Tom in NO
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DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:20 am

I'm curious as to the status of the demolitions going on at:

Dallas-Love: the east end of the terminal. It looks like the BN and TI concourses are gone.
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Photo © Andreas Müller



Austin-Mueller: anything new?
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Photo © Shane G Deemer



Tom in NO (at MSY)
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
jtamu97
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:23 am

Tom,
I read an article a long time ago on AOPA that Mueller was going to be reopened as a GA airport due to the lack of hangar space and the increase in commercial activity at Bergstrom. However, I have not heard much else since then.

Later,
Jay
Propeller, we don't need no stinkin propeller
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:57 am

Tom, you picked a great time to ask about the progress at Mueller. There was a big article in Sunday's Austin American Statesman regarding plans for the site and also what has been done so far. It was a good article and it talked about redevelopment at Denver's Stapleton, too.

The sky's the limit, but risks run deep
City marshals vision, money, time to turn 700 acres into community
01/26/2003

http://www.austin360.com/auto_docs/epaper/editions/sunday/news_2.html

The article mentions that the terminal is gone now, only the control tower remains. Also, I remember reading about a year ago that some of the hangars had been converted to soundstages and are used by (I think) the Texas Film Commission.

LoneStarMike

 
gigneil
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Tue Jan 28, 2003 12:34 pm

The Stapleton redevelopment is progressing nightly. I drove up Quebec St. from downtown to I-70 the other day, and saw a lot of the new shops and houses.

The old Stapleton terminal is an RTD bus station now, a relatively major one.

The only problem with living out there is its just so damn desolate. That area of town around Stapleton is just so ugly. I hope they put a lot into landscaping.

N
 
BA
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Tue Jan 28, 2003 12:52 pm

The Stapleton redevelopment is the largest urban redevelopment project in the nation. It will take 30 years to complete it.

I really do hope they keep Mueller. It's always sad to see an airport demolished.

Looks like it will be very nice when done. Already there are many parts up of course.

Gigneil,

The Stapleton terminal is gone now. RTD uses the parking garage that was for the airport. The garage is a park-n-ride for people to park there cars and hop on buses to many places around the Denver metro. Eventually it will be served by the AirTrain which will be a 90mph train that will go from Denver Union Station (located in downtown) to the airport.

Last I heard, the parking garage was falling apart. Not sure what they're going to do.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Tom in NO
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:01 pm

Mike, thanks for posting the Austin article.

Sounds like the Catellus people have some good ideas, but also have their work cut out for them. I've never had the opportunity to visit Austin (but many of my friends say great things about it) or Mueller, so I'm not sure what kind of neighbrohood it's in (from the article, it sounds like a middle class area). That'll be a factor in the development of the Mueller area. And there's always the costs involved.

Tom in NO (at MSY)
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
gigneil
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:03 pm

I'd kill for a train from Union Station to the airport.

I can walk to the free Mallride, ride it to Union Station, and be on the train in 15 minutes or less. Or, if they extend the light rail from 30th and Downing to Stapleton, I could ride the light rail then the Airtrain.

Far better than driving up Speer past the construction nonsense by the Convention Center onto I-25, then the horrible I-25 to I-70 East interchange, then the horrible construction on I-70, then the interminable nothingness of Pena Blvd.

N
 
BA
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:09 pm

Plans are to extend the Light-Rail from 30th & Downing to 40th & Downing where it will meet up with the AirTrain (first stop for AirTrain after leaving Union Station) and you can connect there.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
gigneil
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:17 pm

BA-

Where do you get all this fabulous information?

Are there any timetables, or is this like the Purple Line on DC's Metrorail which has been under way in some regard for 20 years and will be underway for at least 15 more?

N
 
Tom in NO
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Wed Jan 29, 2003 12:30 am

Getting back to the topic at hand, any new news on the demolition at DAL?

Tom in NO (at MSY)
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
jsnww81
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Wed Jan 29, 2003 2:32 am

I was at Love Field back in December and the former Braniff terminal concourse (from the old second-level lobby to the rotunda, so old gates 60-70) has been pulled down. The rest of the terminal was still standing, although I didn't get a look at the old Texas International 'satellite.' Judging from the picture, it looks like it's gone too. I know it was slated for removal.

The terminal interior has seen a lot of modification. Southwest built a huge new security checkpoint smack in the middle of the old terminal lobby, where the main entrance to all three concourses used to be. Big walls now channel passengers around the corner from this checkpoint into the West Concourse. A skinnier corridor now takes Delta and Continental passengers to their gates on the other two concourses.

The parking garage expansion was almost finished. The garage now takes up the ENTIRE midfield parking lot, and has a tunnel with moving walkways running along its north side.

If I remember right, the Love Field master plan calls for eventually reopening the old ticketing wing and building a new skybridge from the parking lot. What's left of the East Concourse (the old Texas International gates, plus the three remaining Braniff gates that AA renovated before they pulled out of Love) can be used by airlines. The North Concourse is also slated to be reactivated when the need arises, although it will require some heavy remodeling - it was turned into offices back in the 1970s and will have to be retrofitted back into gate areas.
 
saxman66
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Wed Jan 29, 2003 2:51 am

I'd like to see some diagrams and pictures of the old Love Field back before DFW was built. I'm at Love Field often but don't get to see the old parts where the old ticket counters were, Branif and Texas Internation. Any links would be great.
Chris
Ride Amtrak!
 
Tom in NO
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Wed Jan 29, 2003 3:24 am

Chris,

George Cearley wrote an excellent historical book on Love Field. There is a copy of it at the Dallas Library's Main Branch in the reference department. It has diagrams of the terminal during each phase (email me if you want me to send copies to you).

Tom in NO (at MSY)

PS: Congrats on the Eagle Scout, I earned mine in May of '78.
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
jsnww81
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Wed Jan 29, 2003 6:18 am

Chris:

You might also try www.braniffinternational.org for lots of photos of the terminal that Braniff built at Love Field in 1968. Although the interior has been gutted now, it was apparently light-years ahead of its time when it was opened. Hard to imagine that the drab old East Concourse was ever cutting-edge, but the interior certainly is impressive.

Click on the "Facilities" link once you hit the main page.
 
brons2
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Wed Jan 29, 2003 6:27 am

Usually I have a love of things aviation related.

But having had lived in Austin the last 11 years, if they reopen Mueller it would be a disaster. It's in the middle of some very densly populated areas. It doesn't have enough space for a decent sized runway. (Bergstrom's runway is 13400 from threshold to threshold). Parking in the area is non-existant. Other GA airports exist in the area.

And first and foremost, Austin needs more housing close to downtown.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
blink182
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Wed Jan 29, 2003 7:57 am

For DAL, It will take something big to take down the airport. Southwest has been flying comfortably there for 30 years and does not seem to have plans to quit.

If it weren't for the Wrong Amendment(i know it's Wright, but I can't stand it), I could picture DAL as being a big regional airport seeing lots of RJ's and a few 737s and A319s.

I can picture it in my mind, 3 prongs with a glass exterior and a very open, futuristic interior. 1 renovated prong being used by Southwest and 2 new ones seeing RJ services. In other words, a Chicago-Midway copycat except with less mainline.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
sccutler
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:03 am

Austin's Meuller could be a vital and effective General Aviation airport, and its existing runways and taxiways are thoroughly adequate- indeed, excellent- for that sort of use. Unfortunately, for reasons having everything to do with politics and nothing to do with practical reality, it will never be.

"But having had lived in Austin the last 11 years, if they reopen Mueller it would be a disaster. It's in the middle of some very densly populated areas. It doesn't have enough space for a decent sized runway. (Bergstrom's runway is 13400 from threshold to threshold). Parking in the area is non-existant. Other GA airports exist in the area."

Huh?

The area is an essentially perfect location for a GA airport, with plenty of land for that limited use. It is bounded by I-35 (what is it there, 10 lanes plus feeders?) and the Morris Williams golf course, hardly "densely populated," and certainly no more densely populated than any other in-city area. There is no doubt that, as the air carrier airport, Meuller had outlived its usefulness; as a GA airport, it could and would be perfect, and the grounds of the airport provide plenty of land for a robust, well-run GA airport, and many other uses besides.

What is most confounding, however, is the claim, "Other GA airports exist in the area." Where? Have they just been hiding the fool things from me? I'm so dopey that, the last couple of times I flew to Austin, all I could find in the way of airports were Georgetown (29nm from AUS), Lakeway (on the other side of Lake Travis from Austin), and Lago Vista (hell and gone west from Austin). Your definition of "in the area" must mean "in the same time zone."

Since Austin Executive (formerly Tim's Airpark) closed, friend, Bergstrom's IT in Austin, and if you don't have a champagne budget and an airplane to match, the GA facilities are terrible (trust me, when there are a bunch of King Airs, Citations and G-V's on the ramp, neither Gate One nor Signature is all that eager to beat feet to help the poor schmuck in a 172 or Archer; I know, one of 'em actually lost the Archer I flew there a couple of months ago).

Lastly, Meuller already has great runways, and no GA airport needs anything like Bergstrom's 13,400 foot, or its 9,000 foot, runway. FWIW, AA used to fly DC-10's out of Meuller's runway- guess that's "decent" enough sized!

Enough ranting.. Ciao.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
KAUSpilot
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RE: DAL And AUS-Mueller Various Demolition Status?

Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:54 am

I think it would've been nice to have a seperate GA airport in the AUS metro area at the same time that they opened Bergstrom, but now there is so much GA infrastructure at AUS I don't know how much traffic a reliever in the area would actually get. Two good FBO's, new hangars that seem to be opening every year, and sufficient maintenence facilities are now in place on the east side of AUS.

It is somewhat annoying when you have to hold for wake turbulence behind departing and arriving airliners, but beyond that I've never been anything more than #8 in line to takeoff or land on 17L/35R. About half the time there is no wait at all to depart. Traffic around the airport really isn't that bad either, although mass transit access to bergstrom could be improved, especially to the GA area.