Flyer732
Topic Author
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 6:09 am

New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:07 am

Denver here we come!

http://www.airtran.com/aboutus/news/denverco.jsp
 
717fan
Posts: 1977
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 10:51 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:23 am

Good to see that Airtran is expanding and expanding....they really need more 717's. No question which airline I will use when I am next in the US, can't wait....
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 1:18 am

THANK GOD. I am so sick of the eastern and central time zones....

Travis
 
atcboy73
Posts: 1084
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2001 10:09 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:20 am

Awesome news

Id love to see MCI-DEN service! Lord knows MCI has the gates to support the service.

 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1431
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:20 am

AirTran to launch service
Low-fare carrier plans Denver-Atlanta daily nonstop flights

By Heather Draper, Rocky Mountain News
January 8, 2003

Denver travelers will have another low-fare choice beginning in May.

AirTran Airways, the second-largest low-fare airline behind Southwest, will launch twice daily nonstop service from Denver to its Atlanta hub May 21.

The Denver-Atlanta fares start at $114 one way.

All Denver flights will operate on new Boeing 717, 100-seat aircraft, featuring fresh air circulated throughout the cabin, the company said.

"Our new service to Denver significantly expands AirTran Airways' network to the West, offering our passengers a new option in affordable travel," said Kevin Healy, AirTran vice president.

Unlike most budget carriers, AirTran offers a business class, which is only slightly more expensive than coach, said spokesman Tad Hutcheson.

Denver-based budget carrier Frontier Airlines also flies to Atlanta but Vice President Elise Eberwein said the airline welcomes the competition.

"We've been expecting it," she said. "More choice is good for the customer, even though it is a little bit different product."

Orlando, Fla.-based AirTran, the subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, which was formerly known as ValuJet, operates 404 flights a day to 40 destinations.

ValuJet nearly went bankrupt after the Federal Aviation Administration shut it down for 15 weeks in 1996 while it investigated a ValuJet DC-9 crash in the Florida Everglades.

AirTran had profits of $6.28 million in the first half of 2002, following three straight unprofitable quarters.

-from the Rocky Mountain News

My question is...what concourse are they going to fit in? Isn't there one open gate in the C concourse where Vanguard used to be or was eaten up by another airline? Good news for DEN and AirTran (still would like to have seen COS though).

Ry
 
727LOVER
Posts: 6795
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:32 am

Now that they'll be connecting ATL with DEN, do you think they'll eventually hub DEN? Do you think Aitran & Frontier can compete together comfortably?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4114
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:43 am

Could it be? Could it really really be? A NEW city without the need of a travel bank? LOL
 
jrlander
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:45 am

The ATL-DEN market is a connecting market. ATL and DEN each have two hubs, one a major carrier and one a so-called low-fare carrier. The service for all airlines on the route depends on connecting traffic either at ATL and DEN. Airtran's market will be serving DEN with connecting traffic from its destinations around the Southeast. Frontier's market is serving ATL from destinations in the west, connecting through their DEN hub. They have different reasons for serving the route, so I assume that both will do well.
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3903
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:45 am

Hmmm...I doubt that AirTran would begin a Denver hub, at least for awhile. Frontier's CASM is low enough that the two would be low-fare competitors, and Frontier's the hometown airline. Even if FL considered a focus city, most of the likely focus spokes are covered by Frontier--DFW, MCI, Houston, Chicago. Flights to Atlanta, which offer connections to all those FL spoke cities that don't have Frontier, are probably the best bet.

AirTran would do well to move west, though, and become less dependent upon the Northeast-Florida corridor. DL is out for blood with their "Song" predatory low-cost unit, and FL would do well to build up elsewhere. A hub in the Midwest would probably be the best profit bet, as that region has the least low-fare service of any part of the country.

I'm not sure where; MDW has two low-fare hubs already; STL has a huge WN presence, and MSP wouldn't get out of bed with Northwest long enough to open a gate or two beyond what FL has now just to run their ATL flights. DTW maybe, but that's kind of far east, and maybe too close to BWI.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3903
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 3:34 am

Could it be? Could it really really be? A NEW city without the need of a travel bank? LOL

That's funny, neither ROC, MKE, nor PBI needed a travel bank. I don't know how MKE and PBI are doing, but AirTran's Rochester station is going gangbusters.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4114
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 4:09 am

Hmmm...ROC had a travel bank setup. MKE or PBI didn't really require one due to their size and market. AirTran is going to be in MKE regardless now with at least RJs just for mx positioning (like RenoAir did with OKC and its 2 daily flights to LAS).
 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:05 pm

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 4:27 am

On a side note, AirTran just began DAILY (From 1x weekly) FNT-MCO service.
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3903
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 5:34 am

Hmmm...ROC had a travel bank setup. MKE or PBI didn't really require one due to their size and market. AirTran is going to be in MKE regardless now with at least RJs just for mx positioning (like RenoAir did with OKC and its 2 daily flights to LAS).

Actually, we didn't. According to Aviation Week, ROC is not one of the five markets in the US that have used them (EUG-HP, EUG-Horizon, ICT-FL, PNS-FL, STO-HP). Companies in Rochester agreed to spend a certain amount on travel with FL, but we did not set up a formal bank account with a withdrawal-card system. FL loads at ROC have obviously exceeded any informal agreements, since we began with 4 dailies, are up to 6, and will go to 7 in March.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
fsuwxman
Posts: 435
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2002 3:57 pm

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 5:40 am

FL's ATL- TLH and TPA- TLH service has a travel bank doesn't it? Is it the same as having the State of Florida subsidizing the routes.
ASOS... Another Shi#y Observation Station
 
SWA TPA
Posts: 1454
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 6:10 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 6:14 am

Noticed today they had a RJ in TPA this morning. Anybody know if this is a daily thing now or just a sub for something. Also where is the route for this one?
I believe I can fly.....
 
Guest

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 6:21 am

SWA TPA: The route is the TLH-TPA-MIA runs. It is slowly getting replaced with RJs.
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 6:33 am

Of the five TPA-TLH daily nonstops, 4 are JetConnect, 1 is mainline. Of the five TPA-MIA daily nonstops, 3 are JetConnect, 2 are mainline.

(Of the two mainline MIA-TPA flts, one continues to PHL, one continues to MKE).

Travis
 
BA
Posts: 10166
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 8:00 am

As I said in the other post, I don't think AirTran will establish a hub in Denver. They might add a couple more routes in the future (1 or 2 more routes), but that's all I can see.

Good luck AirTran and welcome to the Mile High City.



Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 8:16 am

Personally, I can't wait....especially since I grew up just south of DRO.....

Travis
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 8:44 am

YES!!!!!!!!!! Denver will be seeing me soon.

AirTran to launch service
Low-fare carrier plans Denver-Atlanta daily nonstop flights

By Heather Draper, Rocky Mountain News
January 8, 2003

Denver travelers will have another low-fare choice beginning in May.

AirTran Airways, the second-largest low-fare airline behind Southwest, will launch twice daily nonstop service from Denver to its Atlanta hub May 21.

The Denver-Atlanta fares start at $114 one way.

All Denver flights will operate on new Boeing 717, 100-seat aircraft, featuring fresh air circulated throughout the cabin, the company said.

"Our new service to Denver significantly expands AirTran Airways' network to the West, offering our passengers a new option in affordable travel," said Kevin Healy, AirTran vice president.

Unlike most budget carriers, AirTran offers a business class, which is only slightly more expensive than coach, said spokesman Tad Hutcheson.

Denver-based budget carrier Frontier Airlines also flies to Atlanta but Vice President Elise Eberwein said the airline welcomes the competition.

"We've been expecting it," she said. "More choice is good for the customer, even though it is a little bit different product."

Orlando, Fla.-based AirTran, the subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, which was formerly known as ValuJet, operates 404 flights a day to 40 destinations.

ValuJet nearly went bankrupt after the Federal Aviation Administration shut it down for 15 weeks in 1996 while it investigated a ValuJet DC-9 crash in the Florida Everglades.


AirTran had profits of $6.28 million in the first half of 2002, following three straight unprofitable quarters.

-from the Rocky Mountain News


Orlando, Fla.-based AirTran, the subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, which was formerly known as ValuJet, operates 404 flights a day to 40 destinations.

ValuJet nearly went bankrupt after the Federal Aviation Administration shut it down for 15 weeks in 1996 while it investigated a ValuJet DC-9 crash in the Florida Everglades.


Was this really necessary though?

Puhdiddle
 
BA
Posts: 10166
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 9:05 am

Was this really necessary though?

What's wrong with providing a little bit of history about the airline? I know you love Air Tran BR715-A1-30, but you can't deny the fact that they were once known as ValuJet. Yes, ValuJet didn't have a very good image. But the fact is it's history, and the fact is Air Tran was once known as ValuJet, and it is only normal for the media to give a little bit of history about a new airline serving a city. Whether it's a good background or not.

You can't deny history.

I have nothing against Air Tran. I have never personally flown them, but I am sure they are a great airline and are nothing like the ValuJet days.

I welcome them to Denver and wish them the best luck.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 9:18 am

Jim,

I'm not up on the details in Rochester but when I read ROC's grant app for Air21 funding I had noticed something that I had to go back and find.

On page 30, AirTran says they went into ROC "under a unique public-private partnership program with the County of Monroe and State of New York which minimizes the risk of expansion for the airline by establishing a Guarantee to cover any operating revenue shortfall for a period not to exceed two years capped at $2.0 million per year." Sounds like a revenue guarantee or subsidy but if not a travel bank then the government will pay? Is that right?
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf80/162860_web.pdf

Of course the Atlanta Journal-Constitution is confusing about what ROC used in this article about travel banks and subsidies used by AirTran. The terminology may not be accurate but it simplifies it for the media and general public.
http://www.meadhunt.com/News/travel_bank_atlantajournal.pdf

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
N80NA
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 12:20 pm

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 9:35 am

what about taking off in denver in the summer high heat ?

will the 717 be able to handle that nonstop ?
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:11 am

BA - I find it hard to believe though that every time USAirways starts service to a new city, the local media brings up their FIVE major crashes between 1989 and 1994? I mean, it's just a little bit of their history, right? Of course not....it's just the media drumming up a little drama...they simply can't resist.

Travis
 
BA
Posts: 10166
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:11 am

N80NA,

There might be some weight restrictions during the extra hot days during the summer. Denver generally has pleasant weather in the summer. Only a couple scorching days of heat.

The 16,000ft. runway will be done in September. That should help out Air Tran's flights.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
Posts: 10166
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:18 am

Travatl,

BA - I find it hard to believe though that every time USAirways starts service to a new city, the local media brings up their FIVE major crashes between 1989 and 1994? I mean, it's just a little bit of their history, right? Of course not....it's just the media drumming up a little drama...they simply can't resist.

Read the articles in the Rocky Mountain News about Alaska Airlines and Spirit Airlines flying to Denver.

At the end of each article, they give a brief history of that airline.

Nothing has changed, same with this article about Air Tran. They gave a brief history. Isn't the fact that it once was ValuJet and had many crashes history?

I really see no problem here Travatl. Yes, it's not a pleasant history. But the fact is it's history, it happened and it will never be forgotten and it will always be brought up for years to come.

The fact is covering a little bit of history about a new airline is normal. And the fact is it's past record of accidents and formerly being known as ValuJet is history. Therefore, it's perfectly normal to mention a little bit about that in the article.

I really see absolutely no problem here.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:25 am

Is AirTran really the second largest low-fare airline? How was that determined?
Next up: STL-CVG-MKE-MSP-STL.
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1431
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 11:16 am

"Is AirTran really the second largest low-fare airline? How was that determined?"

I've always wondered this too because FL isn't a major carrier yet ATA is....oh well...Anyways, good luck to them...if they were to have gone to COS...I might have been inclined to move out there and go back working for FL and open up that station...BA keep us updated as to who will do the ground and the behind the scenes stuff out there!

Ry
 
BA
Posts: 10166
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 1:25 pm

BA keep us updated as to who will do the ground and the behind the scenes stuff out there!

I'll try.  Smile

I think AirTran will eventually serve COS. But it may be a while.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
DIA
Posts: 3053
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:01 pm

Welcome to Denver, Airtran. I'm sure we'll have a long and prosperous future working together.

DIA

P.S. 717s. . .YEAH BABY!
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
fsuwxman
Posts: 435
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2002 3:57 pm

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:12 pm

Sorry for this question, but can someone explain the difference between a travel bank and a subsidy? I had previously thought that they were one in the same.
ASOS... Another Shi#y Observation Station
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3903
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:41 pm

On page 30, AirTran says they went into ROC "under a unique public-private partnership program with the County of Monroe and State of New York which minimizes the risk of expansion for the airline by establishing a Guarantee to cover any operating revenue shortfall for a period not to exceed two years capped at $2.0 million per year." Sounds like a revenue guarantee or subsidy but if not a travel bank then the government will pay? Is that right?

I was responding to a statement about travel banks, which are a specific type of arrangement used in the markets Aviation Week discussed. A revenue guarantee is like a loan guarantee, only used if the airline loses money. I'll have to look in the Democrat & Chronicle to see if any of it was actually used. AirTran was at 67 percent load factors by the end of its first month at ROC on four daily flights, and has obviously blown past that--and must have profitable yields as well--or they wouldn't be adding their seventh daily flight in March.

In any event, it's quite legitimate for AirTran to ask participation from smaller markets. Unlike Southwest, AirTran doesn't enter only those markets that can fill 10 dailies on day one, and more easily amortize station costs. AirTran takes more risk with fewer dailies, and can bring low-fare service to more markets.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
Fly_ATA
Posts: 594
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:10 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:48 pm

I would have to say that ATA is the second largest low fare carrier. FL isn't even a major so how could they be second ?
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3903
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:50 pm

Nothing has changed, same with this article about Air Tran. They gave a brief history. Isn't the fact that it once was ValuJet and had many crashes history?

Umm, that's one crash. I'm with Travis, though. If the media insist on mentioning ValuJet's one crash when discussing AirTran, then they ought to discuss US's five major crashes since 1990 as well. And that AA, DL, and CO all used SabreTech. And of course Delta's flights to wrong airports in the late 1980's that resulted in political cartoons like the one with an L1011 on a desert isle, and the pilot asking a castaway if it was Phoenix.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
rumorboy
Posts: 295
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 1:06 am

RE: New AirTran Service

Thu Jan 09, 2003 3:28 pm

Guys, every city they have announced in the last 2 years always mentions Valujet. I don't like it either but thats the way it goes. Especially as Airtran goes west you will see more of it because nobody on the west coast knows who the hell Airtran is. its unfair to a degree and also in my opinion fair. Im just excited to see them starting to expand westward.

The media love Valujet and its history. I saw a few weeks ago on MSNBC the news as they mentioned United bankruptcy and the $800,000.00 fine that FAA imposed on them. During the report Valujet came up. How Valujet and United problems are one in the same, I don't know but they love to bring it up.

I can say Airtran works hard to bring a good product to everybody.
 
Guest

RE: New AirTran Service

Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:57 am

"you can't deny the fact that they were once known as ValuJet. Yes, ValuJet didn't have a very good image. But the fact is it's history, and the fact is Air Tran was once known as ValuJet"

Negative. Airtran was never Valujet. Up until the merger, Airtran and Valujet were two separate airlines that had nothing to do with each other. They merged and took the AirTran name, and that's about it. There is hardly any upper management in AirTran presently that is former Valujet. All the old Critter DC9's will be gone by this summer. It's time to let it go.

Trav is right, no one mentions any crashes from a major airline in news articles. But why are they always so consistent in mentioning the Valujet crash in Airtran articles, when in fact the two airlines had nothing to do with each other? IMHO, this is something the Delta biased media in Atlanta keeps putting out to remind everyone of the crash and try to make AirTran look bad in the public view. "Airtran, formerly known as Valujet"...What a crock. AirTran had nothing to do with that crash, and really Valujet was pretty much cleared of any wrong doing as well.

I guess by that logic, TWA 800 is now American's fault?

Brian - SPOT THIS!
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: New AirTran Service

Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:07 am

Thank you Brian. AirTran is about as much ValuJet as Continental is the old PeoplExpress.

Travis

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