BA
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Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:48 am

Very very interesting:

http://www.flydenver.com/pr/DIAPR_030107.pdf (requires Adobe Acrobat Reader)

This is Denver's way of trying to get more service.  Smile

They're targetting destinations in Canada and Mexico. Smaller incentives will be given to new domestic destinations.

If Frontier starts service to Raleigh-Durham (RDU), they will get incentives for the service.

All I gotta say is money talks.  Smile

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
flyf15
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:08 pm

Somehow, I don't see why my tax money should be used for incentives to private businesses. If the demand is there and great enough, and the airline can make money, they will start flights incentives or not.
 
BA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:33 pm

You have a point Flyf15.

Although for sure there are routes that are feasible but are not served yet which is why they are offering this incentive program.

Lets not forget British Airways and Lufthansa. It took the incentive to lure them in, and it turned out that it was a smart move that they came in because there flights are doing very well.

They may have come at one point or another, but it would have been later.

But you do have a point.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
DIA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:11 pm

Money does talk. Most of these incentives are based soley on making it easier for airlines to start routes to/from DEN. The incentives' costs are incured by DIA/City of Denver and are created to be a part of Colorado's/Denver's regular business annual expenditure. It is basically a built-in economic growth stimulus that we put forth EVERY year to make sure we are covered for any possible new airlines and/or routes that we see viable for both the airline/airlines and Denver/Colorado/DIA to pursue together.

DIA

P.S. Nice work on your updated User Profile BA. You've got a lot of interesting stuff there.

G'nite
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BA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:15 pm

Thanks for the details DIA, I knew I could count on you.  Big grin

P.S. Nice work on your updated User Profile BA. You've got a lot of interesting stuff there.

Thanks DIA, I've been updating it lately.  Smile

One question, what routes is Denver trying to getting other than Paris?

I'm assuming Montreal in Canada, and other Mexican destinations such as Guadalajara.

Asia I've noticed has not been the biggest focus by Denver and I'm a bit surprised.

Although, it might be because of the current economic conditions that make it unfavorable to start any new Asia flights, while Europe, Canada, and Mexico are stronger right now.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
gigneil
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Prog

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:22 pm

Who would be the prime target airline for such a Paris service?

AF or UA? Is UA in any shape for such a route, and I guess if they were they'd have started it by now...

N
 
DIA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:25 pm

Those cities you mentioned above are in the top dozen. The city list is ALWAYS changing and sometimes we know as much as you do. This is the case right now. The DBJ seems to be the best in terms of staying top of things, and I've noticed, so are you. I learn about things from you before we get wind of it! That's why I'm always encouraging you to keep up the good work/research!

YOU are one of my important sources on what the latest is here in Denver.

Again, keep it up, DIA

P.S. Denver has not given up on Asia. Tokyo work has not stopped. I would say it looks like ANA.

Okay, really...g'nite.  Smile
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gigneil
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Prog

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:28 pm

ANA would make the most sense... they stand to benefit the most of the Japanese carriers, and would increase UA's mainline and regional feed at DEN, which seems to be a good focus.

N
 
BA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:43 pm

Who would be the prime target airline for such a Paris service?

Air France is the target and the preferred carrier.

United has clearly shown that it is not interested in starting an Europe service with the exception of LHR. As for Asia, lately I've heard from a couple that if United gets in better shapes, they will add DEN-NRT in about 2 years. I was a little bit surprised, but from what I've heard DEN makes sense as an alternative for Asia connections. Mainly because SFO and LAX service levels are quite high while ORD and IAD seem to be handling the Europe traffic well enough.

YOU are one of my important sources on what the latest is here in Denver.

Thank you, I really appreciate that.  Smile

ANA would make the most sense... they stand to benefit the most of the Japanese carriers, and would increase UA's mainline and regional feed at DEN, which seems to be a good focus.

Believe it or not, JAL was the first airline to bring up the idea of launching DEN service. Originally the plan was to start 3x weekly service on a 744, but with a stop in LAX. I'm assuming they would have taken there existin NRT-LAX service, and extended the route to DEN.

However, I think they realized they wouldn't stand a chance to United's connections. There isn't much benefit of one-stop flights when you can connect for even cheaper. That's one of the reasons why Korean Air failed in Denver. IF, the flight operated non-stop, it may have been successful.

Oh well what's done is done.

Lately (the past year or so), ANA has become interest. Probably because JAL became interested and they want to beat them to it.

Isn't competition great?  Smile

Brings out the good in airlines  Smile

If UA doesn't start NRT-DEN service first, you can count that it would be on ANA. Although I've heardt he earliest Denver will see NRT service is around January 2005 because of the poor economic conditions which have greatly impacted Asia - North America relations more so than Europe - North America relations.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
gigneil
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Prog

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:51 pm

It'll be quite exciting. That will of course mean UA offers service, either mainline or codeshare, from each of their 5 main hubs, and Kennedy too.

Even IAD.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

I almost got an account whilst I lived in DC that would have required monthly Tokyo trips... I shuddered to think I'd have to fly on ANA with no hope for an upgrade.

Would have been worth it to fly up to JFK or over to ORD first.

N
 
BA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Thu Jan 09, 2003 9:24 am

One day after the incentive program is announced, a new carrier announces service to Denver.

So.....do you think the incentive program is working?  Smile

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
vafi88
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:39 am

What airline would that be BA???

Thanks for the info, although I would like to see Korean Air come back...
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
BA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:43 am

Vafi88,

Didn't you see the 2 Air Tran posts?

Air Tran starts flying to Denver in May with 2 daily flights from Atlanta.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
DIA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Thu Jan 09, 2003 1:54 pm

Well, I know I can keep a secret now. Wink/being sarcastic Although I guess I did give you a subtle hint of what's to come by using the DBJ as a good source of local airline news. . .which I noticed you mentioned and gave a link to, in one of the Airtran postings tonight. . .good job. I too am looking forward to some 717 service.

Yes, Airtran in Denver. . .that is good.

Cheers, DIA
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BA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Thu Jan 09, 2003 1:57 pm

So, what's next in the pipeline?

 Smile

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
DIA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:10 pm

I wouldn't have a job if I were constantly leaking info. . .but I will try my best to keep up with giving subtle hints at what is possibly to come. I am not on airliners.net every day, as I know a lot of users are. I seem to come and go in spurts. I will try though. Most importantly, I think your research is just fine. You are the official Denver Airline News Announcer. Again, I constantly check YOUR posts for things that slipped past me.

Cheers, DIA

P.S. No news is sometimes good news  Big grin

G'nite
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
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mariner
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Prog

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:11 pm

BA:

There's a strong rumor that F9 will be (or has been) approved for it's SNA service, but I don't think that is covered by the incentive program.

For myself, I'd like to see F9 add some routes that no one else flies, such as Denver to Monterrey and Veracruz, both in Mexico, and Denver to Montreal.

F9 said today that they're pleased with the response to Cancun and Mazatlan, but I'd like them to have a couple of business destinations in Mexico as well as resorts.

And they've said they'd like to fly to Canada - well, there's no non-stop service from anywhere west of the Big River to Montreal.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
vafi88
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:12 pm

Now, I feel stupid missing those 2 posts just says a lot about me....great news though!
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
BA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:12 pm

I know DIA. I was just joking.  Smile

P.S. No news is sometimes good news

Very true.  Smile

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
flyyul
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:19 pm

Dear DIA,

Is Montreal anywhere on the list of top cities?

Mark
 
BA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:20 pm

Mariner,

Yes, Frontier will start SNA service in April. No official announcement yet, but they were doing noise tests with there A319s recently.

They will have 2 daily flights.

Hopefully we'll see Frontier add more Mexico destinations. I'd like to see Los Cabos and Puerto Vallarta.

By the way, it looks like Mexicana is dropping the 1x weekly Zacatecas service again.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:22 pm

I was waiting for you to ask that FLYYUL....  Smile

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
MAH4546
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:26 pm

In my opinion, Denver will see Tokyo service in the next 3-5 years, but not on ANA. ANA has began cutting back on long-haul services lately. They have already cut Chicago O'Hare. Now they are transferring Osaka-Honolulu to UAL, and word is they are strongly considering transferring Dulles-Nartia to UAL too. The US market is definitley not thier strong point right now. While I have no doubts an ANA DEN-NRT service would work, I don't think ANA's plans for the future include an expanded US network. I think DEN-NRT would be best served by UAL with a daily 777-200, or JAL with a 3x weekly 747-400.
a.
 
gigneil
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Prog

Thu Jan 09, 2003 3:33 pm

They're transferring those routes to UA to help them build on their already strong Pacific network.

Its a method of helping UA out.

JAL would have little, if any, feed from their partners at DEN.

ANA would have the power of UA's second most prolific hub.

Maybe UA would fly it, maybe not.... but it would probably be one of the two.

N
 
BA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Fri Jan 10, 2003 7:38 am

MAH4546,

Yes, you are right that ANA has been cutting back over the years.

However, when I recently contacted Denver Airport, I got a reply from the Deputy Manager of Aviation and she told me that so far, everything is leading to ANA.

Most likely ANA, but there are other possibilities. JAL is one of them. And if UA improves itself, they could be the ones to operate the route.

Those are really the only 3 options.

If you ask me, it could be any of the 3.

Because JAL was the first airline to spark an interest in Denver service and that was 3 years ago before. Back then, ANA was saying that Denver cannot support a flight to NRT, but recently that's changed. Possibly because of JAL's response, but also possibly because they further reviewed the market.

Most likely it would be a 3x weekly service. Daily may be a bit too much.

In the summer however, it could operate as a daily service.

Colorado is a BIG destination for Japanese.

There is a good chance that they would use the 747-400 to Denver, not because of passenger loads, but because of cargo. The 747-400 has higher cargo capacity than the 777-200.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
donder10
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:17 am

The 747-400 has higher cargo capacity than the 777-200.

How close are these to being equal?
 
BA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:40 am

Donder10,

777-200ER - 5,302cuft.
747-400 - 6,025cuft.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:44 am

Incase you were curious, the 777-300 has 7,080cuft. of cargo space.

The 777-300ER under development will have the same cargo space capacity, but increased range. That should be a big plus for carriers.

Cargo is a BIG source of revenue for airlines.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
DIA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:02 pm

FLYYUL: Yes, Montreal is, but that is certainly no promise of any service soon. Load factors have yet to be determined.

About ANA: Yes, they are the front-runner, not JAL. Look for future service, hopefully at least three times weekly. . .probably 777. Cargo loads from DEN to Japan are definately not like LAX, SFO, or even SEA, therefore the 744 may still be too much to start with. As loads increase (pax and cargo) look for a mix of 772s and 773s and an occasional 744, depending on demand and season. I can tell you that the UAL feed plays a large part with this possible future route.

That is all I have on that. Don't ask me when they could possibly start service, I don't know. As everyone knows, these are tuff times in a cutthroat business.

Remember, DIA/Denver would serve every city in the U.S. if there was money to be made, and airlines to contract for them, and if the federal government would allow such a thing.

DIA

P.S. Somewhere in this huge forum, somebody mentioned that Asiana might start service from Seoul to Denver due to their inception into the Star Alliance this month. This rumor has no leg to stand on. There is no such thing in the works. I'm sure there are plenty of other cities in the world that Asiana would look at strating service to WAY before they even consider Denver. Lest we forget, Korean Air couldn't survive here, even with a 744Combi.

G'nite
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BA
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:42 pm

DIA,

Part of the reason why Korean Air failed in Denver was because the flight was not non-stop. There is not much benefit of taking a one-stop flight when one can make a connection for possibly cheaper.

The Korean Air flight lasted as long as it did because of cargo. They were carrying huge loads of cargo to Denver. I even saw it with my own eyes whiel they were unloading the cargo from the back of the Combi.

As Korean Air started to run into financial trouble and economic problems in Korea were rising, they were forced to drop the Denver flight among other cuts.

There was a rumor a while ago that Korean Air wants to return to Denver. But, again it's probably just that. A rumor.

I haven't heard anything since so it probably wasn't true.

I didn't hear anything about Asiana. I too would be surprised if Asiana came to Denver this soon. If United's positition strengthens, then maybe in 5 years or so after Asiana has added some other markets first, then we may see them add Denver. But that is far off and not likely if you ask me.

ANA or UA most likely will be the operators of NRT-DEN. Hopefully one day. I was told probably sometime in 2005.

That'll be a good year, right when the Convention Center expansion is done.  Smile

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
donder10
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RE: Denver Announces 2003 Marketing Incentive Program!

Sat Jan 11, 2003 10:01 am

Cargo is a BIG source of revenue for airlines.

Especially Asian ones being large export-driven economies.Surprised KE flew a 744M into DEN ,but given this then the 772ER returning is unlikely.
I really am looking forward to the 773ER in Europe-I seriously wonder if BA will look at it down the path?