sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Thu Jan 02, 2003 7:55 pm

Some 'unofficial' news about SN Brussels Airlines:

*) SN Brussels Airlines is expected to announce several extended codeshare agreements with One World partner airlines early next week....
Some will start as from the summer season (IB) others will take almost immediate effect (BA).

*) The first A319 will arrive in Brussels first week of February and will be used on the current European network as from February 7th to allow the flightcrews to fully familiarize with the new plane. Destinations served would vary on a day to day basis according to the loadfactor, but GVA is certainly one of them... Second plane arrives first week of March and will also immediately be used. 3rd plane will come only one or two days before the start of the new summer timetable on 28th March...

http://www.brusselsairlines.com

 
pressclub
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:24 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:49 pm


x With Iberia we may expect at least a codeshare on the Brussels-Barcelona route. Unclear if Madrid will be included as well.

x Info about early intro of the A319 I can confirm. Already crewshedules made.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Thu Jan 02, 2003 9:29 pm

BA:
The codeshare with British Airways will be a very intensive one: LHR(9x), LGW(2x), BHX(6x) and certainly MAN. I do not know for sure if SN is going to let BA add their flightcode to the 2 other UK routes served exclusively by SN, i.e. BRS and NCL?
Maybe if BA gives some other new destinations in return....

IB:
As far as I know, MAD is going to be served with the A319 by SN itself, but it might very well be in a codeshare with IB. Would make sense too since BIO is already in codeshare and BCN is going to be in a full codeshare too, with IB doing the flights to this later destination...

Seems the rumors are correct, but hardly anybody knows who will be doing what flights...
 
pressclub
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:24 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Thu Jan 02, 2003 9:50 pm

also AZ codeshare in the pipeline I hear...

So it seems that the popualr destinations served 2day 2gether with VEX will be replaced by codeshares with IB en AZ...
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Thu Jan 02, 2003 9:57 pm

That would be great news of course, but personally I haven't heared anything about it....

However, as the policy of SN is not to join a global alliance so they can work with all airlines: BA, IB (Oneworld), LOT (Star) CSA and maybe AZ (Skyteam) this could be true.
 
Com3205
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:11 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:14 am

Hi Pressclub
Did you hear something about a lowcost comming to EBBR this year (16 planes)?
Greetz
 
User avatar
apuneger
Posts: 2964
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 2:43 pm

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:18 am

Thanks for the news, guys...

Com3205: I heard a rumour (!) about Easyjet (please mind the '!')...

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
Com3205
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:11 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:34 am

Apuneger I'm not talking about EZY but another lowcost. If it's correct SNBA is going to have some problems. EZY had some talks with BIAC but decided not to come to BRU this year.
Greetz
 
pressclub
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:24 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:23 am



Com3205,

BIAC is searching for new clients but they are not so succesful in this attempt. I heard nothing about a low-cost... As you know flying low-cost to a high cost airport is not that easy... and start-up with 16 aircraft never happened in aviation history before. But maybe some airlines from your country - Vatican City I see in your profile - can organise a wonder in Brussels.

 SmilePressclub Smile
 
El Al 001
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:27 am

What about SN's plans for TLV?

I think SN should sign a codeshare with LY on that, just like Sabena used to have.

Mike
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:51 am

Wow, thanks for the very interesting news!

I'm very glad with the codeshares...

Is IB going to increase capacity on the BRU-BCN flights? At the moment 3 A320's scheduled for this summer I believe...

/Frederic
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:43 am

A little bird told me that 'De Morgen' of tommorow will be full with facts and figures about SN Brussels Airlines!!  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up

Run to your newspapershop tomorrow morning! Big grin

/Frederic
 
sterne82
Posts: 394
Joined: Sun May 07, 2000 4:50 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:50 am

And will those facts bring us smiles or headaches?

Regards,

Benjamin

 
User avatar
apuneger
Posts: 2964
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 2:43 pm

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 03, 2003 8:54 am

Can't wait for the SN BA 2002 Annual Report. I'm going to do everything I can to get a copy of that. If not, I'll just go and get copies of the one they have at the NBB (unless it's undisclosed)...

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:33 pm

Rumours about BA taking over some of the UK-Belgium routes, using RJ100 a/c...
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:52 pm

Graham, Newcastle and Bristol are in the pipeline...

Further details about SNBA (source: De Morgen):

x SNBA transported 2.6 million pax during it's first year of existance
x European loadfactor: 48.2%
x African loadfactor: 53.1%  Wow!
x they welcomed less clients than expected (had hoped for a load factor of 49.6% in Europe and 59% in Africa), but the revenues of the pax were better than expected (people payed more for their ticket than expected)
x the flights didn't have much delay on average
x they ask more flexibility from the staff (to be profitable in 2003)
x in the summer-months of 2003, hundreds of flights are going to be scrapped due to low demand
x a capitalinjection is not necessary, following Rob Kuypers
x a war with VEX is expected when the codeshares end in March 2003. VEX is going to open 3 new destinations and stays flying to the actual codeshare destinations with SNBA (which SNBA is also going to serve with codeshares like BCN and MAD, or on their own like Nice)
x codeshare with IB on BRU-BCN and BRU-MAD, also negociations with AZ for BRU-FCO
x codeshare with BA on BRU-NCL and BRU-BRS
x with their own A319's (with the first one joining the fleet the 7th of February 2003), flights to TLV and IST are planned
x SNBA is also negociating with an American carrier (probably AA) for one or more destinations in the US. SNBA has not the intention to do the flights themself, so it will probably be an American plane with the SN codeshare flight number on it

Does anyone know the 3 VEX destinations?

Regards,
Frederic
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:53 pm

ARN (Stockholm) GOT (Gothenburg) CPH (Copenhagen)

 
keesje
Posts: 8590
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 03, 2003 8:25 pm

some positive sign's, no over ambitious "lets spread Our Wings all over the World" Sabena like cloud riding.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sven De Bevere


However those load factors are a bit concerning. In the end these are the kind of things that really count, not the number of destinations, newest aircraft, best brands as partners, etc ...
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 03, 2003 8:33 pm

They are the annual loadfactors, Keesje!

SN started the new year flying around almost empty, after Sabena had stopped flying for over 3 days!

It took a very long time to restore confidence, so +/- 50% is not bad...

 
sterne82
Posts: 394
Joined: Sun May 07, 2000 4:50 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 03, 2003 9:09 pm

And what about the yields?

What are their loadfactors projection for 2003? Are they planning to change majors things or not?

Regards,

Benjamin
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Mon Jan 06, 2003 8:33 pm



SN Brussels Airlines has decided to add a third daily flight to Toulouse.

Starting from March 30, 2003, our new night stop service will depart Brussels at 8.35 p.m. The return flight will leave Toulouse the following morning at 6.30 a.m.

"Our new schedule offers passengers travelling out of Toulouse the opportunity to conduct a full day of business in Brussels and better connections on the remainder of our European and African network," says Erik Follet, Executive Vice President Network.
 
SN-A330
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:38 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Mon Jan 06, 2003 9:34 pm

Thanks for the very usefull information Sabenapilot !

Regards, SN-A330

I would rather be flying...
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Tue Jan 07, 2003 12:29 am

Info from the SN Brussels Airlines booking engine:

Flights from BRU:
0915 SN3667 (AR8)
1445 SN3669 (146)
2035 SN3675 (AR8)

Flights from TLS:
0630 SN3676 (AR8)
1140 SN3668 (AR8)
1700 SN3670 (146)
 
pressclub
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:24 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Tue Jan 07, 2003 12:34 am

2 Italian destinations will be add starting next summer season...

 
SN-A330
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:38 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:56 am

@ Pressclub : 2 Italian destinations will be add starting next summer season...


Do you know if that is that a codeshare with Alitalia or not ?

Regards, SN-A330

I would rather be flying...
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:24 am

Yes, I have the same question as SN-A330.

Are those two destinations in Italy new destinations, or are they going to codeshare with AZ on two existing/new destinations?

Regards,
Frederic

 
pressclub
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:24 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:52 am



Catania and Palermo, not in codeshare
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:01 pm

About TLS, I've noticed they added a night-stop flight.
This was much needed since SN can earn a lot of transfering pax through their African network with a night-stop flight.
I've never understood why they scrapped the Bordeaux flight before trying to re-estalblish the night-stop flight there !


FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:59 pm

Catania is already served by Volare A320, codeshared with AZ, and AZ offers great connections to CTA and PMO via FCO and MXP.

Is additional capacity really needed?

Isn't CTA also a former low yield tourist destination of Sabena, which they had to scrap? SN used bigger capacity to CTA (with A320-A321), but was never profitable on the route.

Wouldn't it be much better to add their label on the Volare flight like AZ does?

BTW: are they going to serve Palermo and Catania separate, or are they going to fly BRU-CTA-PMO-BRU?

Regards,
Frederic
 
SN-A330
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:38 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:57 pm

Exactly what I thought Sabena 690 ! CTA and PMO don't seem high yield destinations to me.

Regards, SN-A330

I would rather be flying...
 
lumumba
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 7:16 pm

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Tue Jan 07, 2003 9:02 pm

Hi everybody.
A.A and SN are discusing to code-share on the Chocago -Brussels route?
Regards
Patrice
 
SN-A330
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:38 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Tue Jan 07, 2003 9:11 pm

@ Lumumba : is that a question, because you put a "?" behind or do you know it for sure ?

Regards, SN-A330
I would rather be flying...
 
lumumba
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 7:16 pm

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Tue Jan 07, 2003 9:17 pm

There are still in discutions and it's still not official but it's all in De morgen.
Regards
Patrice
 
pressclub
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:24 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:27 am

I can confirm info from Lumumba. SN BA is discussing a codeshare with AA on the Brussels-Chicago Route. Maybe this will start already in april...

By the wat AA has - starting end of february - again a daily Brussels-Chicago O'Hare flight. Aircraft will be in the new configuration without the first class seating.

Pressclub

x I'll anounce you '2night' the twp new - suprising - VEX destinations  Smile

x SN 690 as far as I know Catania has no direct flight connection with Brussels 2day. Volare flies to Palermo, not to Catania... And Brussels Airlines has decided to focus this summer more on the leisure market.

 
A320-addict
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 1:24 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:53 am

Pressclub,


How could you forget the summer DIRECT link between Bru and Catania on Thomas Cook, and Sobelair!?  Big thumbs up

AA
 
SN-A330
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:38 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:28 am

@ A320-Addict: Thomas Cook ? Are they good ?  Smokin cool

Just a joke: they are great !  Big thumbs up

Regards, SN-A330

I would rather be flying...
 
luchtzak
Posts: 456
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 1:03 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:00 am

Pressclub! 2 new exciting VEX-destinations??

Can't wait to here which ones!  Wink/being sarcastic

greetings,

luchtzak
 
pressclub
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:24 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:38 am

As you perhaps know, A 320 addict, main focus for Thomas Cook and TUI are package holidays... You can't buy tickets via CRS for example... So they focus on another market I think. Compare with Malaga: charters fly AGP and also VEX flies regular to Malaga. Same situation in the summer for ATH and Faro

 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Wed Jan 08, 2003 5:03 am

Sorry Pressclub, I meant PMO but wrote CTA...

Now we talk about charters and scheduled services to Sicily, does anyone know how much a charter airline asks for a return ticket to CTA or PMO?

I think it's difficult to beat the regular AZ promo's (around 180-200 euro return taxes inclusive!).

@Pressclub and other insiders: as you all know, Sabena had a very high cost structure. Do you think that SNBA (who has a lower cost structure as SNBA) can operate the PMO and CTA flights profitably?

Regards,
Frederic
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Wed Jan 08, 2003 5:42 am

Oh yeah, I'm also eagerly waiting for the new VEX destinations Big grin

I was thinking about some possibilities... maybe PMI? Vienna? Venice? Not Palermo/Catania BTW? Big grin Maybe there is a possibility for SVQ? Anyway, I don't think that they are going to restart Ireland, the UK or Germany soon after previous adventures Big grin

Regards,
Frederic
 
A320-addict
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 1:24 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Wed Jan 08, 2003 5:54 am

He Frederic,


For the price of a charter-ticket to CTA or PMO check out the new Thomas Cook Flight only brochure...; by the way the official launch of all new Thomas Cook brochures will be this saturday.

I think you will have a return ticket from Brussels around 200-250Euro.
(By the way check out our service I am certain it can compete with Alitalia's economy  Big grin )


AA
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:31 pm

With pleasure we announce the start up of operations to Palermo and Catania in Summer 2003.

Direct flights to both Palermo and Catania will be operated in Avro 100 on saturday as from 12th of April, 2003 till 27th of September, 2003.

Please find schedules (local time) below :

SN3219 BRU 08:30 CTA 11:30
SN3220 CTA 12:30 BRU 15:30

SN3223 BRU 09:25 PMO 12:15
SN3224 PMO 13:15 BRU 16:05

Touroperators CIT and Wasteels will have an allotment of 60 to 80 seats on each flight. The remaining seats will be open for sales in reservation systems.


 
pressclub
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:24 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:41 pm

SN Brussels will also operate many many charters next summers.

As far as I know: Up to 5 charters a week to Corsica (Ajaccio) for Nouvelles Frontieres and Club Med. And also charters to Bastia, Brindisi, Cagliari and Alghero operated for touroperators.

Pressclub
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Thu Jan 09, 2003 11:53 pm

@ Pressclub;

SN Brussels Airlines already operated many charters flights to those destinations in summer 2002, mainly on behalf of Sobelair except Bastia.
They also operated many charter flights untill recently out of CDG. I can remember Madrid and Tunis flights via Nice.
SNBA flight ops holds on talks with unions to base some some crewsout of BRU for 5 days in a row.

More to follow soon...

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 10, 2003 12:51 am

Booking class is Economy class only on both Palermo and Catania:

Catania: €525

Palermo: €325


 
pressclub
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:24 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 10, 2003 12:58 am

I hear that SN Brussels will probably codeshare next summer its Milan Linate flight with Gandalf Airlines.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:04 am

Pressclub,

Do you know if the flights to Corsica will be shared risk flights too, with SN as operating carrier (the flight listed in the irtimetable and individually bookable) and the Tour Operator simply buying a specific number of seats on this route or if these flights are going to be pure charter flights? like last year?
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:04 am

Sabenapilot, €525 to CTA, is this a joke?

In comparision: KLM asks at the moment about 300 euro for BRU-JFK and BRU-ORD.

AZ asks in promo's about 180-200 Euro for BRU-CTA. SN 525 Euro?????

Why is there a difference of 200 Euro actually between CTA and PMO?

Direct flights to both Palermo and Catania will be operated in Avro 100

To CTA and PMO with an RJ100? Without load restrictions?

@A320-Addict,
Thanks for the info.

(By the way check out our service I am certain it can compete with Alitalia's economy)

I wouldn't say this too fast. I haven't flown TCW yet, but several friends of me flew to CTA some time ago, they even got a warm meal! And pancakes as dessert, which is excellent for a charter airline IMO! But please do not underestimate the service of AZ. I flew from BRU to CTA with them this summer via FCO. I know that there are lot's of ghost stories going around about AZ's catering, but the food that we got was also excellent! And if you can fly cheaper on AZ with 33 inch legspace instead of the 29? of TCW, it would be a difficult choice for someone of 1m93 like me Big grin But I am sure that I would take TCW (I want to support Belgian aviation as much as possible). We had to take AZ, because it was a round trip we had booked with a tour operator...

@FB: why does Luxair actually operate the Bastia flights? Beside the LG flights to Bastia, I also remember me SN flights to Bastia not too long ago...

 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:48 am

Yes, Sabena690

-) prices are as quoted by the booking engine on the Brussels Airlines booking engine. Besides, these were the lowest fares! The highest rate is 1500+ euro. (unrestricted Y ticked).

-) Don't underestimate the range of the RJ, for an airline based in the hart of Europe the problem with the Avro RJ is not so much its range, its the resulting long flight time. Sabena used to serve Sofia on RJ100 payload unrestricted even in summer, but the flight took about 20 minutes longer than on B737. However, unlike for business destinations, this is of very limited importance to holiday destinations.
 
Com3205
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:11 am

RE: SN's New Codeshares And Planes....

Fri Jan 10, 2003 7:09 pm

Expensive!
If you look at the new website of Thomas Cook, just check the flight only part, SNBA will have to lower prices to fill their Avro's. Ex. Allicante 99€
http://www.thomascook.be/

Who is online