backfire
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737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:02 pm

No-one here seems to have mentioned the TAAG Angolan 737 which hit a Cessna 404 at 11,000ft over Namibia a few days ago.

The Cessna pilot landed his badly-damaged aircraft safely - as for the 737, it continued to its destination. How's that for good fortune?
 
Guest

RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Fri Jan 03, 2003 9:03 pm

Interesting.
Do you have some more details about it ?
will also do a little searchwork

 
backfire
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sat Jan 04, 2003 1:00 am

Angolan 737 was operating Windhoek-Luanda. Hit the C404 (originated from Eros/Windhoek domestic airport) with its wing, wrecking the tail.

Very, very, very lucky.
 
EGGD
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sat Jan 04, 2003 1:26 am

Well, sometimes it just happens like that.

Does anyone remember the Royal Airforce aircraft that hit a helicopter killing its occupants, without even noticing?

hmmm.....
 
brentspeed
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sat Jan 04, 2003 1:26 am

Talk about a story for Miller Time!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
backfire
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sat Jan 04, 2003 7:43 am

Well, sometimes it just happens like that.

Yes but the point is that it's extraordinarily rare for both aircraft to get away with it, especially given the contrast in size and speed between a commercial airliner and a light twin.

Incidentally the aircraft/helicopter collision you mentioned involved a small propeller-driven RAF Tucano trainer, and the impact did not kill the helicopter crew - it made a successful emergency landing.

You might have been thinking about the RAF Tornado which hit a Cessna over the UK, killing the crews of both the Tornado and the light aircraft.
 
MEA-707
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sat Jan 04, 2003 8:29 am

More amazing stuff has happened... In 1973, a Spantax Convair 990 and an Aviaco DC-9 had a mid air collision. While the DC-9 perished, the 990 made a safe emergency landing with about a third of its wing having been torn off ! Still the Spantax pilots had little to be proud of, check http://aviation-safety.net/database/1973/730305-2.htm.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sat Jan 04, 2003 8:52 am

as for the 737, it continued to its destination.

Man, Talk about HIT AND RUN.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Puhdiddle
 
POSITIVE RATE
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:17 pm

This is indeed a very rare case. In the majority of mid air collisions 1 aircraft is nearly always destroyed and a lot of the time both aircraft end up crashing. I don't think relative size of the aircraft has anything to do with it- look at the Aeromexico DC-9 which collided with the Archer, the PSA 727 which collided with the C172, or a Piedmont 727 which collided with a Baron back in the 1960's. There was a recent mid-air at Bankstown airport in Australia between a Piper PA28 Warrior and a Socata TB10 Tobago. The TB10 emerged almost unscathed whilst the PA28 crashed and its 4 occupants perished. The main factor in a mid-air is what point on the aircraft the impact is taken. The PSA 727 hit with the leading edge of the starboard wing severing fuel lines in the process. The Aeromexico DC-9 hit with its horizontal stabiliser which then detached from the plane causing the DC-9 to dive into the ground. As long as the impact doesn't involve any major flight controls then it should be survivable except of course if it occurs at cruising altitude where the high airspeeds involved mean chance of survival is 0 if a mid-air happens, this is what happened between the BA Trident and Adria DC-9 over Yugoslavia in 1976(combined speed was about 1200MPH!)
 
kaitak
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sat Jan 04, 2003 5:31 pm

There was a mid air collision survival very early in the jet age, when an Air Algerie Caravelle landed safely at Orly, south of Paris, after surviving a mid air collision. The whole top of the aircraft was burning.
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sat Jan 04, 2003 6:06 pm

Yes, the pilots sure had there day of there career!

-Dmitry
 
backfire
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sat Jan 04, 2003 8:12 pm

I don't think relative size of the aircraft has anything to do with it

If it doesn't then that means the Conservation of Momentum, one of the fundamental principles of physics, has been wrong all these years.

The fact is that if you're in a small aircraft and you get hit by a bigger one, your chances of escaping unscathed are minimal. That's why such collisions rarely see both aircraft survive. Correct me if I'm wrong but in the DC-9/Archer collision and the PSA accident, neither light aircraft survived the impact. The C404 over Namibia did - that's the difference.
 
EGGD
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sun Jan 05, 2003 3:46 am

Backfire - The helicopter crew all perished, but the Tornadoes crew survived and landed safely, without even realizing they had hit something (suspected birdstrike)!.

odd odd world..

But then again, we have things that seemed like they were meant to be. There was the KLM/Pan Am Collision where a string of events for nearly a day led up to the final accident, and the 757/tu-154 collision over the German/Swiss Border where somehow both managed to collide despite being given many warnings to avoid the collision (one goes up, other goes down, then other goes up etc etc etc).

Spooky stuff..
 
backfire
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sun Jan 05, 2003 3:52 am

The helicopter crew all perished, but the Tornado crew survived and landed safely, without even realizing they had hit something

Exactly when did this happen? I don't recollect any such event, and I've been through a fair number of records. Where did it happen, and was it recent?

I know that in the RAF Tucano/helicopter incident the Tucano carried on without realising what had happened. But I can assure you that the helicopter crew did survive.
 
EGGD
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sun Jan 05, 2003 3:57 am

Backfire - As far as I know it occured on the 23nd of June 1993 at 11am, involving RAF Tornado ZG754 and a Jetranger 206B helicoptor, G-BHYW. The collision occured near Kendal, Cumbria.

Sorry I couldn't have been of any more help  Laugh out loud

Dan.
 
backfire
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sun Jan 05, 2003 4:16 am

That's further back than I expected...thanks for the information Big grin
 
POSITIVE RATE
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sun Jan 05, 2003 11:14 am

There was another mid-air from back in the 1970's that i just remembered. An ANA 727(i think) collided with a Japanese Airforce F4 Phantom. The 727 crashed with the loss of all on board whilst the F4 pilots managed to eject after the collision crippled their aircraft.
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sun Jan 05, 2003 11:17 am

It was not a major carrier or location so the press don't care.
 
kaitak
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Sun Jan 05, 2003 8:46 pm

I remember reading some time ago on PPRuNe, on a thread about MK Air, one of its DC8s suffered a birdstrike. Nothing terribly unusual about that, except that people were a little concerned because the bird was in its nest in a tree at the time! Maybe it should be a case of a bird suffering a planestrike!
 
Rick767
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Mon Jan 06, 2003 8:56 pm

"as for the 737, it continued to its destination"

Deryck Leathers of the Airline Pilots' Association of South Africa quite rightly chastised the 737 crew for such reckless behaviour.

How completely irresponsible to continue to your destination having suffered a mid-air collision without knowing the extent of the damage to your own aircraft and therefore subsequently putting the lives of your passengers at totally unnecessary risk.

Makes you wonder... it really does.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
Airbus_A340
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Mon Jan 06, 2003 9:24 pm

"The World's Luckiest Pilot"

I wouldn't say so after being hit by a 737  Smile But yes, he's lucky to have escaped disaster!

Airbus_A340
People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Mon Jan 06, 2003 10:26 pm

Could have been a ex SQ pilot !!. You know, strike a tail stand during the taxi and continue with the departure  Nuts
 
bhill
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:02 am

Backfire...regarding the Conservation of Momentum.. F=ma...size does not matter...if a pea hit an aircraft at tremendous velocity is could be just as catastrophic as a larger object moving slower...

bhill
Carpe Pices
 
dc-10 levo
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:10 am

That pilot sure is lucky.
I wouldn't have thought that the 737 would have carried on to its destination though.

DC-10
 
backfire
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:50 am

Bhill:

This discussion was purely about the chances of a small aeroplane escaping a collision with a big aeroplane - that's all. Given a constant typical aircraft speed, it's mass (size) which makes the difference.

Never mind collision dynamics equations. You can prove it by jumping out in front of a skateboarder. And then doing the same with a bus.
 
star_world
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:21 am

backfire - if you're going to dismiss someone's opinion, at least do it right!  Smile Mass and size have nothing to do with each other... Both are relevant but they're most certainly not the same thing!

star_world
 
backfire
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RE: 737 Mid-air And The World's Luckiest Pilot

Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:46 am

Star_world:

Thanks for the clarification. Since I have a degree in physics, I'm reassured that such things are still as true today as they were in university.

I'm also sure you'd agree that - in general - when things like aeroplanes get bigger, they also get heavier (OK...more massive  Insane ). Yes, it's simplistic. But it makes the point.

In any case, I don't think I dismissed anything. I was just trying to keep the arguments relevant to the original point.

 Smile

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