bobcat
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Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:10 am

Should JetBlue be afraid of "Song" by Delta?

For one thing, I know a lot of my business associates
pick JetBlue for the fact that their planes have "live"
DirecTV at every seat... they sometimes even prefer it
over getting upgraded on a competing airline...  Smile

Will "Song" have TVs on the 757s for its passengers?
 
bobcat
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:13 am

nevermind... just found answers to my own questions...

"Song" will indeed have a more advanced live satellite TV
system for each seat: touch-screen, MP3 playback, and
even Pay-Per-View! (wow!)
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:17 am

To get to your original question, I see two concerns for JetBlue: capacity (757 for Song vs. the A320) and financial muscle (Delta as a corporate entitity, albeit one with limited cash).
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
bobcat
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:20 am

From what I've read in Song's press releases, they don't
have plans to go trans-con....(New York to LA/SF area)
Not yet anyway....  Smile

My girlfriend said she like the idea of the new airline...
(but she likes everything that's green) She was surprised
when I told her that Song is supposed to be a low fare
airline. I also think that the amenities available on Song
somehow make the regular Delta seem like cattle cars...  Smile

 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:31 am

It seems to me DL is trying to eliminate B6 from the face of the earth with this...whether they will be successful or not...only time will tell...

Reminds me a lot of when AA flew ORD-DAL with the 56 seat Fokker 100's just to get rid of Legend Airlines...DL seems to be taking a similar approach...

Greg

Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:35 am

Although it is too early to tell, Song has the frequent flyer advantage that is huge. If they can match Jetblue on service, ammenities AND have a FF program, Song will take business away from Jetblue.

 
bobcat
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:44 am

"....DL is trying to eliminate B6 from the face of the earth"

those are really strong words.... but I suspect that may be exactly what Delta execs want....  Smile

It would be interesting to see what JetBlue comes up with to strike back....
 
sllevin
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" B

Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:33 am

I think Song is a recognition that LCC is the wave of the future. Anyone not looking to operate commodity-style, low fare, major market only service. Customers demand low prices and are increasingly unwilling to fly otherwise. I think Delta's wise to start moving itself away from a "conventional" carrier and into a business model that can make money.

Steve
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:34 am

Song does plan to do trans-cons from FLL and MCO in the future. jetBlue is also planning FLL trans-cons.
a.
 
LH423
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:40 am

How bad has air travel gotten when it seems that the "LCC" of an airline will offer better service than the mainline carrier's economy service?  Smile

Anyway. With more insight into DL's plans and services, I don't think DL will knock jetBlue out, but they will hurt them on their Northeast-Florida routes.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
Greg
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:45 am

It would appear that JetBlue has awaken the 900lb gorilla. Clearly, not good news for them.
Fully depreciated 757's will be more than competitive with JetBlues leased 320's.

I imagine there is a market for both....but DL has very, very deep pockets.
 
Dash8King
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:45 am

I think they will kill Jetblue. How many planes does Song plan on operating?
 
FrequentFlier
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 10:07 am

Song will in no way kill JetBlue.

JetBlue has too strong of a reputation to be shot down by such a ridiculous business plan. Song is basically a carbon copy of JetBlue with one problem. As far as I know, all of the employees will be unionized and will, therefore, have certain demands such as pay scale, benefits and hours worked. JetBlue employees, as far as I know, are non-union. While they are treated very well by Mr. Neeleman, they still do not have the demands that a unionized work force has. Song sounds like it means to concentrate on bringing an airline down. Any venture set to shut down an airline is both a ridiculous bully tactic and a dumb business move. JetBlue has a niche in New York-Florida and is developing one on the West Coast. Song will not steal that niche from JetBlue.

JetBlue owns New York.
 
Pilot1113
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 10:27 am

>>As far as I know, all of the employees will be unionized and will, therefore, have certain demands such as pay scale, benefits and hours worked.<<

Only the pilots will be unionized and those will come from Delta mainline. The flight attendents will be low paid and it's expected they will have a high turnover.

- Neil Harrison
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 10:30 am

I smell a bit of Darwinism!!  Big thumbs up
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 10:33 am

FrequentFlier is correct. David Neeleman has prepared for this even before he started jetBlue. That is why his airline still around today. He thought of game plans before the game was even created.

David Neeleman is a social person, and likes to interact with his passengers, while Leo Mullin sits in a desk thinking of ways to kill other competitors

David Neeleman flies jetBlue once a week to check out his airline. Leo Mullin sits in a desk thinking of ways to kill other competitors

David Neeleman actually works for his own airline, and does check-in, baggage handling, flight attendant, and gate agent. Leo Mullin sits in a desk thinking of ways to kill other competitors.

This is just my opinion, and should be accepted as well as the other opinions on this thread.
Puhdiddle
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 10:40 am

At this point, I think JetBlue has achieved a degree of "critical mass" and, absent some dramatic and unexpected events, will be a part of the competetive landscape for the reasonably foreseeable future.

That said, Neeleman's plans rely upon wages and work rules which are dramatically less favorable (to employees) than most of its competitors; that will not last forever. Blue's challenge, then, will be to maintain the harmony through several wage negotiation rounds.

It is in vogue, now, to assert that traditional network carriers are dead behemoths, and indeed some are; but if Delta plans well and executes well, there's no doubt they can be a real force.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
goingboeing
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:37 am

Feeling that airlines within airlines will not succeed, I give to you a verse from an old Who song (those of you over 40 might remember it):

This song is over
I'm left with only tears
I must remember
Even if it takes a million years

The song is over
The song is over

My bet is that Delta will be singing this song by December, 2005.
 
727_Gal
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:49 am

I'm not going to play the funeral march for either jetBlue or Song just yet. Maybe these two can coexist in (relative) harmony? After all, B6 has been around long enough, and is the type of airline where it already has a fairly loyal customer base, I'd imagine. Probably those people will fly Song once to see what it's like, and then they'll either decide to stick with B6 or change over. After all, B6 and Song sound like relatively similar airlines, just like all the majors are, in essence, similar (at least domestically). The majors have managed to coexist, so I feel that these will too.
 
ouboy79
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:39 pm

The features Song will have will be more extensive than JetBlue - for now. As stated...Song will fly paid off 757s with 199 seats and minimum staffing requirements. The comments about unions is totally incorrect and shows a lack of knowledge for Delta - one of the least unionized airlines in the nation. One good thing that may come of this...753s may find yet another home. Anyways...the general thought behind Song has been this will be the future of Delta's domestic mainline product - if it works out. Atlanta has enough "banks" in it right now to just run a rolling hub without the banks...then again Cincinnati isn't far behind, but it is mostly RJs - still between 6-9 flights per day on any one route.

The trumpets are sounding over Fort Widget for the first time in years. Time to see what the old southern belle has in her (most of us know you don't piss off a girl from the south, let alone Georgia.  Big grin ).
 
jrlander
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" B

Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:21 pm

"JetBlue owns New York."

Well... that's a wee bit of an exagerration, now, isn't it? JetBlue is a strong presence in the marketplace, but has a market share that doesn't touch CAL's, AA's, and DAL's. It serves one airport in the city, the other's serve 3. JetBlue is, if I remember, the largest domestic carrier at JFK in terms of passengers, but AA and DAL both have huge international operations there.

JetBlue does not, nor will any one airline, ever "own" NYC.
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:10 pm

The answer to the question in this post?

YES. Be afraid, B6. Be VERY VERY AFRAID.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Seriously though, I think both carriers will coexist just fine. However, B6's party on the East Coast is over. They'll be ok, but they're not going to be the belle of the ball anymore.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:12 pm

"JetBlue owns New York."

Yes, in the same way a flea owns a dog.  Big grin

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
oflove13
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:14 pm

Song is going to use Furlouged delta flight attendants. these flight attendants will have to sign a contract for 2,3 or 5 yrs, but when they do sign on they give back there call back rights, but when there contract is up if there is an opening at mainline delta they will be able to go back.they were looking for 771 f/a's and they got over 2500. I dont think there will be a big turnover rate there, because if they leave they lose there chace to getting back in with delta.
As for unions last time i checked JB was not unionized either, i dont see a big turnover rate there. I think song will give JB a run for there money, ill fly song just because those air buses scare the hell out of me. either way this should be fun to watch
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" B

Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:59 pm

Oflove-

Airbuses scare you?

I've heard it all now.

N
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:00 pm

I dont think this will work, as I have said in other threads.

But lets assume that it does. Lets assume that people flock to them. Lets assume that JetBlue doesn't "die" but does start to hurt and sees them as a real threat. Lets assume that JetBlue even starts to adopt some of their ideas. Heck - lets assume that Jetblue has to pull out of half of its Florida markets. Lets assume that "Song" employees become very loyal and dedicated to its success - just as Southwest's employees are.

As "Song" keeps growing, its culture will become more and more distinct from Delta's. Its employees will see how much better things seem to be working there and see themselves as being a "breed apart" from other Delta employees. Song's management will learn to think more like JetBlue or Southwest's management than like Delta's. When they meet with Delta execs, they will get a growing sense of alienation. When some(or even many) customers start to actually PREFER "Song" to Delta - many Delta employees and managers will become envious and start sticking to their old ways even more stubbornly than before. And as Song becomes less dependent on Delta's network and its frequent fliers, its people will see Delta the same way many people in their 20's see their parents - old, not willing to change, not dedicated enough to the cause, etc, etc.

Suddenly, someone comes up with the bright idea of spinning off Song and pocketing the cash. Or selling it to its management or even its employees. This is done, and you have an instant new competitor. Your baby becomes acompetitor that may even MERGE with another Lo-co and create an even greater threat to you.

Sound familiar? This is what I suspect happened with BA and "Go". BA creates Go. They succeed in replicating all the things that have made the lo-co's succeed. But culture clashes and other compatibility problems force a rift between the new lo-co and its parent. Both see a split as the best solution. The Lo-co ends up merging with a competitor - in the case of "Go" that would be Easyjet.

In short - the only way Song will work is if it more or less becomes completely independent of Delta and builds things from scratch. But if it does this - the benefits it gives to Delta become questionable. If it ends up being sold or spun off (and there are going to be big incentives to do so, particularily if Delta hits major financial trouble or labor strife) even a successful "song" becomes a liability rather than an asset.
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:56 pm

it's amazing to me how much they engineered Song to mimic and iminitate jetblue. everything about it is the same style.

song's pilots will be very expensive unionized delta mainline pilots. wonder how that works out.....

"imitation is the sinceretst form of flattery" anon.

why does delta want to destroy jetblue anyway? so it can get the NY-FL routes back and hike fares? i dont think so. if jetblue dies or goes ill, someone will quickly take its place. delta should just move elsewhere. they can't make money in this market with their high costs.

tnnh
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:58 pm

laslty, who did song's identity? was it landor?

tnnh
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:03 am

jetBlue along with the JFK-SJU flights are making MUCHO money. By July they go up to 5 Daily non-stop flights to SJU from JFK with easy connections to the west coast. The market is big enough to share NYC-FLA but where B6 is making money is the long haul flights westcoast- SJU-. So jetblue will still be around for many moons to come.  Smile
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:52 am

jetBlue along with the JFK-SJU flights are making MUCHO money. By July they go up to 5 Daily non-stop flights to SJU from JFK with easy connections to the west coast. The market is big enough to share NYC-FLA but where B6 is making money is the long haul flights westcoast- SJU-. So jetblue will still be around for many moons to come.

Yep...until Song begins flying those routes, or AA does their own version of Song for the JFK-SJU route.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

The low-cost, high-frequency, no-frills model works in markets with high passenger volume, particularly the leisure ones. The wave of the future for the mainline carriers will be to do exactly what DL is doing...shore up your defenses against the LCCs by using your own equipment to provide similar service in those competitive markets.

They can retain mainline hub-and-spoke service to lesser-traveled citypairs that can only be economically served through their network model. Just let WN or B6 try to provide GRR-LAX service, or SHV-BOS. They can't, and never will.

Hopefully the "Big Six" and their unions will watch the evolution of this DL/Song experiment. If it works, they should emulate that immediately.

It's conceivable that the growth of the LCCs could come to a screeching halt nationwide if the "Big Six" were to implement similar concepts.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
777D
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 1:39 am

If Song does succeed in eliminating Jetblue, Delta will shut down Song and the cost of a ticket will increase a couple hundered percent because Delta did what it wanted to accomplish.

This is why the flying public should support the "true" low cost carriers.

The bottom line is that, the majors want to and will attempt to eliminate the LCC so they continue to over charge and underserve the public. If it wasn't for WN, B6, Air Tran, and etc. imagine what we would be paying to fly.

I hope Jetblue crushes Song!!

777d
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:16 am

This is why the flying public should support the "true" low cost carriers.

What a load of old nonsense. There is no way you can tell the flying public who to support and who not to support. This is capitalism and if Delta and push jetBlue out of the market, fair play to them.

If it wasn't for WN, B6, Air Tran, and etc. imagine what we would be paying to fly.

Yes and imagine all the food and bareable legroom too.

David Neeleman has prepared for this even before he started jetBlue. That is why his airline still around today. He thought of game plans before the game was even created.

David Neeleman is a social person, and likes to interact with his passengers, while Leo Mullin sits in a desk thinking of ways to kill other competitors

David Neeleman flies jetBlue once a week to check out his airline. Leo Mullin sits in a desk thinking of ways to kill other competitors

David Neeleman actually works for his own airline, and does check-in, baggage handling, flight attendant, and gate agent. Leo Mullin sits in a desk thinking of ways to kill other competitors.


What nonsense is this? And what does it have to do with airline success?

He prepared game plans before the game even started? Uh...no. The game stared a LONG time ago and Delta are experienced. jetBlue ISN'T.

Whether he is a sociable person, or whether he flies the airline or talks to the staff is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The fact that Leo Mullin sits behind a desk is probably better. So what if he's trying to destroy the competition? He'll succeed if Neeleman thinks the people side of the business is paramount.
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goingboeing
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:19 am

If it wasn't for WN, B6, Air Tran, and etc. imagine what we would be paying to fly.

Yes and imagine all the food and bareable legroom too.


With all due respect 777236ER, Southwests worst legroom is better than Delta's best coach class legroom. And I don't know about you, but I have yet to taste an airline meal in any class that would be worth $1,000.
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:23 am

If Song does succeed in eliminating Jetblue, Delta will shut down Song and the cost of a ticket will increase a couple hundered percent because Delta did what it wanted to accomplish.

On the contrary, 777d, I fully believe that if Song is successful, DL will examine what other leisure and low-yield, high-frequency markets can better support that product than their mainline service does.

This will enable DL to do a few things:

1. Avoid market share erosion to other LCCs.

2. Avoid carrying low-yield leisure traffic over their hub network.

3. Enable the hub network to be fine-tuned to better serve the network traffic that commands a higher yield.

The public now has this somewhat unrealistic perception that they should never pay more than $299.00 one way for anything, which was created by the "Big Six" attempting to compete with the LCCs for the price-sensitive travelers. The problem was that they were utilizing their hub and spoke network to provide this service, directly alongside or within their mainline product.

Since the mainline network product has an inherently higher cost structure than the point-to-point LCCs do, it's highly uneconomical to carry these leisure fare travelers over the mainline hub network. This is where ideas like Song come in.

You identify the markets that demand and command LCC service that coincide with your traditional markets. You then have your separate but wholly-owned LCC entity start high-frequency service over those point-to-point routes, such as JFK-MCO, JFK-FLL, LGA-FLL, etc.

The result is a VERY high aircraft utilization that isn't dependent on hub traffic, meaning your CASM is extraordinarily low. That enables you to carry the "I won't pay more than $299.00 one way, EVER," crowd and still make money.

It also gets that same crowd off your more expensive mainline network service, allowing that to be better aligned to higher-yield traffic, like the customer flying BOS-SHV.

Bottom line? Assuming Song is a winner, expect to see it and other wholly-owned copycats plying many of the routes where LCCs have been cherry-picking customers from the "Big Six."
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:27 am

With all due respect 777236ER, Southwests worst legroom is better than Delta's best coach class legroom. And I don't know about you, but I have yet to taste an airline meal in any class that would be worth $1,000.

"With all due respect" is a huge cliche. People usually say it before they insult you. Anyway...who knows what the airline industry would be like without LCCs? Almost certainly there would have been better service.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
777D
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:29 am

777236er

Am I forcing people to support Jetblue? What I am advocating is that the flying public should support Jetblue and the LCC for the fact that LCCs do serve a purpose for the flying public. If I can force people to do what I want, wow.......then I would be very powerful.

Yes please imagine what the price of flying would be like if Jetblue did not exist!! You might be able to afford any price for a ticket, but I would assume the many passengers that fly WN, Airtran, Jetblue and etc cannot since they fly the LCCs. Hmmmmm...perhaps the reason they fly those carriers because they are affordable?
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:39 am

With all due respect 777236ER, Southwests worst legroom is better than Delta's best coach class legroom. And I don't know about you, but I have yet to taste an airline meal in any class that would be worth $1,000.

Bingo.

For reasons already stated, I am skeptical of the "airline within an airline" concept. I also think that many people fail to realize the importance of the corporate culture of Southwest and jetBlue. If Song can somehow replicate the same type of culture and instill it in their employees, they will increase the chances of their success, otherwise it will just be business as usual.

Personally, I am pulling for the underdog - jetBlue. After all what is Southwest, but a big underdog? We've had to meet several similar challenges by the "big guys", but our employees' spirit and the brilliance of our executives have helped us prevail.
Patrick Bateman is my hero.
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:49 am

I doubt very much that any major carrier would be so sympathetic to the flying public.

The bottom line is that the majors do not like the low cost carriers that is why they are having their own version of a LCC.

If you think that the majors would continue to have a brand of LCC even if lets say B6, WN, and etc were gone? There is no way they would continue there attempt at goodwill with the public. They would charge what they want to charge, give the service they want to give and dictate to you the price of flying.

From what I have read from A.net, is that there have been studies at airports where there is a dominant carrier vs. an airport with a couple of LCC and their pricing. There is a dramatic price difference. I do apologize I cannot refer to the exact study nor the exact member who brought this to A.net

This does not mean that WN and etc are the cheapest, but they do help a great deal with the flying public.
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:52 am

"With all due respect" is a huge cliche. People usually say it before they insult you.

Absolutely. Just like how "I hate to say it, but.." really means, "It gives me indescribable pleasure to tell you..."  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

And for the record, I'm pulling for Song to succeed. It's about time jetBlue and Southwest got their noses bloodied a bit.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:59 am

And for the record, I'm pulling for Song to succeed. It's about time jetBlue and Southwest got their noses bloodied a bit.  Insane

To borrow from a good ol' Texas colloquialism: "This ain't our first rodeo."

Many have tried, with very little success...
Patrick Bateman is my hero.
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:10 am

To borrow from a good ol' Texas colloquialism: "This ain't our first rodeo."

Many have tried, with very little success...


Statements like that are precisely why some people will quietly cheer for B6 and WN to get slammed a bit. The employees of these two companies, while they provide great products and good service, have an air of smug superiority about them.

It's that we cannot be defeated attitude that makes people want to see them get pummeled.
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Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:37 am

With all due respect" is a huge cliche. People usually say it before they insult you. Anyway...who knows what the airline industry would be like without LCCs? Almost certainly there would have been better service

I'm sorry, did I insult you? If so, please be assured that it wasn't my intent, and if I insulted you personally, please accept my apology.

You pretty much have to define what "service" is, and what a fair price is for that service. I guess I'm not too demanding. "Service" to me is being treated like I paid money for my ticket. Service is welcoming me aboard the plane. Service is providing me some sort of refreshment on board, and service is thanking me for my business. I don't go to a restaurant and expect them to take me to Chicago, nor do I board an aircraft with the expectations of a 5 star dining experience. Southwest has never let me down on service.

But what would life be like without the low fare carriers? I suppose the best example I can give you is from my town (MCI) to STL. Before SWA served that market, TWA was the only game in town. A last minute round trip was $500. Today, it's $150. And since the flying time hasn't changed much from the 45 minutes, the only "service" one got for that price was a coke and a bag of pretzels. Unless you fly in first class, you cannot get a meal on most "major" airlines if your flight is under 4 hours. Your in flight entertainment is very limited on narrow body planes (which serve the bulk of the USA). But, suppose you did get a meal. How much do you feel it is worth? How much is the ability to listen to music or Channel 9 on a UAL narrowbody worth to you? I dunno - flying from MCI-LAX and getting a snack pack, a couple of cokes and being treated like my business was appreciated is something I get on SWA for under $500 round trip. If the "service" was better (meals entertainment, etc.) is that really worth a difference in price of $1,000 to $2,000 roundtrip? IMHO, no it isn't.

Bottom line, I find that on the low fare airlines I get service that is on a par with, or better than, full service airlines. And I sincerely doubt that the higher price I would have to pay if LCC's were not around would not be worth the "improved service" that the airline provided.
 
737doctor
Posts: 1291
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:52 pm

RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of &quot;Song&quot; By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:56 am

Statements like that are precisely why some people will quietly cheer for B6 and WN to get slammed a bit. The employees of these two companies, while they provide great products and good service, have an air of smug superiority about them.

It's that we cannot be defeated attitude that makes people want to see them get pummeled.


Smug? You should see how many AA employees act when they learn I work for Southwest.

And I'm sorry, but you are wrong. We know very well that we can end up like so many past airlines now defunct. At the University for People (a training facility in DAL), we have a mock graveyard with the names of defunct carriers on the headstones. However, one of the headstones is blank, which means that if we aren't careful, one day it could be US.

Having said that, Southwest employees have every right to be proud. Herb & Co had to fight in the courts just to get us off the ground and we have had to stave off numerous attempts by others to kill us. Every day, those of us in the trenches work hard to provide the best service we can to the flying public and keep our company profitable.

So, if being proud of providing a quality low-cost alternative to air travel and giving people, who once couldn't afford it, the "freedom to fly" are reasons that we should "get pummeled", then I guess we're guilty as charged.

[Edited 2003-01-30 19:58:20]
Patrick Bateman is my hero.
 
777D
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:27 pm

RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:59 am

well said 737doctor.
 
Guest

RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 4:00 am

cool logo:

 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 13438
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 4:51 am

So, if being proud of providing a quality low-cost alternative to air travel and giving people, who once couldn't afford it, the "freedom to fly" are reasons that we should "get pummeled", then I guess we're guilty as charged.

Wow, I could almost hear "America, the Beautiful" in the background as I read your long-winded diatribe!  Insane

I don't have a problem with ANY airline being proud of their record. Being boastful is entirely different. No one likes a braggart.

I think it's great when a Southwest or jetBlue employee says they really love their company. I very much dislike it when they follow that up with, "(insert airline other than WN or B6 here) just doesn't get it. Their people don't care. They mug the consumer," etc.

Unfortunately, a good deal of these LCC employees are very vocal in that very negative way.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Delta15
Posts: 561
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 1999 5:32 am

RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 5:48 am

screw the true "low-cost carriers," they just got my mom layed off
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 5:54 am

Someday Delta 15, you'll realize that the low cost carriers most likely were responsible for your moms job in the first place. They made it possible for more people to travel. When more people travel, airlines need more people to work for them. When the economy shifts and the "full service" carriers cannot adapt, then it's their fault that she got laid off.
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:34 am

who knows what the airline industry would be like without LCCs? Almost certainly there would have been better service.

I find that LCC's have way better service at least with friendly F/A's.
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

RE: Should JetBlue Be Afraid Of "Song" By Delta?

Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:41 am

who knows what the airline industry would be like without LCCs? Almost certainly there would have been better service.

If by "better service" you mean more of that rank food that induces vomiting the moment its odor penetrates your nostrils, then I agree.

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