dennys
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Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:43 am

NW wanted some A340 s in the 90s . Noway that NW will ever fly the A345 ?

regards
dennys
 
gigneil
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW O

Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:49 am

With NW I think so.

With DL I think not.

N
 
doug_or
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:55 am

Look for the 340 in NW colors eventualy, especialy if another another engine option is offered *cough*Pratt*cough* The -600 would be a great replacement for the 742, and probably for some of the -400s as well. I wouldn't be suprised to see them use the -500 for some routes, but the -600 does seeem most likely as it can easily act as a dircet replacement for the current fleet. That being said, don't be looking for new orders soon. NW isn't always in a hurry to replace old metal.

Delt already has the 777. 'nough said.
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hkg82
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 3:31 am

NW is most likely as they are going to operate the 333 starting from June. But they probably won't consider 742/744 replacement for a long time to come.

Hkg82.
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 3:36 am

I can see NW having the 340s in their fleet. It seems to me they want a 50/50 mix of Airbus & Boeing. Delta, on the other, will not have quads again. Their last 4-engined jetliner was the DC-8-71s. IMO, Delta will stay all twin-engined Boeings. Regards.
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EA CO AS
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 3:41 am

Echoing the previous replies, NW is a possibility as an A-340 customer...but given their penchant for older, paid-off airframes, the 742 fleet may stick around for quite awhile.

DL, however, will purchase from Airbus about the same time that you see airborne pigs swooping along the frozen landscape of Hell.  Big grin
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
donder10
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 4:20 am

DL chances are less than 10% IMO.
NW is prob around 70% in the long-run although their 742s are still relatively young and they are known to be particularly frugal.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 4:57 am

NW probably will, assuming PW creates an engine for it (no exclusivity contract with RR)

Why on EARTH would DL want to fly that ridiculous aircraft when it already operates 777s and could easily order a 772LR? (despite the engine difference, which I dont think would bother it... considering the 767s)
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gigneil
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 5:44 am

They might want their aircraft delivered before 2005, first off, and secondly they wouldn't want an aircraft with an uncertain future.

But, I agree... DL will definitely go for the 772 first.

AA is a different matter. Their exclusivity contract with Boeing only covers craft up to the MTOW of the 772ER. If they suddenly did develop a need to fly from DFW to the other side of the world, who knows what they'd buy? They have a big hard on for RR now...

N
 
Guest

RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 5:51 am

I would love to see a RR Trent 500 powered A340-500/600 in AA colors!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 6:05 am

They might want their aircraft delivered before 2005
No they wouldnt... they're not even taking many of the deliveries that they already had planned BEFORE for 2003-2004!

They have a big hard on for RR now
Yes, they do. Ditto CX.

I would love to see a RR Trent 500 powered A340-500/600 in AA colors

I definitely would not. That... and AA's ultimate goal is to simplify their fleet down to 737, S80, 757/767, and 777. Why on earth would they add a 5th type when the 772LR can outperform it (i.e., based on range)? Airframe/Pilot/parts compatibility seems to make a lot more sense than engine compatibility alone.
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gigneil
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW O

Wed Jan 08, 2003 6:36 am

I agree, it wouldn't make sense to add yet another type.

N
 
ba319-131
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 6:41 am

NW is the best,perhaps only chance,for an A340 on the US register.

I think RR has a contract with Airbus which will only permit Airbus to offer the A340-500/600 with RR engines for a number of years.Once that time is up they are free to offer other engine types.

Stick some P&W units on it and NW may well be interested as a 742/744 replacement.

Who knows...lets wait and hope.

Rgds

BA319-131
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
A388
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 7:18 am

With the current regulations regarding noise, isn't NW "forced" to replace its 742 fleet? Like other noisy aircraft (727, DC-10, L-10, A300 etc) the 742 will be due for replacement because of noise restrictions, right? Is their a hushkit available for the Classic 747's? I heard the MD80 aircraft family will have a hushkit available soon, is that correct?

Regards A388
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 7:32 am

AA is a different matter. Their exclusivity contract with Boeing only covers craft up to the MTOW of the 772ER. If they suddenly did develop a need to fly from DFW to the other side of the world, who knows what they'd buy? They have a big hard on for RR now...

Airframe commonality is far more valuable than engine commonality. Given the success of the 777 family, I'm sure it's safe to say that both Delta and American, should they see fit to order an ultra long haul aircraft, would likely opt for the 777-200LR over the A340-500.

But the question is how badly they want something like that. Both American and Delta were very interested in the 777X program, yet their interest faded away when the GE90-115B was selected as the exclusive powerplant.

Delta took another look at the 777-200LR in mid 2001, and their interest again faded away the morning of September 11, 2001.

So the question is whether they can justify that kind of expenditure. The longest routes I see Delta flying at any forseeable point in the future would be ATL-NRT, and possibly JFK to the Middle East and/or India nonstop. The 777s Delta presently has can carry a full load on all of the above, given typical mission rules. The only holdup is crew rest facility issues.

I think AA is about "Triple Sevened" out, and DL will get plenty more in the pipeline once the financial side of the house has been straightened out. I think whatever chances the 772LR may have had with either of the two carriers were essentially wiped out by 9/11/01.

The only exception to that, however, is that if United is unable to emerge from bankruptcy, or ends up jettisoning their Asia-Pacific division, one of these two carriers will be the beneficiary, and suddenly the 772LR comes under scrutiny again.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:01 am

I always thought the L1011 is pretty quiet considering the age of it... Eastern's "Whisperliner"
I would love to see an AA A340, but in all honesty, it would look ugly.
Go big or go home
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:33 am

YAY, we found a creative way to talk about what will NW replace their 747-200s with!!  Nuts

Anyone want to start the weekly what is replacing Northwest's DC-9 topic?
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:46 am

I could see the 772LR in service with DL at some [distant] future time.... particularly if it fails to secure a viable partnership with a SE Asian carrier (CI? Dont make me laugh!)

That way, they could serve SE Asia from ATL if they chose, without having to go through another westcoast gateway fiasco.
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gkirk
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:49 am

NW will order A340s Im sure  Smile
AA will not  Sad
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Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 9:08 am

NW is more likely to order A345/A346's than Delta for the obvious reasons stated above. Plus i think DL has a pact with boeing permitting them to only buying boeings for the foreseable future.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
aamd11
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 9:22 am

Anyone want to start the weekly what is replacing Northwest's DC-9 topic?

Yes... let's see... anyone wanna bet $50 that NW keeps its DC-9s until 2012?

717 perhaps? well, i dont know...
A318 maybe?? well, not many airlines seem to place 318 orders and keep em... so no...
ROFL
i'll stop now  Wink/being sarcastic

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gigneil
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW O

Wed Jan 08, 2003 9:49 am

Arsenal:

DL's pact with Boeing is just like AA's - it only applies to aircraft up to the MTOW of the heaviest 772ER.

Anything bigger is fair game.

N
 
ContinentalFan
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW O

Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:54 am

I thought that DL/AA/CO's pacts with Boeing weren't even formal agreements after Airbus complained to the WTO (?), but more of the 'wink-wink-nudge-nudge' kind of unwritten/informal/handshake deal.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:54 am

I think NW's chances of buy the A340-600 really depends on what happens to UA from the bankruptcy proceedings.

If UA does have to sell its NRT rights expect NW to snap up a lot of 747-400's from UA's fleet and that will very likely end the idea of NW getting the A346. However, if UA is allowed to keep its NRT hub NW may seriously look at getting the A346 after 2006 as replacements for NW's older 747-200's.
 
gigneil
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW O

Wed Jan 08, 2003 4:48 pm

Or if someone else gets the UA NRT hub, NW might not need the capacity of all those extra 744s.

Who knows. NW may still be flying DC-9s and 742s by the time I die.

N
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:35 pm

That's interesting gigneil, never knew that.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
qatarairways
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:32 am

Is NW going to put a type completely out of consideration just because of engine type?

I mean look at the DC-10-30's in the fleet they are GE powered. Same with the A319/A320 they could of chosen IAE which PW is a major participant instead they chose the CFM's.

A similar situation is CX and RR but they chose CFM56 powered A340's.
 
Guest

RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Thu Jan 09, 2003 3:49 am

The NW GE CF6 powered DC-10-30s are used aircraft that use to belong to Swissair and VARIG. There were only 40 or so P&W JT9D powered DC-10-40s produced that were ordered by NW and JAL.
 
ba319-131
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Thu Jan 09, 2003 5:23 am

When CX decided to buy A343's there was no engine choice,as it still stands today.

Rgds

BA319-131
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
JAL
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Thu Jan 09, 2003 5:57 am

NW could order the A340-500 but Delta or AA will likely order the 777-200LR for the sake of fleet commonality.
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
747-451
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Thu Jan 09, 2003 6:31 am

Tedski,

The DC-10-30's were also obtained from Japan Air system, Korean Air as well.

NW,

Doubtful they will do any replacing of classic large aircraft (742) since they are young, paid for and low hour'ed. Out of the question replacing 747-400's since they are very young. It is doubt ful that the DC-9's will be replaced with 717's and will be replaced with A318's to maintain commonality. For the short term, the Boeings in NW fleet will stand "pat" for quite a while(742, 744) and it is doubtful NW will every buy Boeing's ever again since they are such a "dedicated" Airbus operator...Northwest also appears to be sour on the 757-300 and will probably puchase what ever Airbus equivilent after their purchase obligation for 757's is satisfied...

DL,

Delta will stick with Boeing stuff. They inherited several Airbuses when they "aquired" (or "raped" depending on who you speak too) and kept the 310's for a short while. They were dissatisfied with their performace and poor customer support from Airbus.

American,

Sticking with Boeing. Unknown feelings from them about Airbus sine the A300 crash.

United;

Will NOT sell their Asia Pacific system--they will not make the same mistakes that Pan Am did. United will not purchase A340's since they do not need the additional aircraft. United will probably stick with Airbus for A320's only since they are the only good legacy left to them by wretched Airbus Whore Wolf.

 
Spence
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Thu Jan 09, 2003 6:58 am

Northwest is sour on the 753? Why?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Thu Jan 09, 2003 8:31 am

Lets make some comments here......

In the case of all 3 ---- it is highly, highly doubtful you will see the A340. I'm not going to say ever, because stanger things have happened. Besides the current financial state which we all are aware of, adding the A340 goes against all the principles of what the airlines are all currently striving for.....fleet commonality, simplification of operations, interchangibility.........all of which result it LOWER COSTS! The airlines have realized they don't need to be everything to everyone and that they don't need 12-14 different aircraft types anymore. With fewer types of aircraft, operations are much simplier as it is easier to substitute aircraft and crews during inregular operations, reduced parts inventory, reduced amount of tooling, and reduced amount of crew and mx training. Airlines also release it doesn't make economic sense to operate a small fleet type. For a large airline of 300+ aircraft it doesn't make sense to operate only 5-10 aircraft of one type.

AA: No routes in their system justify an A340. Multiple 777's work better. They are tight with Boeing currently and also only going to be operating twins.
Not to mention the financial situation. The whole A300 thing is basically water under the bridge. The only reason AA went to Airbus back in the late '80s/early '90s was to show Boeing & McD they were not the sole aircraft makers. Airbus was struggling to make inroads into the North American market and offered AA a sweetheart deal. The A300's are fine, but they are a carryover from the Crandell era. No more Airbus for AA.

DL: Again, nope. No justification for them.

NW: Not likely. It would go against fleet simplification. 742's are young, and when the time comes they won't need anything between the A330 and 744. And for the last time, they are not going all Boeing. They are satisfied with their Boeing products. The 752's are a huge moneymaker for NW. They are also satisfied with the 753's. There were some problems early on since NW's 753's where the first with PW engines, but PW & Boeing worked out a solution. It is likely that in better times NW will continue to order more 752/3's and of course 744's.
 
ba319-131
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Thu Jan 09, 2003 3:55 pm

747-451,

Whilst Delta did inherit A310's from Pan Am,they did also buy 'new' frames direct from Airbus.

If they were that unhappy they would never have bought them in the first place.Thought,i must admit,in terms of fleet planning it made no sense at all!!.

Not a surprise they were sold off a few years later.

Rgds

BA319-131
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
jlb
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Thu Jan 09, 2003 5:03 pm

Quote:

"DL, however, will purchase from Airbus about the same time that you see airborne pigs swooping along the frozen landscape of Hell."

Well SAS does fly Boeing 736 around Scandinavia in the winter. That's pretty close to your scenario...
 
gigneil
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW O

Thu Jan 09, 2003 5:12 pm

I'd be sour too, if I had to deboard from the last row on a 753.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

N
 
ha763
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW Or DL

Thu Jan 09, 2003 6:32 pm

Has anyone here ever flown on a 753? I flew one with CO and my seat was about 4 rows from the back and it was about 97% full. I waited till almost all of the passengers deplaned before I even moved and it was comparable to the time it took me to deplane off of a CO 764 that was about 70% full. Please remember the 753 seats almost the same amount as the 764.

Back to the topic, NW is the most likely to get any A340's. Everyone else would be no.
 
gigneil
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RE: Is There Any Chances To See A340-500 With NW O

Thu Jan 09, 2003 6:36 pm

I'm actually surprised that DL hasn't been all over the 753 like white on rice.... they were using the 757 for a long time to replace outgoing 727s and are basically the poster child for 752 operations.

N

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