gmonney
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Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 5:46 am

As you are all aware the Current Fleet of L-1011's are getting older and older by the minute. My recent ride on C-FTSW a -500 series led me to believe these birds are extremely old. I was talking to the pilots and they informed me that they were going to be getting rid of these aircrafts and they didn't mention what was going to replace them. Does anyone have any ideas or does anyone know what will be replacing them?

As well, they are phasing out the 757's. Could they be adding more A310's? or even A330's.

What is the long term goal for TS. Its seems with the current aircraft fleet, domestic runs will have to sell out in order to be profitable. I know for a fact that our flight to MCO on the friday before Christmas was 80 shy of a full load. To me thats unusual, when its a peek time to travel.

And Captiangomes.....don't tell me about the 777 untill its on paper please?

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 6:17 am

HEHEHE Yeah Nuno why do you make things like that up all the time??? HEHE Well its not on paper, but a nubmer of different people in the company have said that it had been offered...and could be in the works....
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
SafeFlyer
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:07 am

The load of 80 people surprise me very much, especially on a charter airline like TS.
Altough the -500 series might look old, the oldest bird was built in 1982 and so, is celebrating is 21st birthday this year. 2 or 3 of them have been built in 1984 and are in fact, younger than some of AC's B762.

There was a discussion lately based on pure speculation that they might get 763 and 777. But they've switch to Airbus. Why would they switch again and after a such short period?
I just hope they won't get...... I let you guess....... (Answ:A320s)  Innocent
 
Vref
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:17 am

The only thing I have heard about their fleet is that they were going to be either all Boeing or all Airbus.
I think they were leaning toward Boeing, but that was over a month ago.
Remember! She will fly over gross but not out of gas!
 
fpdonald
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:18 am

SafeFlyer, I think you misread . . . the load was shy of 80 which in American English means there were empty 80 seats.  Smile
 
fpdonald
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:24 am

I'm really not surprised that there were empty seats on an L1011 coming "to" Orlando for Christmas Day. More people leave Orlando to spend Christmas elsewhere in the US (and Canada) than actually vacation here. Tradition, I guess. December 26 is the day that people usually head down here, and mayhem takes over . . . or at least long lines.

Busiest still is Easter.

34F is tonight's supposed low . . . dang that Jet Stream!
 
gkirk
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:43 am

I would say, and maybe hope, that they order more A310 and A330s  Smile
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
hmmmm...
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 9:42 am

Quite often Christmas Eve flights, like New Year's Eve flights, do not totally sell out. 80 shy on an L-1011, in Air Transat seating, means that the plane's seats were all filled up, but there was still some room in the overhead bins, the aisles, and the lavatories.

Those planes may be old, but they are still perfectly airworthy. And they are paid for. That's why they keep them. They may burn more gas, and cost more to maintain, but considering they are, otherwise, free, they still end up being a sensible solution for a low-fare charter company like Air Transat.

On a similar note, the USAF still flies the B-52 bomber 50 years after the model entered service. The youngest B-52 in the fleet came off the assembly line in 1962. Yet, amazingly, the USAF plans to keep those newer B-52s flying for an additional 38 years. They do not plan on retiring them until the year 2041. By that time, it would not shock me to learn that the B-52 was to be replaced with the L-1011!
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 9:59 am

I read somewhere recently that TS is evaluating fleet plans with a goal of operating a more uniform fleet...ie, all Boeing or all Airbus. It appears that both are in the running although it would seem that Airbus would have the edge with TS adding 330/310 equipment while removing 752 equipment.

The TS L15 fleet is not that old....they average about 20 years each....quite suitable for a low-yield charter carrier.

Personally, I think a mixed 752/753/763 fleet would be a better mix than a more expensive 320/332/333 fleet.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
lymanm
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:13 am

I think that perhaps they should consider the VC-10. With 4 engines, they don't have to worry about ETOPs. I'm sure there are plenty of airframes available at a fraction of what A330s go for now. Plus, there would be a glut of pilots with previous VC-10 experience available; consider how many unemployed Brit pilots inhabit PPRUNE.com

That's what I say.
buhh bye
 
fpdonald
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:40 am

If it's true that the 757 is being phased out, then an all Airbus future seems most likely. I'm thinking winter/summer wet leasing too.
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:40 am

Hehehehe Lymanm, have to take care of all the unemployed Canadian pilots first!!! Besides I hear the VC-10 glides like a brick, SO far I hear Airbus and Boeing are both neck in neck as both have proven to transat that they can Glide well, and I hear that is one of the leading decision making factors for their fleet plans  Smile  Smile  Smile
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
dripstick
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:53 am

"...then an all Airbus future seems most likely."

Great more plastic overhead in Canada, eh.  Big thumbs up

My vote is for an ALL-B74SP fleet.

That's what I say.

Dripstick
What's another word for thesaurus?
 
fpdonald
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:07 am

Dripstick:

There's a "lovely" ex Quantas one on bricks in the desert! Perhaps they can piece together two more?

 Smile
 
Dash8King
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:13 am

SO far I hear Airbus and Boeing are both neck in neck as both have proven to transat that they can Glide well, and I hear that is one of the leading decision making factors for their fleet plans

LOL Slawko!
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:49 am

The 757's might be phased out, but that doesn't mean they can't get newer ones! The A310's are new to the fleet, but TS is very unhappy with them. The likely thing to happen is Transat getting rid of the A310's, and FedEx is interested in them anyways. I heard they are evaluating different aircraft types, including the 757, 767, and 777 from Boeing, as well as different Airbus models. They have the advantage of currently operating the A330, and having just received another one it would seem logical to focus on an all Airbus fleet. However things have changed in the past year substantially, and deals can now be found on aircraft such as the 777.

Only time will tell, but I'm hoping the L1011 will stay for a few more years!
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
spyderz
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:54 am

I think Airbus has a major advantage in this order not only due to the large amounts of Airbus products Air Transat already flies, but also the fact that the 330 could support most of Transat's operations. A mix of -200's and 300's could fly their large southern routes and be the perfect aircraft for Transat's expanding European operations. Some 320's would fit nicely on the thiner southern routes. Boeing alternatives of 757's, 767's, and possibly 777's just don't make as much sense for the airline. The 757 is a great and versatile aircraft, but I see it being too large for the airline on the thinner routes, and the 767's I feel don't have the capacity for many of Transat's European network. As for 777's, I just don't see them since they'll probably be too expensive for the airline compared to 330's.

On a side note, I saw on television an interview with Transat's boss in charge of Western operations that stated the airline might be interested in expanding into Asian operations in 3-5 years time. If the airline was serious about this, this factor could play a role in their fleet roll-over.
 
fpdonald
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:56 am

Only time will tell, but I'm hoping the L1011 will stay for a few more years!

I agree, it's getting to be a rare treat seeing the old gal in Orlando. With ATA down to five by the end of the year, and an infrequent visitor to MCO, it's getting to be a wide bodied Boeing haven!

Still, the L1011s are heading for major maintenance over the next few years. So sad.
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:06 pm

Spyderz, from what I read (I forget where right now) the A330 is not that good for southern destinations. It is very large, plus it takes a long time to turn around, compared to a 757 or 767 for example. If TS decided to go all Airbus, they'd have the large capacity of the A330, then the low capacity of the A32X, with a big gap in between. Remember, the A310 might fill in that gap, but they've shown that they're not interested in the A310 anymore.

With Boeing, they could really have the 757 for the thinner routes, 767 for new routes across the Atlantic with lower passenger numbers, and also high capacity southern destinations. The 777 would of course be the large capacity aircraft used on the more popular routes. Transat had done well in the past without an aircraft in the A320 capacity, but of course even if they went all Boeing, they could easily go for the 737NG.

I'm very interested to see what develops in the next year at Transat!
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
AF-A319
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:12 pm

Here are the last Transat insiders's news:

The airline is currently in the process of negociating a new contract with its cabin crews. Nothing concerning the fleet change will be announced before the 2 sides come to an agreement.

According to my source, the L1011 will leave soon. Three ex VG Airlines A330s are currently parked at Dorval, and would be waiting for the agreement between TS and its employees before taking off to Mirabel and fly under the Transat flag.

More info to come

AF-A319 @ YUL.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:13 pm

aren't most of their "southern" flights (what are these? SFB, LAS, PVR, MUCC) flown with either A310s or A330s? I never see 752s on these runs, except maybe from Toronto-Orlando on occasion.
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:16 pm

Hmm...there was an A330 at FLL on Dec. 26...usually the 752 and L-1011 are seen down at FLL...guess they needed extra seats for relatives visiting the Canadian snowbirders...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:37 pm

Clickhappy, the reason you don't see the 757 on southern routes is because they only have 1 or 2 in service at this time. The 757 was mainly used on southern routes when they had them all in service. It still remains an ideal aircraft for this sort of service. If they do go all Boeing, I'm sure they'd consider the 757-300. Given what AF-A319 said however, if he's right, Air Transat is leaning towards Airbus at this time.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:50 pm

well, shameless photo plug here, but I love Air Transat's c/s, it looks great on the A330. This is one of my favorite photos I have ever taken:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Royal S King



Funny, I have never seen an AT 757, but I hope to at YVR soon. AT will make whatever plane(s) they choose look great, I'm sure.
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:11 pm

Username: Fpdonald
Respect Rating: 2
Posted 2003-01-08 03:07:28 and read 87 times.
Dripstick:

There's a "lovely" ex Quantas one on bricks in the desert! Perhaps they can piece together two more?


I saw one on bricks in the desert too... I thought the airline was Qantas though. I could be wrong.  Big grin




 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:43 pm

The TS 752's are used predominantly on YYZ-MCO/PIE/FLL/NAS/YVR.

Hey! What about the apparatus?

I think that perhaps they should consider the VC-10.

It used to make my day when I was a little kid & I saw a British United VC-10 in YYZ on a summer charter! Or occasionally a BOAC VC-10 subbing for a 707!

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
buckfifty
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:54 pm

VC-10? There's a readily available supply of ex-Cubana and Aeroflot IL-62's...
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Thu Jan 09, 2003 9:11 am

I actually read an article on TS today at http://www.thresholdaviation.com and it said that TS is down from 24 aircraft before 9/11 to a current 17. Yes the 757 are getting phased out but where is the commonality with the 330 and the 310??? There is none, but if they do want to go across the pond to Asia, they have to weigh some options, do they want an old A340, and jam it like C3 was going to do to India, or do they go the 772LR (that is in the plans) and have less people with less commitment?

All I know is LETS KEEP GAS IN THE NEW AIRCRAFT THEY GET!!

Grnat
Drive it like you stole it!
 
SafeFlyer
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:31 am

LOL Gmonney.
Just a simple question. Is TS still operating 60 minutes ETOPS or have they got back their 160 or 180-minutes ETOPS since the Azores glider incident?
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Thu Jan 09, 2003 11:21 am

The 330, 752 & L15 are all RR-powered. That's the primary element of commonality.

TS announced that they would hang on to their 2 remaining 752's until fall 2003. The 752 has the lowest seat-mile costs in the TS fleet....I'm still surprized that TS is winding the fleet down.

I think they should stay away from the 343 & 772 until they have simplified their fleet.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:14 pm

What i was getting at neil was the cockpit commonality, see with the A330 and the A310 there are great differances, so by maybe adding A340 for routes that are proven profitable, then they would have a common flight deck for pilots.

Could they replace the 757 with A321's and just have a few A320's to do some domestic and Florida, in non peak times??

Grant

P.S. i know that the A340 will be expensive now and not a good idea, but what do you mean Nuno, about them not wanting anymore A310's. You and i know they are great aircraft....does that mean they will be going Boeing or just loosing that obsolete flightdeck?
Drive it like you stole it!
 
Dash8King
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:19 pm

Could they replace the 757 with A321's

The 321 does not have the range that the 757 does.
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:27 pm

Dash8King, the A321 in fact does not have the range of the 757, but TS hardly uses the 757 to its full range potential, since they don't fly it across the Atlantic anymore.

Grant, I've heard from numerous sources that TS is unhappy with a few aspects of the A310, namely lots of snags and apparantly the fuel burn is not what they projected. I love the A310, but it doesn't seem to age too well.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:36 pm

Ya and the L-1011's are better with the fuel burn....but i guess if you are spending the money on the aircraft then you don't want to spend it on the fuel....

So by this Captiangomes.....looks like it could be a very merry boeing year to come?

Grant

Right i was refering to Northamerican flights with the A321, just having capacity would be great!!

Drive it like you stole it!
 
Fly_ATA
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:49 pm

Fpdonald,


Are you in MCO ?
 
SegmentKing
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:51 pm

The 757 has been a wonderful aircraft for Transat, but they want something smaller... I'm hearing the new plane will be configured below 150 seats.. so that rules out the A320 (162?)... A319 is a possibility.. but then again, they cost $175k/ month for a lease versus $89k for a 737-400. But that's a large step down to a 734 from a 757.

In regards to widebodies, I think we can expect TS to maintain the A330 family...

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:57 pm

Given that they already operate the 332/333, I predict they'll opt for the 320/321 and retain the 313's, while ditching the L15's and 752's. If fleet commonality is that important to them.

Hey -- remember that rumour last year about TS operating an MD-11 in summer 02? Never happened of course, but that would be cool. A Canadian apparatus -11. Mmmmmmm.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:02 am

Just a note on the VG A330-200's...

Aircraft EI-CZT (ex OO-SFS) is in YYZ being re-painted all white...It ferried in Today...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:53 am

Yes, I remember the MD-11 rumours. MMMMMMMMMMM, sexy three holers!  Big grin

Slawko, did you see the VG A330? Is it still in VG colours and is it still visible?
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:59 pm

Crap, i am not out there today.....but where is it parked, still deep inside of the AC hanger?

That 734 is a strong possibility, I am sure that there are a few out there in the market to be picked up!! I just hope that they keep one or two of the L-1011's for back up purpose. I think that is a great idea and i am sure that they have benifited from having spare aircraft at their convience!!

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:38 am

The 734 idea is good, if Transat is going Boeing. I don't know how much money they have at their disposal, but in my opinion part of the reason they have survived this long is that they have a good mix of old and new aircraft. That gives them flexibility. If Transat ended up ordering some new aircraft and getting some used but still good aircraft, it would work out well.

"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:42 am

Just to elaborate on a few points that i forgot about,

I think TS is in a really good position to replace their fleet, or atleast now knowing their market and can base their fleet around theirs and the customers needs. I think that if they have like around 15 reliable aircraft they should do just fine. Having too many will just end up costing them lots of money. As i mentioned before they have shrunk 7 aircraft since 9/11, most of them L-1011-1's. The true test will be the next aircraft in their fleet, that will dictate their intentions and i can't wait to see that happen!

Does TS really have a domestic market or are they still a semi-charter company...i guess with jetsgo, WJ, and of course AC there is no room for domestic.

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
Likesplanes
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Sat Jan 11, 2003 2:05 am

Does Air Transat operate their fleet in an all coach layout, seeing that they are a charter airline? Do they have any business seats at all?

I know that when Canada 3000 was still flying, they crammed 340 seats into their A330-200's! Talk about a sardine can! DoesTransat operate the same way?
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Sat Jan 11, 2003 2:41 am

Likesplanes, the C3 A340 was considered "roomy" for a charter or low cost airline. hahaha. And it did include a business class arrangement. Adding to that, the C3 A340 had 8 seats abreast, while all but one of the Transat A330's and all of their A310's have 9 abreast.

Transat's aircraft are very tightly packed, but they do have Club Transat with wide seats and nice legroom.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Sat Jan 11, 2003 2:42 am

Likesplanes, the C3 A340 was considered "roomy" for a charter or low cost airline. hahaha. And it did include a business class arrangement. Adding to that, the C3 A340 had 8 seats abreast, while all but one of the Transat A330's and all of their A310's have 9 abreast.

Transat's aircraft are very tightly packed, but they do have Club Transat with wide seats and nice legroom.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Sat Jan 11, 2003 10:31 am

I think TS should RETAIN the L15's for another 5-7 years. They're relatively young & from what I understand they still have a reasonable dispatch reliability.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
BWIA330
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Sat Jan 11, 2003 3:10 pm

I read somewhere that Air Canada will be taking over those 3 VG Airlines Airbus A330-200's. Im not sure if this a true of false statement.

Regards,

Glaeson
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:36 pm

By the looks of it, i would have to say if TS is not getting them and I am sure Jetsgo is not, then AC would be the next best customer. I wonder if they are going to send them across the pond our use them on domestic routes, replacing some of the aging 762's, that is where they need more capacity as well.

I am sure that who ever they go to it will be worked out.....ummmm do they have PTV's?

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Sat Jan 11, 2003 6:09 pm

AC's A333's get rotated in and out of domestic/int'l on a daily basis. Air Canada likes the machines a lot, and looking at the number of routes this summer I wouldn't be surprised to see those 3 machines as tails 939, 940 and 941. Makes sense. Interior upholstery is done at YUL. Takes a long time to do those seats. I promise on Tuesday I will pay the hangar a visit by slipping out of Consolidated early on my 5:30AM shift. Trip report to follow.

(OMG, fluorescent green paint cans.... all over the floor.... the horror....)

Grégoire
 
dripstick
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RE: Air Transat.....What Up With Their Fleet?

Sat Jan 11, 2003 11:22 pm

Don't forget your camera Grégoire! Haven't seen anything lately from you.

Still wait on those KLM F/A pics.  Big thumbs up

Dripstick
What's another word for thesaurus?

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