Beefmoney
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What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Wed Jan 01, 2003 2:28 pm

Heres where it all started: I was down at PHX today at about 11:00 watching the Fiesta Bowl charters arrive. Anyway, a Highway Patrol C-182RG is on approach to PHX, and he asked for landing on rwy 8 (far north runway) but the controller gave him instructions to land on 7R (far south runway). Now, apperantly the pilot was not at all thrilled with the idea of taxiing from the south-east side of sky harbor all the way to the north west side (where Highway Patrol planes park) at the normal taxiing speed, as that would take upwards of 10 mins. So he landed on 7L, and what he did next absolutely astounded me. As he was crossing the south airbridge (If you are in PHX, you know what im talking about) he proceeded go full throttle for about 6 seconds and taxi the entire length at about 60-80 kts!!! Now, I fly Cessna 172s on the weekend, and I know how fast one is going when I see it. He was well above flying speed. As a matter of fact, there is a large bump about 3/4 of the way down the bridge, and when he hit it he actually flew for about 10 feet about a foot off the ground. He obviously had to forcefully keep the elevator down to keep him on the taxiiway.

My father, a certified flight instructor, noticed this as well and actually started walking pretty fast in the direction of the car to get the camera, because even he thought he was going to attempt to make a takeoff from the taxiiway!

Sorry for the long story, but my question is this: Is there any disciplinary action that the airport/FAA/government could take against a pilot taxiing that fast, and possibly endangering lives? I know I would NEVER try to taxi that fast at ANY airport, especially at an international airport. And what do you think the max safe taxi speed is? Whatever it is, I think that what the Highway Patrolman Pilot did was very dangerous and unwise in any aspect.

What a day Smile
 
covert
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:31 am

none
 
avroarrow
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:54 am

Sounds like a typical Cop. They speed and set their own rules when they drive and also when they fly apparently.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 1:06 am

Yeah, the cowboy with the tin star apparently didn't like being told what to do by the ATC tower. Airports taxiways do have speed limit for aircrafts. To give that cop the benefit of the doubt, he may had to use the bathroom. Big grin
Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 5:15 am

He had just recieved word that the donuts had just arrived, and they were going quickly so he'd better hurry his a** up. Apparently he made it.
Puhdiddle
 
Gnomon
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 1:40 pm

On a 182, it's impossible to maintain the "brisk walk" speed without riding the brakes. I tried during my checkride and the examiner said, quote, "To hell with maintaining the brisk walk crap. Don't ride the brakes."

60-80 kts during taxi, now that's another story. What an asshole.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 4:27 pm

Sounds like an aspiring Southwest Airlines pilot to me! Their normal taxi speed is just under V1...  Big grin
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
JETPILOT
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:27 pm

Southwest pilots get paid by the trip not by the hour so they are always taxying like madmen....

JET
 
GE
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:43 pm

Hehe that explains it. Thanks for the info JETPILOT. Big grin

Regards,
Russell J.


 
adh214
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:50 pm

Thanks for the comment on WN. I have also noticed that WN tends to taxi at high speed. Of course with only 20 minutes between flights they may be trying to get back on schedule.

Andrew
 
Tom in NO
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:23 am

We here at MSY used to threaten to put up speed bumps on the ramp in the alley ways around WN's gates to get them to slow down, heh heh!

Tom in NO (at MSY)
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:52 am

Funny you should mention fast taxing speeds. I seem to recall reading somewhere that a KX (Caymen Airways) pilot was actually ticketed (or cited) by authorites for speeding his 732 on the ramp @ IAH several years back.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
USAFHummer
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:22 am

LOL Thomasphoto...I have this funny picture in my head of a police car chasing the 732 with its siren and lights blaring...and bullhorn screaming "Pullover"...then the cop getting out and getting an airport stair truck up to the cockpit to write the ticket...argh my imagination is running wild today...

Greg
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archie
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:57 am

A teacher of mine once said that you should taxi at the speed at which you wouldn´t mind walking into a wall hahaha.

Regards,

Archie
 
jhooper
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 7:12 am

entire length at about 60-80 kts!!!

Is that really possible? You'd have to basically hold full down elevator, wouldn't you?



Southwest pilots get paid by the trip not by the hour so they are always taxying like madmen....


I've notices that Southwest pilots taxi like madmen, but how would taxiing fast cause them to get paid more? They have a set number of legs to fly, right? So it shouldn't really affect how long they're at work.


a KX (Caymen Airways) pilot was actually ticketed (or cited) by authorites for speeding his 732 on the ramp @ IAH several years back.


I can't find a regulation which defines "speeding" on the ramp. Is this a city ordinance? Can cities/states regulate aircraft movements? I know they've tried, but if taken to court it would probably be held invalid. (Although I think I'd probably rather just take the citation from the local cop rather than risk a "careless and reckless operation" accusation from the FAA.)

Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 8:24 am

Jeremy,

that's a good question, sadly I don't know. It was something that I read sometime back, I'll see if I can locate it and post it here.

Greg,

I was thinking the same thing, actually from what I remember reading was that the pilot was cited by HAS operations. Still the image of one of HPD's Blue Bombs in hot persuit of a 732, tickles me.

One other story that I heard from the ramp was an incident involving a US Postal 721 (Ryanair) speeding into it's stand at IAH's cargo ramp without a marshaller. Bare in mind this was still under the cover of darkness and the flight was very early so much so that the handling company had no personnel on the ramp at the time. The pilot (nicknamed 'pegleg') had a reputation of flying on the ground if you know what I mean. Anyway the pilot was so impatient that he decide to park the plane without the marshaller and in doing so his port wing clipped a nearby deckloader, thus grounding the aircraft. As for 'Pegleg', well from what I heard he took an early retirement. This story was relayed to me from one of the supervisors who worked for the now defunct ground company.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
triley1057
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 8:43 am

I also have heard of the Cayman Airways incident at IAH. If memory serves me correctly, the plane was taxiing to the gate at about 60mph.
 
Beefmoney
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 9:44 am

entire length at about 60-80 kts!!!

Is that really possible? You'd have to basically hold full down elevator, wouldn't you?


Ive been spotting at my local GA Airport for 10+ years, and I have seen thousands of Cessnas taxi, takeoff, land, and everything inbetween. Plus I fly them. So I think im fairly correct in my estimate of his speed. But, I didnt have a radar gun or anything to actually clock him so Im not 100% certain but I am certain that his speed was above at least 50 kts.

Those crazy cops Smile



 
BA
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:21 am

Different airports have different taxi speeds from what I've observed.

I have never experience a faster taxi than in Denver (DEN).

I was on a United Airlines A320 heading to Runway 7/25 (one of the 2 East-West runways) and wow, we were going fast.

Not 60-80knots obviously, but fast. I've never experienced a faster taxiway anywhere else.

I guess that's because DEN is roomy.  Smile

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
USAFHummer
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 11:22 am

Isnt 60-80 about flying speed for a -182? His nosewheel must have been shimmying like crazy...

With regards to WN pilots...they do taxi extremely fast, however I personally think it has more to do with the tight schedule they are on due to the quick turnarounds...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
Beefmoney
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 11:34 am

Isnt 60-80 about flying speed for a -182?

Yes, thats pretty much why he flew for a few seconds when he hit the ridge on the taxiway Smile

Im sure he had alot of down elevator to keep him from flying for much longer, because im sure if anyone else saw him actually flying above the taxiway like that for a prolonged period of time, he would be in MAJOR trouble.
 
Shawn Patrick
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:53 pm

If I recall correctly, typical (airliner, dunno about those Cessnas!) taxi speeds are 20 kts on regular taxiways, up to 50 kts on high-speed taxiways, and 10 kts when making turns.

Shawn
 
TWAL1011
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:01 pm

Seems like on the 4 segments I've flown on Mesa (AWE) CRJ's, the taxi has been quite fast.
 
BA
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:09 pm

Shawn Patrick,

25kts is the typical speed on regular taxiways. Between 5-10kts is the speed when turning.

50kts sound right for high-speed taxiways. Not all airports have high-speed taxiways however.

It seems like Denver (DEN) has quite a bit as we were taxiing at what I believe was between 40-50kts.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:10 pm

One other thing,

On high-speed exits (the diagonal exits that go off runways used by aircraft to clear the runway quickly), I think have a speed between 70-80kts.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Beefmoney
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:24 pm

As was brought to my attention by a fellow A.net member, I now believe I overestimated the speed he was taxiing. 60-80 is a tad fast Smile I now think it was around 50kts, but most definately no less than 45.

NONETHELESS!!! I still believe he was taxiing at far too great a speed to allow adaquate distance to stop in case of a sudden obstruction. (this taxiway was crossed by the main road the service vehicles use to get to and from the terminal ramps. One baggage truck crossing the taxiway without stopping and there could have been a collision.

So, I hope you can forgive my overestimation Smile Smile
 
TWAL1011
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:28 pm

As was brought to my attention by a fellow A.net member

So what did he/she say that made you change your mind?  Smile
 
Beefmoney
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:36 pm

That I was making a mockery of A.net Smile Smile
 
concorde1518
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:17 pm

To answer your question about how a per-trip pay would make one taxi faster, it all comes down to the time that they'll have left over at the end of the day at the hotel or with the family. Most figure "hell, if i can get paid XYZ and shave off minutes, it's all good.." Plus, their flightplans time the flight so tight, there is most likely very little time allotted to taxi.

 Smile
 
chautauquasaab
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RE: What Is The Max Safe Speed Limit For Taxiing?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:35 pm

Taxi speeds at Indianapolis International also seem high, a function, I suppose, of the distance between the new runways and the terminal area. It will be a major improvement when the new mid-field terminal is constructed. I agree with the previous post that WN taxi speeds always seem greater than other carriers.