capacity, the 764 (if it had the legs to do the runs CO may have in mind) would have too much capacity, meaning money out the window.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 10:50 am

US Airways operated CLT-CDG and PIT-CDG. The CLT-CDG flight was axed in the immediate aftermath of 09/11/01 and the PIT-CDG returned, I believe, for seasonal service in the summer of 2002 but has been cut again.

ContinentalEWR
 
ScooterTrash
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 11:26 am

Gigneil:

Actually, the A330's have suprisingly little parts commonality with narrow body Airbus fleet... I was very suprised to find how little there really is. U suffers greatly from being the only A330 operator in the continental U.S., making it very hard to formulate multiple parts interchange agreements. When an airplane brakes stateside, it means getting a U team or sometimes an Airbus AOG team from Toulouse... very time consuming.

The 767-300ERs from the desert would have parts commonality with the 767-200ERs already on the property, especially since they share similar poerplant installations. They would also create better economies of scale: A big fleet of 767s is cheaper to operate (on a per aircraft basis) than a small fleet of A330's. It never pays to have a small fleet of disimilar wide-bodies.

The only thing U like about the A330s is the passenger acceptance of the aircraft and it's cargo capabilities. That does not make up for it's other faults, especially since u is doing away with it's first class product and going to a all "Envoy" arrangement up front (J class).
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 11:33 am

I think it'd be disasterous for US to get rid of the A330s... as mentioned, passengers love them, and it gives them an edge.

Air Canada operates A330s, and Northwest will be very, very soon as well. There's an Airbus team in Herndon, VA as well as parts.

Once/if things get better for US, I'd see them picking up more 330s, possibly some 332s instead of the 333s. This would certainly be a better PR move for them, and a more popular choice with customers, than the somewhat tired 767.

They may not take advantage of it now, but there'd be some significant cost savings in doing Mixed Fleet Flying as well.

N
 
captaink
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:27 pm

I recently started working US Airways flights.. And in my month training i did get the picture that US Airways loves their Airbus A330.. In fact everyone including their employees are very proud of all the airbus aircraft in their fleet. personally the A330 seems to be an excellent choice and does the job well. What about the A340? Do you think that is a possibilty? just for the info.. the only transatlatic flight that ran from PIT when i worked there in NOV..are the flights PIT - LGW and PIT - FRA and it ended there. PHL had the LGW, CDG FCO, FRA, MUC and i am not sure about CLT.
There is something special about planes....
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:32 pm

If US ever were to launch a Pacific route, I'd venture they'd go for the A340, but until then, the 333 has respectable and the 332 amazingly good range.

But as people have pointed out a few times, I may not know the goings on inside US management's head.  Big grin

Its fun to speculate.

N
 
ScooterTrash
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Wed Jan 01, 2003 5:10 am

The customer service folks do indeed like the A330s. I like them too, from passenger standpoint. PHL-FCO in F was sweeeeet!

However, just ask any U mech or fleet support employee about the airplane, and you will most likely get an eye roll followed by a stream of expletives. Remember... the VAST majority of passengers couldn't tell a A330 from a 767, inside or out. I would submit that nicely appointed 767s with PTV's and such would be very well received... cheaper and easier to operate. I'm not trying to start an Airbus v. Boeing argument (I hate those!). Most folks I know at U simply don't like the "whale."
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Wed Jan 01, 2003 5:19 am

Heh I find it entertaining that every conversation had about mechanics and Airbus planes, at every airline apparently, the mechanics hate the Airbus.

Yet major airlines the world-wide continue to order them in droves and claim to love them.

I find it an interesting dichotomy.

Northwest is going to have one metric sh*tload of them soon... we'll see how that goes. I can't wait.

N
 
Lear777
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Wed Jan 01, 2003 5:53 am

Starting in March USAirways will be flying 767s on PHL-Nassau/Cancun/Orlando.

This is what the US widebody schedule will look like in March '03 (outbound):

PHL A330 cities: SJU, LGW, CDG, FRA, FCO
PHL 767 cities: NAS, CUN, MUC, AMS, MAD, SNN (June), DUB (June), CLT, MCO, LGW (Is this flight seasonal?)

CLT 767 cities: LGW, FRA, PHL, LAX, SJU (FYI this flight will be UAL codeshared)

PIT A330 cities: FRA, LGW

Should be about it.

Brian
Go Astros!
 
usairways85
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:02 am

you forgot MAN as a A330 city for PHL

Nice to hear the 767 will be flying to Cancun and Nassau from PHL
 
donder10
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:13 am

PIT-CDG-PIT is done by a 762(I guess summer only)
 
Lindy
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:16 am

Hi All,

This is current list of 11 B767s in posesion of US:

23897 173 B767-201(ER) N645US
23898 175 B767-201(ER) N646US
23899 182 B767-201(ER) N647US
23900 190 B767-201(ER) N648US
23901 197 B767-201(ER) N649US
23902 217 B767-201(ER) N650US
24764 306 B767-2B7(ER) N651US
24765 308 B767-2B7(ER) N652US
24894 338 B767-2B7(ER) N653US
25257 383 B767-2B7(ER) N655US
26847 486 B767-2B7(ER) N656US

Aircraft N654US was leased (not owned by US) and was damaged on September 21 2000 due to engine fire. This aircraft was stored at PHL for over 6 months, then sold on online auction and removed.
(25225 375 B767-2B7(ER) N654US)
Here is the link for interested:
http://www.dovebid.com/Auctions/AuctionDetail.asp?auctionID=985

Dont know how much they sold it for.

Rafal
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:20 am

Who was Boeing customer code 01? Piedmont?

N
 
Lindy
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:32 am

Yes, Piedmont was aquired with its 767-201's

Rafal
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
Tom_EDDF
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RE: US Airways 767 & A330 Fleet Questions.

Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:39 am

I visited my friend working for US yesterday and asked her once again whether there are any plans to drop the A330, and she definitely said "no" or at least "more than unlikely". As she told me, they are making a lot of money with them on all transatlantic routes utilizing the bus, i.e. the UK and Germany routes. She also said that the total operating costs of the bus are surprisingly low, even lower than the 762s, with a much higher payload capability and high yields. The appeal of the 330s cabin is a contributing factor.

As others stated before, other north american scheduled or charter operators are actually flying A330s for quite a while, and Airbus will certainly be generous in terms of spare parts etc. to keep their widebody within US's fleet.

I recently had some flights with their A333s (FRA-PHL/PIT) and 762s (PHL-LAX) and have to say that the 76s interiors e.g. are in a lousy condition - they worlds apart in terms of passenger comfort.

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