airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sat Jan 11, 2003 5:00 am

AR are planning to launch operations to Beijing and Tokyo this summer, either via Madrid or trans Pacific polar route, according to justplanes.com.
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Ciro
Posts: 639
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 1999 5:00 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sat Jan 11, 2003 10:54 pm

Crazy people... Managers are more harmful than the economic environment for airlines.

I think AR is missing something here.

Please, refer to http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/992400/4/

Cheers!
The fastest way to become a millionaire in the airline business is to start as a billionaire.
 
chepos
Posts: 5932
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sat Jan 11, 2003 11:24 pm

Yeah they sound like odd routes but AR needs foreign currency right now . I would think the best routes would be EZE-AKL-NRT or EZE-AKL-Beijing maybe they would consider Madrid as they have less competition to ASIA and have a small intra European hub which can feed the flights.
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
kaitak
Posts: 8935
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 12:18 am

Don't jump on them too quickly; I know Argentina is in deep doo-doo at the moment, but I read recently that AR is turning itself around, under new management - and are looking at new long haul types (one presumes A340s).

Turning now to the route, it looks as if it would be flown via MAD; oddly, the Great Circle Mapper shows that it's 11,341mi to NRT, via the Pacific, but 11,980 to PEK, going north over Europe. Of course, it's academic, because the route couldn't be flown N/S and in any case, AR might be able to get traffic rights from MAD to PEK and NRT. IB used to fly to NRT and maybe they could codeshare with IB?

 
Guest

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 7:45 am

Sorry, I cannot understand how AR can operate these routes profitably. If they want foreign currency, there are a whole bunch or more lucrative routes out there.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 7:56 am

Sorry, I cannot understand how AR can operate these routes profitably. If they want foreign currency, there are a whole bunch or more lucrative routes out there.

I don't see why these can't be profitable. Aerolineas Argentina, if they go ahead with these routes, will have a monopoly on non-stop service between Spain and Asia (outside of the Middle East). Madrid is one of the largest cities in the world and Spain is one of the world's largest economies.
a.
 
Prinair
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 8:53 am

Iberia served Narita for a long time and never made a profit.
PRINAIR : Puerto Rico International Airlines
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 9:02 am

Iberia served Narita for a long time and never made a profit.

I am quite certain that when Iberia served Narita, all flights stopped in Moscow, which did not help with profit. Plus, as little as 10-15 years ago, Spain was not an economic powerhouse like it is now.
a.
 
ZK-NBT
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Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 9:07 am

It's a hard route for AR to operate really. But I'm going to say with AR if they want to do both they will do 1 via AKL and 1 via MAD. There are no direct flights from AKL to China at all and the market is growing fast, all be it most of it is Tourist traffic. Also if Iberia served Narita without making a profit, it is a very busy route for Air NZ out of AKL so maybe AR would like to try competing. Won't be easy though.

Seems like they are planning to start flights quite soon so I guess we can expect an announcement fairly soon.
 
Rai
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 9:11 am

). Madrid is one of the largest cities in the world and Spain is one of the world's largest economies.

Madrid is 5 million people. Not even close to being one of the biggest cities in the world. Heck, there are probably ten cities in the US that have more people than Madrid.
 
Prinair
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 11:40 am

Spain...economic powerhouse...dream on.
PRINAIR : Puerto Rico International Airlines
 
Guest

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 12:20 pm

Sorry, but I'm just not convinced. Anyone wishing to fly from MAD to NRT or PEK need only connect in CDG or LHR (this is probably what happens in any case).

I'm no expert, I'll be the first to admit it, but it just doesn't seem like an obvious route to me. If they make money out of it, we'll good for them.

Otherwise, it's like the MH service to KUL-JNB-EZE....pointless.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 12:53 pm

Until we hear it straight from the horse's mouth, we have no reason to take JustPlanes.com's word for it.

N
 
Lan_Fanatic
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 11:41 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 1:05 pm

Prinair: As far as I am concerned, Spain is the 10th or 11th economy in the world, so don't laugh at it.

Rai: Madrid is 5 million people. It is one of the largest cities in Europe, larger than Rome,Amsterdam,Milan,Stockholm,Munich,Dublin, etc.
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 4:18 pm


The management did a wonderful job of turning AR around, but their success with that led them to imagine that AR was also capable of flying to the moon. They also want to start 4 new franchise airlines in Chile, Bolivia, Paraguay, and Uruguay investing only something like $7.5 million in each? Are they serious? Don't they understand that if you want to make a million in the airline business you must invest 100 million first!

 Smile LatinPlane
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 4:21 pm

Madrid is 5 million people. Not even close to being one of the biggest cities in the world. Heck, there are probably ten cities in the US that have more people than Madrid.

TWO US cites, New York City and Los Angeles, have more people than Madrid, which is the 45th largest city in the world based on city proper. Based on metropolitan area, Madrid would likely be the 6th or 7th largest city in the United States, and would probably rank in the 40s or 50s in the world.

Spain...economic powerhouse...dream on.

What are you talking about? Spain has the world's 10th largest economy, and Europe's fifth largest economy. Spain's Gross Product is $102B more than India's, $160B more than South Korea's, $202B more than the Netherland's, and $336B more than Switzerland's, just to name a few. Needless to say, thier Gross Product is still $507B short of Europe's #4, Italy (and $9,626B short of the United States'), but considering that Spain was pretty much a "nothing" as recent as the 1970s, their progress has been remarkable.
a.
 
Rai
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 4:25 pm

Rai: Madrid is 5 million people. It is one of the largest cities in Europe, larger than Rome,Amsterdam,Milan,Stockholm,Munich,Dublin, etc.

Lan: I am aware of that, but Madrid is nowhere close to being one of the largest cities in the WORLD (as the previous user mentioned). There's got to be at least ten cities with populations of 10 million people or more. Madrid isn't one of them...
 
Rai
Posts: 1697
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:12 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 4:34 pm

Mah: I'm referring to Metro area, which I think is a more accurate measurement as airports/infrastructure really serve the general region rather than just the city proper.

You should also check out this site:
http://www.citypopulation.de

Madrid ranks 51st in therms of metro area population. But even if you measure city proper, it can't be more than 4 million (According to this website, it is just under 3 million)
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 4:48 pm

Atlanta, Dallas, Washington, Chicago, Philadelphia and many other metro areas in the US have more than 6 million people.

N
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sun Jan 12, 2003 4:51 pm

Mah: I'm referring to Metro area, which I think is a more accurate measurement as airports/infrastructure really serve the general region rather than just the city proper.

I agree that it is, and, as you pointed out, with metro area, Madrid still comes out at 51. Considering there are hundreds of thousands of cities in this world, I consider that one of the world's largest.

But even if you measure city proper, it can't be more than 4 million (According to this website, it is just under 3 million)

I have seen figures as low as 2.8M, but most sources put Madrid at 3.4M or so.
a.
 
ArgInMIA
Posts: 475
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 4:07 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sat Jan 25, 2003 4:27 pm

Well going back to Aerolineas Argentinas.. Buenos Aires (13th largest city in the world according to that website, (realistically I should put it 9th after Delhi couse the conurbano is really huge) should be a good route to any other mayor city, also there is a huge Oriental population in Buenos Aires, is strange to see that noone is going directly to Tel avid since BA has the second largest Jewish community after New York.. Well I see several possibilities for Aerolineas.
Alto.. Mucho mas alto.. hasta la cumbre
 
airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Adding China And Japan

Sat Jan 25, 2003 9:02 pm

Their new livery is really the pits.

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