United777
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Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sat Jan 25, 2003 2:22 pm

Here is a update on Alaska Airlines maybe buying Airbus A320 family aircraft.

Honestly I really don't think Alaska Airlines will order Airbus aircraft for another five to eight years. They have been a loyal customer to Boeing and was launch customer of the 737-900. I think they will be a customer for the 737-900X also.

http://www.alaskasworld.com/NEWS/2003/01/22_QofWk_Airbus.asp
 
ScooterTrash
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sat Jan 25, 2003 3:30 pm

About the only way I see Alaska getting Airbii is if Airbus becomes the only manufacturer that can offer a viable replacement for the B737-200 Combis. That is the aircraft that is really getting long in the tooth at Alaska, and I am sure they are persuing a replacement.
 
737-990
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sat Jan 25, 2003 3:36 pm

I also don't think Alaska will buy Airbus. I think its a ploy to get a better deal out of Boeing, but its not all that far fetched. Remember that this "loyal" Boeing customer went to McDonnell-Douglas back in the early '80s when it purchased the MD-80 over the 737-300. Back then MD was a much bigger competitor to Boeing than Airbus was.
Happiest is a man who has his vocation as a hobby
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sat Jan 25, 2003 3:54 pm

I really doubt that Airbus will ever hit the Alaska fleet. What I do think they could use is a few 757's!
What do you guys think, any possibilities?

-Dmitry
 
L-188
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sat Jan 25, 2003 3:57 pm

You know, the 757 was a rumor that was floating around 10 years ago when I worked there. Obviously nothing came of it. That was the time they had just gotten rid of the 727's that spring and the 757 was marketed as a 727 replacement.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
United777
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sat Jan 25, 2003 4:05 pm

I really don't see the 757-200 -300 being in the AS fleet if the new 737-900X will be launched this year by Boeing and looks like will be. I could see the 737-900 and 737-900X be the flagship aircraft for Alaska Airlines.

That would be a great fleet 737-700s, 737-900s and 737-900X's!

 
gigneil
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sat Jan 25, 2003 4:30 pm

Its good to see the CFO of Alaska point out the multinational development programs of both manufacturers.

Its sad to see so many people wrapped up in patriotism. I love America, I love living here. But the vision I have of the future is of a more unified world, with more multinational commerce and fewer lines of distinction... and I know a lot of Americans are against that.

Makes me sad.

N
 
cwapilot
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RE: Gigneil

Sat Jan 25, 2003 8:59 pm

"... and I know a lot of Americans are against that."

...as are many Germans, and French, and Italians, etc., etc., etc......as a matter of fact, the major portion of anti-globalism protestors at multinational economic summits happen to be from Europe, and the largest protests, even larger than the shameful riots in Seattle, were in Italy.

What many Americans, and Europeans, on this board are against is people like you using every post to make some sort of offhand political remark. This makes all of us sad.
Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 4:21 am

Overheard in a meeting with senior management this week:

(paraphrasing, not word-for-word)

"We sent out RFPs to both Boeing and Airbus on the cost of acquiring new aircraft. Airbus has been giving great discounts to new customers lately, and Boeing...well, they haven't been as willing to discount their product.

So we essentially said to Airbus, 'Look, it'll cost us a lot less money to operate just one aircraft type. BUT, if you're willing to discount your product to the point where the cost of two fleet types is negated, we can talk.'"

Also, part of the deal would be that Airbus would be required to:

1. Buy new simulators for AS
2. Pay for the extra crew and tech training for two fleet types
3. Pay for the extra parts and spares for two fleet types
4. Take MD-80s off our hands in partial trade for the new planes

"So, the hurdle is set REALLY high for Airbus," he said.


Also overheard:

"We will have 22 73Gs on the property once all is said and done, and we're comfortable with that number. Any new planes will be either 739s or perhaps even some 738s to replace the 734s that we can return to the lessors. We've been talking to Boeing about the new 737-900X, which would have a 10,000lb increase in MTOW, meaning more fuel and therefore more range."

When directly asked about the possibility of 757s:

"The 757 is a great plane, but we'd still be looking at a new fleet type and all the costs that go along with it...and only getting maybe 10-15 more seats than a -900 can hold. So going with the 757 doesn't really make sense for us right now. Besides, if the -900X is as good as Boeing says it will be, then that's our plane for the future."
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
gigneil
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 4:27 am

cwapilot-

Thanks for your input.

I pretty rarely express my views on politics, but, having read the URL the poster suggested, where it made it clear that employees of airlines are interested in business decisions based on notions of patriotism, it seemed appropriate.

In the future, state it as your own opinion. Don't tell me what the board does and does not need.

N
 
LFutia
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 4:38 am

I could see an AS 757 in a Disney scheme. I think that they would stick w/ Boeing. They seem happy w/ Boeing.

Leo/ORD
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 4:52 am

As much as I would love to see a 757 in Alaska's fleet, I just do not see it happening.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
transswede
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 4:54 am

Could they perhaps be interested in the A321? (If the 737-900X fails to materialize)
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 5:05 am

What type of Buses they looking into? I can't imagining a Bus combi? Lets here what you have to say guys.

-Dmitry
 
ScooterTrash
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 8:00 am

EA CO AS:

Have you heard anything about possible replacement of the 737-200 combis? I am under the impression that Boeing does not have another 737 type in current manufacture that is certificated for combi use. I don't know about Airbus.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 9:48 am

Scooter-

Thanks for reminding me! Another one of the "hurdles" that Airbus was given? They had to figure out how to make an A-320 combi! (I'm not kidding!)

The -200Cs that AS currently has will probably remain in the fleet until Boeing overcomes their hurdles with their new -700 combi product. It's not as flexible as the -200Cs are, as they can't be configured for different numbers of pallets. Aside from a VERY prohibitive price, I seem to recall another problem with the -700 combi being mentioned, but can't recall what it was.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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asqx
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 11:01 am

The problem with combi's isn't so much the manufacturer, but the FAA, who sees aircraft without a fixed or reenforced and if I am not mistaken fire resistant barrier between the passengers and the cargo, something that just isn't possiblee with the old style adjustable arrangements.
 
ScooterTrash
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 12:02 pm

EA CO AS:

Thanks for the info. It is a personal aspiration of mine to fly for Alaska one of these days, so much the better if it is in a good old 737-200C! I always have had a thing for older airplanes.

You know, I find it interesting that it is so much more profitable to fly boxes instead of "livestock", yet manufacturers are paying little if any attention to building a good combi type of airplane. I am just a humble turboprop pilot, but one would think that many airlines could find new streams of revenue by enhancing thier cargo operations.

But IMHO, I do not think any Airbus products would make good combis for Alaska. Not sturdy enough and there probably exists some logistic barriers to product support.
 
scottysair
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 12:14 pm

EA CO AS,

I do think that is very good choice need replace older with B737-200 out of the fleet and need get new B737-700 aircraft into the future. I think AS will made decide need orders more B739 aircraft for the expansion into the east coast flight. I don't wait much longer how is load factors for route from SEA-MIA is doing? Please let us know!! Thanks!

Regards!
 
skymileman
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 2:03 pm

I think that Alaskaairlines hit the nail on the head. What they need are some 757's. I flew Alaska to boston last month, and those 737-900's are just not spacious enough for comfort on a flight that long.
 
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 5:35 pm

Skymileman-

The cross-section of the 739 is identical to that of the 757. It's just the perception of being on a slightly smaller plane that makes it feel "cramped" when compared to the 757.

Oddly enough, most people complain about transcons in the 757, wanting carriers to upgauge the flights to 767s or higher! The 73G and 739 are fine for transcons, provided the service is attentive and frequent.

ScottysAir-

The loads on SEA-MIA are averaging better than 85% monthly in the main cabin, with the first class cabin running at just under 100%.

Odds are that SEA-MIA will have a second daily roundtrip (look for a redeye from SEA, with an early AM return from MIA) sometime before 3Q03.

Scooter-

You certainly hit the nail on the head! The problem is that AS is probably in more dire need for combi equipment than any other commercial airline in the world.

Hopefully Boeing will come to their senses and ask the Angle Lake guys "Um, ok...so what do you need us to do with the 73G combi product to make it worth your while?" I'm betting AS would sign orders for 5 of them tomorrow if Boeing can make the product as flexible as the -200C and give them a bit of a break on the price.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
ha763
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 6:00 pm

The problem is most likely due to the FAA. According to Boeing's and the Navy's website, the C-40A has three configurations: all-passenger (121 seats); all-cargo (up to eight pallets); or combi (accommodate up to three pallets and 70 seats). So, there is no reason a 73G combi can't be as flexible as the -200QC, other than the FAA.
 
scottysair
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 10:45 pm

Great!!! I'm glad to hear for AS is doing good for the route from SEA-MIA flight at load factors. Hopefully, that's will be second flight on the redeyes over night from SEA-MIA soon into this year or so. I knew that is improved service out of the east coast to Seattle, WA. Well, talk ya later!

Regards!
 
L-188
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RE: Update On Alaska Airlines Looking At Airbus

Sun Jan 26, 2003 11:25 pm

The FAA will no longer certify mixed configuration aircraft unless they have a permanent bulkhead in the aircraft that is part of the structure. This was a result of the fire that destroyed that Combi-747 of SAA a few years ago over the Indian Ocean.

The theory is that the lightweight movable bulkhead that is used in previous combi conversions does not meet fireproofing standards.



Needless to say, since you can't change the configuration that aircraft is only going to be economic in certain situations and those may not happen enough to justify it.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

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