United777
Topic Author
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 8:04 am

What If There Was No 777?

Sun Dec 29, 2002 12:42 pm

Do you ever think what Boeing would be without the 777 series aircraft. Where do you think Boeing would have been in the 90's if they just went ahead with another model of the 767 series like the 767-400. The 777 was made because airlines wanted a aircraft between the 747-400 and 767-300. If Boeing just came out with a stretched 767 for that do you think it would have as popular as the 777-200 /-300?
 
thadocta
Posts: 389
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RE: What If There Was No 777?

Sun Dec 29, 2002 12:48 pm

Hard to say - remember that the 777 was developed based on airline requirements, yet one of the airlines which was instrumental in evolving the requirements - Qantas - did not go on to purchase any.

I do not think the 764 would have markedly increased sales if the 777 did not happen - something *MUCH* larger was needed, and the orders probably would have gone to Airbus, probably for the A330 - who knows, in the absence of an aircraft which suits the mission like the 777 does, perhaps Airbus would have evolved their offerings a bit more than they have.

Dave
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: What If There Was No 777?

Sun Dec 29, 2002 1:01 pm

Air Transport Business has a great article on the 777 which discusses much of this in detail, why there was no 767X instead.

If they hadn't built the 777, the world would have many more of the A330 and A340, and the "Boeing" MD-11, and likely the MD-xx longer-range plane.

N
 
Guest

RE: What If There Was No 777?

Sun Dec 29, 2002 1:18 pm

Dude, don't even kid about a think like that!!!!!

Nearly everyone who has flown the Seventh Wonder should agree with me, it is the best in the sky.

My 777 flights (both on United):

Los Angeles - Honolulu (economy)
Honolulu - Los Angeles (economy)
Chicago - Frankfurt, Germany (business)
Frankfurt, Germany - Chicago (first)
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4887
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RE: What If There Was No 777?

Sun Dec 29, 2002 3:34 pm

IF Boeing had not built the 777, McDonnell Douglas would still be around cranking out MD-11s and MD-12s as fast as they could. And, hopefully, they would have gone ahead with the MD-11-50.... and addressed the existing MD-11-30's range and economy... concerns, shall I say.

Boy oh boy, how the tides have turned.

Randy
 
slawko
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: What If There Was No 777?

Sun Dec 29, 2002 3:42 pm

I also think that MDC would still be around, and they would have a long range twin of their own...Airbus would probably be much further ahead right now too..
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
User avatar
PW100
Posts: 2723
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RE: What If There Was No 777?

Sun Dec 29, 2002 8:27 pm

Hmmm. No 777?? Lets see.
The evolved MD-11 and MD-12 would rule the world like the 777 does now;
The world would have never seen 180 min ETOPS;
MDC would have taken over Boeing and closed down by now the 757/767;
Everett would be rolling out MD11/12s;
The 744 line would be closed by now, since the MD11/12 [and -F] would have taken over;
A380 would start revenue service next month with BA;
Longbeach would be rolling out an MD90/95 every single working day;
Aviation experts would be arguing with each other when Renton would be producing the last 737;
Even the moving assembly line couldn't save the 737;
The number of MD narrowbodies in Americans fleet would be beyond any imagination [500+];
Only Airbus would be producing big twins;
Thus Continental would be 100% Airbus;
The world would have never seen 115.000 lbs of thrust [from a single turbofan];

Oh yeah, and Alan Mulaly would have been asked to run United Airlines. . . .

PW100
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
larspl
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: What If There Was No 777?

Sun Dec 29, 2002 10:23 pm

without a 777, airbus would have built an A370
facebook.com/ddaclassicairlines
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
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RE: What If There Was No 777?

Sun Dec 29, 2002 10:52 pm

Larspl,

What are you talking about with A370?? Do you think even need built new Airbus A370 or maybe not? I am serious about something was goes on for next generation of the new Airbus jet. Anyone please tell me what is going on this posted for me, please? Thanks!!

Regards,

Scott W.
 
JMO-777
Posts: 463
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RE: What If There Was No 777?

Mon Dec 30, 2002 12:42 am

@PW100
Very nice story!!!  Big grin

@ A370 topic:
I don't think Airbus will produce such a plane, because of the very very short similarity with Boeing the "7". Perhaps it'll go A368, A369 :-]!

GreetZ,
Jan
~~~ Fly with a Triple Seven and you feel like in heaven ~~~
 
United777
Topic Author
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 8:04 am

RE: What If There Was No 777?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 7:29 am

Does anybody know why the 777 did not have the folded wingtips so it could fit in smaller airport tarmacs?
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: What If There Was No 777?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 7:37 am

Does anybody know why the 777 did not have the folded wingtips so it could fit in smaller airport tarmacs?

Simply because no airline really wanted it.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
NWA320
Posts: 133
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RE: What If There Was No 777?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 7:38 am

United777: The reason is because it made the plane weigh much more than it was worth.
 
RickB
Posts: 807
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RE: What If There Was No 777?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:02 am

Whilst the 777 is a great aircraft from an economic point of view - with excellent range/payload capability I am at a loss as to why any passengers would rate it highly (I try and avoid it it if possible although I have still accumulated about 50 flights on one). The cabin layout in both economy (2-5-2 or 3-3-3 or even 3-4-3) and business class (2-3-2 or 2-4-2) means from a passenger point of view its less comfortable than a 744 or an A330/340. The 744 offers a much better cabin with higher ceilings giving the impression of much more space - It also in my opinion has a much smoother ride than 777.

The 777 may be a wonderful aircraft from an airline point of view (i.e. economy) but from a passenger comfort point of view - the 744 whoops it.

RickB
 
srbmod
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RE: What If There Was No 777?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:23 am

If Boeing had not built the 777, they probably would have developed a 747-400SP, essentially a 747SP-NG. A shorter-bodied version of the 747-400 that would have seated a max of 300 pax, and incorporating the technological advances into the old SP design. They would have have two versions of it, the 400SP would have a slightly lesser range than the 747-400, and the 400SP-ER, which would have been the true successor to the original 747SP. I think that the customers that would have bought it would have been current customers of the 747-400, like BA, United, NWA, Korean, and JAL. Airlines like Delta, Continental, and AA probably would have gone with MDD's widebodies instead of adding the 747-400SP. MDD would have by then created the best version of the MD-11, with the range problems fixed (and also able to modify the earlier MD-11s to the new standard), and the MD-12 would have been the launch aircraft for the GE-90 engine, as MDD decided to make it twin-engined in order to compete against the A330.
 
AvObserver
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Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:40 am

RE: What If There Was No 777?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 9:31 am

Without the 777, Boeing would be in way deeper straits than they already are. It and the 737NG are the only really decent sellers in their product line, though the 717 hasn't been bad as of late. The 747 & 767 hang on but aren't fluorishing and the 757 has been mired in a serious sales drought. Boeing should be thankful it had the foresight back in 1990 to go with an all-new design, rather than an enlarged 767. Hopefully, it will have the same foresight to forge ahead with the new Super-Efficient medium-sized transport, rather than just continuing to tweak the 757 & 767 in hopes of a few more orders.
 
Airbus Lover
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RE: What If There Was No 777?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 7:50 pm

I too think that the 777 is a perfect aircraft except that i do not like the seating arrangement in economy. same for business although we have SQ's generous 2-2-2 but other airlines seem to have 2-3-2....

When it comes to abreast arrangements, I would say the 767 and the A330/340 is the best, especially the 767..
 
The Coachman
Posts: 1192
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RE: What If There Was No 777?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:33 pm

Dare I say it, UA wouldn't have last this long. Without the B777, UA would have kept ordering B747-400's and it would have gone under at least a year ago. The superior economics of the B777 on long-thin routes have kept it alive IMO.

Boeing would be in deep dung without the B777. The A340 would have been ordered in massive quantities without any fear (whether justified or not) of ETOPS regulations.
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
RIX
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RE: What If There Was No 777?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 7:18 am

Much more 340s (and, may be, more 330s), quite likely MDD still alive with MD11s and derivatives.

747 more comfortable than 777? Probably, as it is simply larger (wider and "less circular"). But this is the interior of 777 (and 764) that makes it so special and outstanding - feeling like you are not inside it! You may not notice it - until you fly again on 747 or MD11 or 330/340 or older 767 soon after you were on 777/764...
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: What If There Was No 777?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:49 pm

I don't think McDonnell Douglas would be around still. The main reason Boeing bought McDonnell Douglas was because of MDC's military contracts. In the grand scheme of things, the commercial aspect of MDC's business was not close to what they made in military deals, so Boeing may just have gone ahead with that deal, 777 or no 777. Just look at how fast they closed down the MD-11 and MD-80/90 lines. They probably would have shut down the MD-95 (717) line too, if that aircraft wasn't showing as much promise as it did when the deal went through.

I don't think the MD-11s sales would have increased that dramatically, because, as beautiful a plane she is, she still had drastic range problems, and I'm sure a lot of the orders would have gone to the A340 and A330. I think if Boeing hadn't built the 777 then, they would have eventually. Or they'd be facing a dark future of becoming a largely narrow-body manufacturer. The 737 and 757 lines would continue to be strong, the 764 probably would have seen increased sales, especially from smaller carriers who bought the 777, like Air Europe and maybe Lauda, or something along those lines.

It would have been different to say the least.

LH423
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