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CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Sun Jan 12, 2003 3:54 am

Cathay Pacific and American Airlines' proposed coe-share plan has been finally approved.

U.S. destinations open to Cathay customers include Atlanta, Austin, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, Fort Lauderdale, Houston, Las Vegas, Miami, New York, Orlando, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, San Diego, San Jose, San Juan, St. Louis, and Washington DC.

Cathay has been granted the right to offer intra-North American services by code-sharing from its Canadian and U.S. gateways - namely, Vancouver, Toronto, Los Angeles, New York JFK, and San Francisco.
 
blink182
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Sun Jan 12, 2003 6:03 am

I have three questions. What is the source? And, what Asian cities get AA codeshares? Does this mean American will start US-HKG services?

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
Guest

RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cit

Sun Jan 12, 2003 8:13 am

Check the news section of this site and you will find a report citing Cathay itself.

My thinking is that AA hasn't made a press release itself because it is still weighing its strategic options.

One of those options could be an ORD-HKG route. But this would require a side-agreement with its pilots. Knowing AA management, they are probably using the possibility of such a route as a bargaining chip. The two parties are currently in discussions over the Eagle ASM cap.

Whatever strategic decisions AA eventually makes, AA's entry into the HKG market does not bode well for United.
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Sun Jan 12, 2003 11:12 am

I want to see more AA 772's in Hong Kong...... PLEASE ??
 
scottysair
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Sun Jan 12, 2003 11:34 am

Hkgspotter1,

Because with U.S. Government was said no for AA did not flies to HKG flight and it was very disappointed for the routes from 3 years ago. I do knew that remembered from 3 years of the press releases for myself into the AA.com before. It's should be wait until US Government or DOT will make decisions to go for HKG flight and it was already flies for nonstop from EWR-HKG on B777 from 2 years ago by the first-ever nonstop. Well, talk ya later!

Regards,

Scott W.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Sun Jan 12, 2003 11:56 am

I think with the AA/CX codeshare approved, there is now this possibility: SJC-HKG using either a 777-200ER (AA) or an A340-300 (CX). There are enough Chinese (like me Big grin ) in the southern San Francisco Bay Area to make such a flight viable at least five times per week.  Smile
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Sun Jan 12, 2003 12:46 pm

It's good to see STL on the list. We're finally becoming a significant part of a global network. Much as I miss TWA, STL was getting the short shrift on the world scene as TWA just didn't lure in the big international fish. They had a start with Royal Jordanian, Royal Air Maroc, Kuwait Airways, Air Malta and the never-implemented America West alliance, but never had the chance to become what I envisoned: The US partner of choice for second-tier airlines of litlle interest to the larger alliances. I always hoped for a "Trans World Alliance" featuring TWA/HP and a slew of smaller international carriers...Oh well, I also dreamed of Ozark (1) becoming a major on it's own much as USAir and Piedmont did...old dreams die hard. Now I hope for any international expansion at STL on the part of AA or oneworld.
Coast to Coast and Border to Border, Ozark Flies YOUR Way!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Sun Jan 12, 2003 1:26 pm

I think with the AA/CX codeshare approved, there is now this possibility: SJC-HKG using either a 777-200ER (AA) or an A340-300 (CX).

AA has already stated that after its new NRT flight begins, any further Asian expansion on its behalf will take place at Chicago
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cit

Sun Jan 12, 2003 1:41 pm

CX already serves SFO.... but it would certainly make more sense from a leveraging connecting opportunities perspective to switch that service to SJC.

I wonder if that would significantly impact their loads negatively? It would do some positively by allowing AA passengers to connect on.

N
 
blink182
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Sun Jan 12, 2003 2:11 pm

CX drop SFO? I can't see it happening. San Fransisco is too big of a market not to warrant HKG service.
If any new AA/CX service to HKG happens, my gut feeling is it will be an AA 777.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
pilottim747
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Sun Jan 12, 2003 3:30 pm

I agree with Blink182 that any new services to HKG will probably be on an AA777. They've been waiting for years to get this access.

pilottim747
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Sun Jan 12, 2003 3:42 pm

Both airlines have been blowing a good bit of hot air about new USA/HKG routes as of late... with nothing to show for it.

How long now has CX been talking of its "upcoming" NYC nonstop?

How long now has AA been talking about flying its metal to HKG?

Too long for any of us to really care until we see a plane full of pax land at either place... IM[NS]HO  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cit

Sun Jan 12, 2003 5:42 pm

Now now...

CX has been awaiting the arrival of their A346 fleet to begin nonstop service to JFK.

And now that there's a new bilateral, replete with semi-open skies and 5th freedoms for US carriers, AA might make a move.

Blink182-

I never suggested discarding San Francisco. Just eschewing SFO for SJC.

SJC is not hugely more inconvenient from the city (take 280 down and around), much business travel is technology oriented and is in the South Bay area anyway. You'd also get more connecting opportunities via an AA quasihub.

Just something to wrap the brain around...

N
 
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RayChuang
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Sun Jan 12, 2003 11:47 pm

Given that CX still has a good-sized A340-300 fleet, I think with the new codeshare agreeement approved there's a very good chance CX will very seriously consider flying between HKG and SJC, especially for business travel. People forget that in the southern San Francisco Bay Area there are large communities of Asians (more than just Chinese and Vietnamese--there are large Indian and Pakistani populations) that would love to be able to fly to Asia without the longer ground trip to SFO. Since SJC now has 10,000+ foot runways, a fully-loaded A343 should be able to fly from SJC to HKG non-stop year-round.

One idea that might work is SJC-HKG five times per week, with CX flying three times per week and AA flying two times per week. The flights will leave from SJC pretty much within one hour of the same time UA 805 leaves SFO for HKG, so the flights will arrive at HKG in the late afternoon the next day. There's no way SJC-HKG will be a late evening flight due to noise curfews at SJC after 2300 hours local time.
 
blink182
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Mon Jan 13, 2003 7:12 am

RayChuang, don't you think alternating the flights would confuse the average pax(ie, not an a.net user)?

I am curious to see how ORD gets service, whether it is AA or CX is the question, but AA/CX would love to connect two big hubs.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Mon Jan 13, 2003 7:20 am

CX has been awaiting the arrival of their A346 fleet to begin nonstop service to JFK.

Actually, CX has announced in the past that they would begin nonstop HKG-NYC service first with a 747 (1998), then with an A343 (2001), then with an A346 (2003).... now what're they going to wait for? 772LR? Sonic Cruiser? Bat Wing? Teleportation  Laugh out loud
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Mon Jan 13, 2003 3:51 pm

I believe that Cathay has already announced when they are going to start the JFK direct flight. I just can't remember when it was.

The A340-600 has not been doing very well and Cathay are not too happy with it. It is overweight compared to what they expected, and the aircraft does not meet up to the performance figures given by Airbus. During the initial hoohah about this aircraft Cathay regarded it as a replacement one day for the 744s. Now, the aircraft carries 100 less passengers and even then cannot make JFK-HKG on a full load without payload penalties. Don't hold your breath for us getting more than 3.
 
gigneil
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cit

Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:04 pm

I don't understand how Cathay could know if it could make JFK-HKG without weight restrictions having not tried it.

How far off have they been flying it? Taipei? Is that a sufficient demonstration of the aircraft's capability?

I'm not saying its not true, just that I don't understand it.

Virgin has announced they're quite pleased with the aircraft, and that it meets expectations. We'll have to wait and see in terms of other airlines getting the plane as well.

Are things like this possible to fix?

N
 
ripcordd
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:18 pm

AA is dying to start ord-hkg service, there loop-hole around not getting approval is it will be a CX flight number with a AA code-share flight number operated by AA's 777 with AA pilots and AA fa's. This will be great news for AA and ORD@HKG bad news for UA
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:21 pm

I am not sure how far Virgin flies their A346s, but I think that Tokyo is the furthest, which doesn't compare to JFK-HKG at the height of winter.

Cathay have been flying to LAX 3/4 times a week. It does not take long after an aircraft type starts flying for the actual performance figures to be released, and every airline has different cabin interiors and different weights so one airline being happy with then does not mean another will also be happy, especially if expectations were different to begin with.

If these problems are indeed true, then I guess the savings can be from engine upgrades/modifications in order to improve efficiency.
 
gigneil
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cit

Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:42 pm

Hmm. I was under the impression that Cathay had a very low seat count, certainly lower than the 380 pax Airbus claims it can fly 7500 miles.

This will be very disappointing if the aircraft isn't meeting expectations. I hope the A345 fares better.

I also hope these are problems that Airbus and/or Rolls Royce can resolve.

So in problems like this, is it Airbus' fault, or Rolls Royce's?

N
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Tue Jan 14, 2003 1:57 am

I don't understand how Cathay could know if it could make JFK-HKG without weight restrictions having not tried it.

They always knew some weight restriction would be included. The A346 has a range of 7500nm. HKG-JFK is 7014nm, and that's just the great-circle route, not the still-air.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
hkg82
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Tue Jan 14, 2003 2:21 am

Now that the US & HK have clinched a new air services agreement, it's all the more likely AA or CX would begin an ORD-HKG service.

It’d be great if CX would do HKG-SJC now that they can but I don’t it happening, they’re very conservative when it comes to route expansion. Can CX do routes between Europe & America as a result of the new agreement or is that only possible with a full open skies deal?

As for HKG-JFK nonstop, I think CX said they would most probably start flights in April (after receiving all 3 A346s) but in this environment, who knows when they’ll start the flights!!

Hkg82.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Tue Jan 14, 2003 2:29 am

If CX is so disappointed with the A346's performance.... perhaps it's the one who recently ordered the eight 773ERs incognito??
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
blink182
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Tue Jan 14, 2003 8:01 am

Just for the record, who here thinks DFW will get HKG service? I don't, especially if CX is unhappy with the A346 and unless AA feels a needy desire to link DFW-HKG, I do not think it will happen. I do think though, that ORD is a matter of when, not if.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
gigneil
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cit

Tue Jan 14, 2003 8:23 am

Concordeboy-

Its certainly possible, but the general consensus from the CX employees has been that they're very anti-ETOPS over there, and will never fly the 777 over the pond.

That also being said, if they're unhappy with the performance of a brand new aircraft now, I bet they'll be more cautious before ordering another new untested aircraft.

They barely put any seats in that A346 to begin with... I'm surprised that it'll have such huge restrictions. Maybe we'll find out more after the service starts.

N
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Tue Jan 14, 2003 9:53 am

Gigneil,

Although CX have only 289 seats or so in the A346, the seat pitches are basically the same as the other aircraft in the fleet, except for business that has 70inch pitch instead of 60 like the A343s. Even if you were to take the extra 10 inches from the business class, you still would probably only get 300 pax on board and maintain the Cathay standard of pitch. Certainly not a 744 replacement like Airbus first claimed.

ConcordeBoy,

Did someone order 777-300ERs? Nothing has been announced to us in Cathay, but all the signs are pointing to us putting an order in for 777-300ERs to replace the 744s to Europe. I guess this will allow the 744 to be redeployed on more Pacific routes. However I was not aware an unidentified customer has ordered 8 of them. Very interesting, as some in CX mention that we have already ordered them! Will certainly keep my eye on this!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:28 am

Its certainly possible, but the general consensus from the CX employees has been that they're very anti-ETOPS over there, and will never fly the 777 over the pond.

If I were you, I'd take such comments with a fairly large grain of salt. If CX were as anti-ETOPS as is allegedly claimed... they wouldnt be flying twinjets to places like SYD under ETOPS138+ nor would they have ordered longhaul twinjets to begin with......


Did someone order 777-300ERs? Nothing has been announced to us in Cathay, but all the signs are pointing to us putting an order in for 777-300ERs to replace the 744s to Europe. I guess this will allow the 744 to be redeployed on more Pacific routes. However I was not aware an unidentified customer has ordered 8 of them. Very interesting, as some in CX mention that we have already ordered them! Will certainly keep my eye on this!

From what I hear, this order for eight 773ER is most likely from BR to shore up their options, commitment to the 777, and commitment to launch the 772LR. CX and EK are still said to be a possibility though.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cit

Tue Jan 14, 2003 6:34 pm

Cx_flyboy-

I finally found a seating plan for the A346. The only one you guys have is on your USA website.

Not only is the business class pitch much much greater than for your regional aircraft, but also you have a good number more business class seats as well as the first class cabin, at least more than the 772ER. You have about the same number of business class seats as your 773, but if you compressed the business class a little, and took out the first class cabin, you could fit a good 6 more rows of economy in.

And is the seat pitch in economy not greater than on your regional 777s?

Anyway I can see more now about why Airbus proposed a greater number of seats... if you configured it similarly to your regional 777-300s it'd be closer in seat count than I originally anticipated.

If Cathay were to get 773ERs, and they were similarly configured, they would have more seats yes (due to the extra seat per row in both economy and business), but it wouldn't be as many as I'd originally thought.

Anyway, I hope Rolls and Airbus can make Cathay happy. Cathay does a lot of business with Airbus and I'd hate for that to be compromised. I also hope the performance problems don't affect the starting of the JFK nonstop service.

Maybe this is an opportunity for GE or PW to hop in with a more efficient powerplant? Wouldn't help Cathay, but maybe others?

N
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CX/AA Code-share Approved, Including 20 US Cities

Wed Jan 15, 2003 4:51 am

at least more than the 772ER

CX doesnt operate the 772ER


I also hope the performance problems don't affect the starting of the JFK nonstop service.

Dont get your hopes up... it'll only be the umteenth time they've talked about and then cancelled such a proposed service  Sad


Anyway, I hope Rolls and Airbus can make Cathay happy.

IMO, they should've just waited for the 772LR.... it's no secret that GE wants to give them an Airbus-like killer deal in order to break RR's hold; and no doubt that Boeing would basically give them the farm so that the 772LR could get a very high-profile order; by the plane's 2005 debut, they should finally be ACTUALLY ready to start JFK nonstop; and in the event that they order the 773ER (a distinct possibility), then that paves the way for a 772LR order.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!