flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

My Friend Crashed His Rented Cessna

Wed Jan 29, 2003 5:27 pm

Just thought I'd let you know my friend stalled at 500 feet on a go-around and hit a tree. The plane then hit some power lines and crashed. This most likeley happened because he did not do weight and balance. Him and his friends (3 friends) are alive, but some are hurt. This was a Cessna 172 in New Mexico.

Just a reminder.... DO YOUR CHECKLISTS, YOU NEVER KNOW WHICK FLIGHT WILL BE YOUR LAST (either cuz you die or you licence gets pulled).
 
duff
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2001 10:29 am

RE: My Friend Crashed His Rented Cessna

Wed Jan 29, 2003 5:33 pm

Not sure you should make that post public just yet.
 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: My Friend Crashed His Rented Cessna

Wed Jan 29, 2003 5:37 pm


hehe....
 
lamyl_hhlco
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 8:28 am

RE: My Friend Crashed His Rented Cessna

Wed Jan 29, 2003 5:47 pm

it's just a warning and he's right, most of private pilots never use their check list and barely do a preflight and weight and balance. Accident happens of course , but you can avoid them at 90% if you do things as the regulation requires. For the story , I had years ago a flight out of Tulsa on a C152, and during my preflight check i've noticed at my left main wheel that the brakes disk was loose. I called my instructeur and he said he would never have noticed that if i didn't, we could have crashed at the landing. So just be carrefull when you fly and DO your preflight check all the time, it's Important!

Lamyl
 
Lufthansa404
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 7:21 am

RE: My Friend Crashed His Rented Cessna

Wed Jan 29, 2003 6:24 pm

Yep, totally worth it and it dont cost anything. Although it can cost your life not doing it  Smile
 
707CMF
Posts: 4698
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:39 pm

RE: My Friend Crashed His Rented Cessna

Wed Jan 29, 2003 7:20 pm

Entirely agree.

Preflight is vitally important, so is weight and balance. (and the preflight also gives you the opportunity to talk to the plane and to hug it...)

Last crash at my airport (we don't have many, and that one a few weeks ago was kinda spectacular ) involved a single piston engine aircraft. The moron took of with frost on the wings (bad bad bad), 3 people on board (pilot + 2 pax) + 80 kg of luggage (that is a lot for a 120 HP engine) he exceeded the allowed load, and the gravity center was way too much to the rear. Sure enought, he stalled a few seconds after take off and crashed into a farm hangar (50 meters from a gas station !!!). I don't know where he picked his luck, but he is still alive (the way he crashed, nobody should have normally survived)...
How much you bet he hadn't done the preflight ?

BTW, I'm glad your friend did not die. I have just one comment to say about him. The simple fact that he went around proves that he is serious and hopefully will plead in his favour.

Antoine, always serious when doing his preflight

 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: My Friend Crashed His Rented Cessna

Wed Jan 29, 2003 7:24 pm

I remember I did a preflight once on a plane that a kid before be just soloed. The alternator belt was half off, he missed it, but got lucky. I found it, did not fly that day, but slept VERY well that night.
 
sppl24
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2001 11:27 am

RE: My Friend Crashed His Rented Cessna

Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:40 am

I don't think this should of been posted until the report comes out. I know if I was your "friend" I would be pissed at you. That said the fact he was flying around makes it less likely that it was a weight and balance issue. 172s with the flaps down tend to pull up and require a lot of pressure to keep the nose down on landing you tend to have a lot of nose up trim. Also a 172 won't climb with full flaps. It could of been any number of things. Your not helping your friend any by posting this here.

 
Guest

RE: My Friend Crashed His Rented Cessna

Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:20 am

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Flying is a lot of fun and it's easy to let yourself become complacient. I'm afraid that your friend is about to learn yet another very important lesson...

If you are flying a rented, borrowed, or flying club aircraft make sure you understand your insurance and liability status. Verify that you are personally covered while you are flying the aircraft. In many cases, you are not personally covered when you fly other people's aircraft. In the event of an accident, if you are not personally covered, you may find yourself in a position where the insurance covers the aircraft and aircraft owner (the FBO) but not the pilot (you). In these cases, the insurance company will pay the owner for his covered losses and then go after the pilot (you) to recover the money that they paid out. This is called subrogation. Needless to say, this could be financially devastating for you and your family - airplanes, even trainers, aren't cheap. Fortunately, there are two or three aviation insurance companies that offer very reasonably priced “non-owner” aircraft insurance policies. Information on these policies is readily available at most FBOs, in most aviation magazines, or through your local aviation insurance agent.

Jetguy
 
Lufthansa404
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 7:21 am

RE: My Friend Crashed His Rented Cessna

Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:39 am

"Also a 172 won't climb with full flaps"

Can anyone really confirm this. I mean it sounds logical someway, but no climb at all even with full power?

Whats the official procedure to do when having to go around at full flaps?

Thanks

Jan
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: My Friend Crashed His Rented Cessna

Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:43 am

it wont maintain a good climb at all. If you go around with full flaps, you have to decrease the flap setting gradually as you build speed. Of course, you don't want to take off all the flaps, unless you want to be a part of the scenery. With full flaps, there is simply too much drag for the aircraft to climb properly.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
drewwright
Posts: 530
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 3:51 am

RE: My Friend Crashed His Rented Cessna

Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:59 am

On a 172 if you need to do a go around you apply full power. Once you reach about 70 kts you start putting up the flaps one notch at a time. NEVER throw up the flaps all at once or the plane will settle (or worse yet stall), which is just as bad as trying a go around with full flaps. If for some reason the flaps wont retract you better keep the nose down and trade altitude for airspeed. Cessna 172s will climb on full flaps but VERY slowly. I doubt with three people on board that the pilot in the post could even muster a climb at all. I hope that the pilot and passengers will be ok. It is too bad that he/she had to learn the hard way.

DRW
 
kevin82277
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 5:45 am

RE: My Friend Crashed His Rented Cessna

Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:06 am

Working as a baggage handler in CAE once, I noticed on at B1900 that the left main tire was flat. This is an airliner and the FO should have done a walk around. I pointed it out to the captain and the flight was cancelled. Just to show that it doens't always happen to in GA world.

Kevin
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: My Friend Crashed His Rented Cessna

Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:23 am

I hope your friend recovers soon.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

RE: My Friend Crashed His Rented Cessna

Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:43 am

The 172 really doesn't climb too well with flaps 40, especially if you're trying to pull out of a descent. Will it climb at all with Flaps 40 and full power? This depends on your density altitude, but even then it will be at less than 100 feet per minute and it would take quite some time to transition from a 500 feet per minute descent to a climb with flaps 40. You don't have this much time and altitude to spare in a go-around.

However, if you attempth to retract the flaps all at once, the resulting decrease in lift will have a greater effect on your sink rate than the decrease in drag. In effect, you'll sink faster than you would with the flaps still at 40. On go arounds I first apply full power, and right after that I put the flaps up to 20 degrees. To determine when to take out the rest of the flaps, you watch the airspeed indicator. When you get up to about 55 knots go flaps 10 and at 60 go flaps 0.

The 1977 Cessna 172N POH gives the following checlist for a "Balked Landing"

(1) Throttle -- FULL OPEN.
(2) Carburetor Heat -- COLD.
(3) Wing Flaps -- 20 degrees (immediately)
(4) Climb Speed -- 55 KIAS
(5) Wing Flaps -- 10 degrees (until obstacles are cleared)
RETRACT (after reaching a safe altitude and 60 KIAS)

As far as weight and balance, it all depends on how much fuel was in the tanks and how much he and his friends weighed. With only half full tanks you can seat four 170 pound people in most 172's and still be within Center of gravity and weight limits, assuming no baggage. However, at gross the 172 is a bit sluggish on climbout.

I wish your friend a speedy recovery. Everybody makes mistakes, but maybe we can all learn something from your friends misfortune.

[Edited 2003-01-29 22:49:58]