SegmentKing
Topic Author
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:11 am

Hey gang....

was just talking with a ramp sup for US, and he was telling me that a runaway Southwest bag cart collided with a Delta 737-200A, causing a 4 foot gash in the fuselage...

that's one more 737-200 for the scrap yard
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:20 am

What's happening for today at FLL with SW cart did got hit by the near of B732 aircraft? Is that was anything of the damage or not? Can you somebody please tell me exactly want to known goes on for today. Please let us know! Thanks!!
 
SAAB340
Posts: 311
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:51 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:34 am

How much damage is needed to scrap an aircraft?
 
DC10Tony
Posts: 991
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 9:51 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:51 am

BULLSHIT!

There's no way that could have put a 4 foot gash in a 737, here's why. If that was a baggage cart, and it was a "runaway" it could not build up enough momemtum to put even a significant dent in a 737 because the tongues of baggage carts swivel on about a 300 degree arc. So if it was rolling fast, the tongue would be on the pavement and swerve from side to side, and would not to any major damage to anything it hits. Baggage carts also have rubber ends on the top edges of the cart, so if that hit a plane, it would not make a gash. 737s have pretty tough bodies too.

That supervisor lied to you.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:54 am

Stuff like this is commonly referered to as "ramp rash" and the damage to an aircraft varies.

If the aircraft is hit by something that's unpowered, like a bag cart being blown into the fuselage by surface winds or jet blast, the ensuing damage will most likely be a scrape or a dent in the fuselage versus a puncture. Impact speed is a factor.

If an aircraft is hit with a powered piece of ground equipment like a tug, belt loader, or lav cart, the impact force is greater, and you're more likely looking at more serious damage like a punctured fuselage or popped rivets.

Aircraft are not written off for these relatively minor types of damage. If the damage is severe enough where rivets are popped or the fuselage is punctured, the aircraft will usually be flown out as an unpressurized maintenance ferry to an airport where repairs can be made, assuming it's not already at an airport where it can be accomplished.

The only time I can think of an incident where ground damage was bad enough to write-off an aircraft was at DEN 2-3 years ago. A taxiing 727 (freighter) was hit broadside in the nose by a fast-moving bus or truck on the ramp, and the impact was bad enough to break the captain's left leg.

I'll see if I can find some pictures....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 12:02 pm

Longer ago than I thought, late 1997...

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Photo © AirNikon

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
SegmentKing
Topic Author
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 12:09 pm

then why did Delta have to get 45 hotel rooms in Ft. lauderdale tonight? Just call the old Howard Johnson on SE 17th Street causeway...........

I've seen FOD happen and cause a plane to get scrapped.

Someone left a footstool for the Metro 23 out and the engine started up, got swept up and slammed into the fuselage, causing a 3 foot gash and damaging the prop, it's gear box, and the fuselage...

-some of our employees were playing on the Ramp in duluth and hit one of our Brasilias with a wheelchair (no less) and it caused so much damage they had to have a cargo plane bring in a NEW spinner, gear box, and new blade

----
I'll talk w/ my buddies who are supervisors at Southwest tonight @ the airport and see if they can clarify..

-nate
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
SegmentKing
Topic Author
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Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 12:19 pm

well i just called Southwest ops (counter probably wouldn't know anything) and she said they're under a gag order.. so *something* happened today that is being investigated by the DOT/FAA....

-nate
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doug_or
Posts: 3138
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:55 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 12:23 pm

dc-10- I've seen dolly with a similar tongue go pretty fast in the wind.... as long as the tongue is faceing "backwards" it tracks relatively straight.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 12:24 pm

The cart hit the aircraft earlier in the day, and the aircraft was damaged sufficiently where it had to be maintenance ferried to ATL for permanent repairs...

Given that this happened so much earlier in the day, I'm not sure the 45 hotel rooms you mentioned has anything to do with it.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 12:46 pm

Oh yeah, back to that 727 at DEN...

Look how far the nosewheel got pushed... That bus must have been hauling butt...

http://aviation-safety.net/database/1997/971001-0.htm
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
hkgspotter1
Posts: 5750
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:43 pm

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 12:49 pm

Thats not very good is it !!
 
SegmentKing
Topic Author
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Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 1:42 pm

well, the person who told me about is a US ramp sup, and they're on other side of Delta, so of course he either saw it happen and heard about the damage 2nd hand, or he was told the story from someone who was there.

But still, no one at Southwest is saying a thing...
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AC320
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 1:55 pm

What was a Southwest cart doing anywhere near a DL plane? I thought SW was still operating out of concourse F on terminal 3, until their new B concourse at terminal 1 is finished? If you the runaway cart would have had to pass through the AA and US gates, then hang a 90 degree turn to hit a DL plane, unless it hit the plane while taxiing, but even then it would cross a few taxiways and some grass probably......

I'm confused
fuddle duddle
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 5:49 pm

It's true...ship #322 sustained damage by a WN baggage cart resulting in a hole in the fuselage measuring over 70in in length and 12in wide. The a/c was not ferried to ATL as previously posted and is currently undergoing repairs at FLL (at least enough to ferry to ATL).
 
DC10Tony
Posts: 991
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 9:51 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 10:04 pm

SegmentKing-

I think if you call a hotel to ask if there's someone staying there, or why certained rooms were booked, I think they're not allowed to tell anyone who wants to know, but that's a different story.

You really called Southwest to ask about an incident? Of course they're under a gag order, you don't think they'd tell anyone who called what happened, do you?  Insane

DL Widget head-

A 5'10" by one foot gash? Come on, I think someone is exagerrating a little. Even if that baggage cart was loaded to capacity, moving at 25 MPH when it hit the 737, and had no rubber pieces on the top edges of the cart (making it easier to penetrate anything it hits), I seriously doubt it would make a gash that big. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I find it extremely hard to believe.
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:34 pm

SegmentKing...I think I'd read that you worked for UAL. If there was an incident involving UAL, would their legal department have a bit of an issue with a counter person making statements? Other places I've worked have had a standing order that anyone inquiring about incidents were to be referred to a specific person or department. I never though of you as one of the "black helicopter" types.
 
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DL_Mech
Posts: 2083
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Mon Dec 30, 2002 12:40 pm

WN Bag Cart.....Made of plate steel

DL 732 Fuselage....Made of aluminum

Which one do you think gets the gash?
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Mon Dec 30, 2002 1:20 pm

How can a baggage cart gain much momentum being that this is in the ultra flat Fort Lauderdale?
 
UAL Bagsmasher
Posts: 1839
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:52 pm

RE: HlywdCatft

Mon Dec 30, 2002 1:31 pm

Some jetblast or a strong gust of wind against a cart with Inop./weak brakes will set it flying pretty quickly. I've seen it happen.
 
SegmentKing
Topic Author
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:05 am

Nah, i'm not with United. I got in trouble years ago when I was working for UAX and one of our 1900s was involved in a fatal crash, so I learned my lesson. I'm an 'independent contractor' per se with the airlines, I just do work on the side for them when i'm not working on a project for a start up out of Chicago.

-nate
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SegmentKing
Topic Author
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:11 am

In regards to the hotel, I was trying to find a hotel room for one of the mechanics for a company associated w/ one I do some work with (just being helpful) ... I normally got the best airline rates @ the HoJo, so called them, and they volunteered the info over the phone......

anyway, Southwest also uses concourse "E" at FLL, although Delta is just around the corner.

Delta also parks one of its planes in the holding pad between E / F concourses now....

-n
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SegmentKing
Topic Author
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: WN Bag Cart Hits DL 73S @ FLL

Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:39 am

back again,

reason I called WN Ops in FLL is i know a large deal of their supervisors and ops folks (non-work related) and they normally let me know what's going on, so I figured it was worth a shot.

No one is still talking, but I'm wondering if a bag cart strayed and hit one of their parked planes in the E/F static ramp.... i mean, the winds DO get strong in FLL.... strong enough to send one flying across a ramp if the tongue isn't locked in the 'up' position...
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~

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