717fan
Topic Author
Posts: 1977
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 10:51 am

SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 4:37 pm

I have heard that SAS is planning to add 8 more MD-90's to its fleet...Can anyone confirm that? Does it makes sense to operate the MD-90, the 738 and the A321 in the same fleet? I am wondering what SAS is planning for its mixed fleet in the future.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 5:00 pm

They obviously already operate the MD-90, and reportedly are very happy with them.

They can also get them cheap.

The A321 is a larger aircraft than the 738 and MD-90, so may not be a direct competitor in their fleet.

N
 
cfm-56
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:37 pm

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 5:27 pm

According to Airlinerworld they were evaluating the possibility to sell them or park them, this would be strange if they suddenly changed their mind.
 
TriStar500
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RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:25 pm

There have been speculations about SK buying ex-AA or DL M90's for years, so I would not put too much weight in this rumor yet.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
SAS-A321
Posts: 348
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RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 7:23 pm

I really doubt it! They have several aircraft parked so why buy more aircraft? Also as TriStar500 say there have been speculations for a long time now and I just think that it's a "delayed" rumor!
It's Scandinavian
 
FBU 4EVER!
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Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:53 am

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:54 pm

"New" MD-90's for SAS have been on and off the agenda for almost a year.The 90's in question are 5x ex Reno and 3x ex Egyptian operated machines.
There has been a controversy about "life-limited" component serial numbers amongst other things;what's stated in the documentation does not correlate to the parts actually in the planes.There might have been a mix-up at the factory.Minor mods to bring the planes up to full SAS config. has also been discussed.
SAS at presently operate 8x MD-90's with great satisfaction.They are operated by a small group of MD-80 pilots as the number of planes are too small to operate with the whole MD-80 pilot group.This makes for some uneconomical crew rostering,as well as making the MD-90 fairly uneconomical to operate within SAS.At least 15 plane fleet of a type is regarded as the minimum amount to achieve profits.
The deal with Boeing is to deliver MD-80's on a 2-for-1 basis,the first MD-80's having been placed in storage for this deal,which is now set for this spring with the additional 90's entering service with the summer schedules.
The additional 90's mean that all SAS MD-80 pilots will check out on the 90.The MD-80/90 fleet in SAS is not now going to be phased out until 2010-2015 period,at least.
In the meantime,efforts are going on to get rid of the 737-600 (VERY difficult!),possibly also the 737-700,and have the MD's and these 73's replaced by more Airbus 32x's.But that's "far into the future" (5-10 years) as my friend,an engineer with our (SAS) technical dep't. said.He's deeply involved with this deal.
"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
 
Thomas_Jaeger
Posts: 2217
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 5:35 pm

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 9:29 pm

Has anyone got more details on the current negotiations between LH and SK on proposed wet-lease operations with SK aircraft on behalf of LH?
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
cfm-56
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:37 pm

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:35 pm

So we might see more MD90s in SAS colours that's nice to see.I hope they'll find someone interested in the 736 but isn't the -700 variant easier to sell?
 
akelley728
Posts: 1968
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:36 pm

FBU 4EVER!:

Can you elaborate on the deal with Boeing? You said Boeing is going to deliver MD-80s on a 2-1 basis... do you mean to say MD-90s? Is it 2 MD-80s for a MD-90? Thanks...

Do you have the reg#s for the ex Egyptian machines? I had heard that SAS was going to pick up the three ex Air Aruba machines also.l
 
transswede
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 9:30 am

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:55 am

AKelley,

Yes, SAS would be exchanging 2 MD-80's for every MD-90 they would recieve.

The ex- egyptian aircraft in question would be from the airline AMC, and three of the following AMC MD-90's in airliners.net's database are possibly destined for SAS:

SU-BMQ (s/n 53576)
SU-BMR (s/n ?)
SU-BMT (s/n 53601)
SU-BMS (s/n 53553)
 
godbless
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:04 am

FBU 4EVER!,
I have also heard about the MD-80/MD-90 deal and a few months ago I heard from a person at SK that the last MD-80 will be retired from service in 2015.
It has been probably been 3 years since I first heard the rumor that the 736 would maybe be replaced by an increased order for the A32S.
I see two problems with this though and that is the capacity of the 737-600 aircraft (73G is very unimportant as they only have something like seven frames on routes within Norway) which can not be replaced by an Airbus efficiently. The A318 will for sure have the same lousy characteristics as the Boeings and if they go for the larger A319 then they loose the smaller capacity plane that the 736 was intended to be. This would mena that SK would have to add another aircraft family to it's MD-80/MD-90, 737NG and A321 fleet.
Another factor already mentioned is where to put the planes taken out of the fleet? The 736 does not sell like hot cakes. SAS has the majority of the 737-600's built in it's fleet and it will be very hard to flood the market with an aircraft that isn't a bestseller anyways. The airline invested too much into building up the fleet to just park them in the desert.

Max
 
FBU 4EVER!
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RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:04 am

TranSwede is right.SAS will deliver 2 -80's to Boeing for each -90 as payment.
This will give SAS a necessary reduction in the overall number of MD-80's,while at the same time make the MD-90 fleet profitable and also eliminate one roster group of pilots which will improve efficiency of crew rostering.
Some MD-80's have already been withdrawn from service and several are stored at Dinant,France in view of the upcoming deal.
The AMC planes are the one's in question.I have not heard about any Air Aruba planes involved with this deal.
"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
 
akelley728
Posts: 1968
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:51 am

TransSwede:

Thanks for your information. FYI: SU-BMT was leased from UNI Air, but was returned sometime last year. It is flying now for UNI as B-17922.

The s/n for SU-BMR is 53552.

FBU 4EVER!:

How many MD-80s does SAS currently operate? Do you know which ones have been/are to be withdrawn from service?

Wasn't there a major issue with the ex Reno aircraft having a different cockpit configuration (EFIS vs. whatever) than the SAS aircraft?
 
godbless
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RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 3:19 am

Wasn't there a major issue with the ex Reno aircraft having a different cockpit configuration (EFIS vs. whatever) than the SAS aircraft?

I thought that only Saudia had MD-90's with the different cockpit layout. Would be interesting to know if there are more different layouts flying around with the [very small] MD-90 fleet.

Where are the Ex-Reno planes at the moment?

Max
 
FlagshipAZ
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Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 12:40 am

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:51 am

Per Bill Harms' website, all 5 ex-Reno MD-90s are sitting at MJZ, along with the 3 ex-Air Aruba ships. 2 other MD-90s are stored at VCV as well. It'll be interesting to see if these 10 ships will ever make it to the skies again. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
FBU 4EVER!
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Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:53 am

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:05 am

The Reno and AMC planes have the standard (more or less) cockpit which SAS also has.I believe only Saudia operates the "MD-11" variant.
From SAS HQ,Technical,I've been told the 736 is the most expensive plane SAS is operating at the present time.With the type being the most unpopular type to bid for,most of the pilots flying it have been assigned it against their will.That means basically that those flying it are on the lower end of the seniority list,and most of the pilots that have been fired from 1st April this year (2003) fly the 73.When they leave SAS,opportunity will be taken to ground and store many of the 736's.
As for the exact number of MD-80's being operated for the time being,I'm not sure,but it will be in the mid-50's.Discounting the -90's.
"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
 
Guest

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 7:06 am

They might go to "SASLite". Either 737 goes, or MD90.
 
FlagshipAZ
Posts: 3192
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 12:40 am

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 7:53 am

Again per Bill Harms' website, I counted 64 MD-80s of various sub-types in SAS fleet. They had 66 different -80s, but 2 have since been written off. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
FBU 4EVER!
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RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:33 pm

First of all: SAS LITE will start to operate later this year using 4 MD-80's taken from the SAS fleet.
As for Bill Harm's site,he's referring to ALL the MD-80's having been operated by SAS,excluding 8 ex Swissair machines operated during the latter half of the -90's.SAS Flightops website hasn't been updated for a while either.
At least 6,possibly 8,MD-80's have been withdrawn from ops and are stored at several locations.Both MD-83's are among them.
"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
 
MEA-707
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RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 11:26 pm

http://www.airlinerlist.com has a fleetlist which counts all currently in service, and excludes stored and parked ones. By 10 december 2002 SAS had 59 MD-80s and 8 MD-90s in service.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
godbless
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Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 11:31 pm

Last thing I heard is that SAS Lite will operate with a fleet of four 737-800's.
The planes that are leased out to Air One(?) would be part of the SAS Lite fleet. But I guess you have more insight into this matter so I will accept the MD-80 idea.

Max
 
FBU 4EVER!
Posts: 980
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RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Sat Jan 04, 2003 4:13 am

We,MD-80 pilots,have been told we are to fly this production when the routes start up this spring.But there may always be changes/amendments to plans,especially within SAS where there's a cost-cutting program presently running.Plans change continuously.MD-80's are planned as of this moment;1912 GMT!Sorry!UTC! Big grin
"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
 
717fan
Topic Author
Posts: 1977
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 10:51 am

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Sat Jan 04, 2003 5:00 am

Does anybody knows the exact number of MD-90's SAS will probably buy/lease?
Thanks a lot.
 
sk945
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 6:28 am

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Sat Jan 04, 2003 6:44 am

FBU 4EVER,
When checking the timetable for ARN, these all new routes are stated as flied with B738. But of curse, thinks always could change. I checked may 8th, DUB, Rome, Alicante will all be flewn with B738 due to the timetable.
 
cmsgop
Posts: 132
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RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Sat Jan 04, 2003 9:05 am

I Loved the MD-90. Fast as heck on T.O.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Sat Jan 04, 2003 9:28 am

Heh yeah it was a massively powered plane.

Same size-ish as the MD-80, but with 28 or 30k pound engines.

N
 
717fan
Topic Author
Posts: 1977
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 10:51 am

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Sat Jan 04, 2003 11:58 pm

Will they exchange only the MD-81/82 and 83? What about the MD-87?
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Sun Jan 05, 2003 12:17 am

Since the 737-883s of SAS have been mentioned nearly as much as the subject aircraft of this topic... Am I correct in my understanding that SK's 738s are operated in single-class configuration, almost exclusively on intra-Scandanavian services?

If so, more MD-90s would not necessarily by a redundant aircraft type in the 150-seat category since they would presumably be in two-class configuration for services from Scandanavia to the U.K. and the European continent while the 738s would serve as niche aircraft on routes within the SAS member nations. Or, as some have suggested, the 738s would even form the fleet of SK's "airline within an airline."
 
User avatar
yyz717
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RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Tue Jan 07, 2003 3:09 pm

The Jan 6th issue of airwaysnews online reports today that SAS has reached an agreement with Boeing to acquire 8 addl MD-90's (5 ex-Reno Air, 3 ex-AMC) in exchange for 16 MD-80's. So SAS will be expanding the MD-90 fleet but reducing capacity overall. Deliveries will commence early summer.

Neil.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
FlagshipAZ
Posts: 3192
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 12:40 am

RE: SAS To Add 8 More MD-90's?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:36 am

Good news for the MD-90s indeed. I didn't think these birds would ever feel the winds beneath their wings again. On the flip side, it'll probably means those MD-80s being traded in will not see the skies again. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin

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