johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:51 pm

(...) Lufthansa said it will cut more than 100 flights on domestic and intra-European routes and eliminate first class on intercontinental routes where faltering demand no longer makes premium service commercially viable. Along with previously announced capacity cuts and retirement of nine aircraft (ATWOnline, Jan. 22), the airline said that on Feb. 1 it will suspend services between Munich and London City and on its Stuttgart-Geneva route.

Also, with the changeover to the new timetable the following routes will be withdrawn: Dortmund-Zurich, Hanover-Milan Malpensa, Cologne-Dresden, Cologne-Friedrichshafen, Cologne-Stuttgart and Munster/Osnabruck-Zurich.

Expanding on previous decisions, from March Atlanta flights will have only economy and business cabins, with Caracas, Cairo and some flights to New York to follow.
LH scrapped first class in early Jan. between Frankfurt and Philadelphia and Boston. It said the two-class configuration on selected routes will enable better use of capacity and allow it "to operate more profitably." It intends to increase ASKs 8% on long-haul services from March 31 and 3% on European routes over the previous year's summer timetable.

http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=2703

----

on a sidenote, i kept looking for additional A332 destinations but so far i had no look. obviously, they will now operate to the abovementioned destinations.

cheers
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
764
Posts: 486
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2001 6:34 pm

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:59 pm

Actually as far as I know, service to the British Isles will also be reduced (not necessarily a smart decision). Furthermore, markets like DUS are most likely going to see further cuts as well as Lufthansa is more agressively than ever trying to move all traffic through their hubs in Frankfurt and Munich.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:01 pm

JFK is getting the A332 in the not too distant future - I saw it as an option whilst planning something or other the other day.

How many 332s did they lease?

N
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:48 pm

I already noticed the withdrawal of the CGN-FDH flight yesterday evening when I was checking Galileo for flights to Lake Constance in December. Seems like I'll have to find another way to visit my friends later this year - however, driving by car or train for six to eight hours doesn't appeal to me that much.  Sad
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:58 pm

Gigneil, LH leases 5 A332s as well as 2 A342s, asll ex-SN and ex-SR aircraft. at one point, they were also believed to lease an additional two A342s from OS, however, this deal didn´t surface.
in addition, Condor is supposed to operate two 763s on behalf of LH this summer. i assume this is to cover the failed lease of the two OS aircraft.
i might be wrong, though, nothing has been officially relayed to the media.

cheers
daniel

If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
vfw614
Posts: 3168
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RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Thu Jan 30, 2003 7:06 pm

None of the routes that will be scrapped are, by the way, operated by Lufthansa mainline or Lufthansa Cityline:

Munich-London City: Augsburg Airways DHC8-400
Stuttgart-Geneva: Contactair Fokker 50
Dortmund-Zurich: Eurowings ATR42-500
Munster/Osnabruck-Zurich: Eurowings ATR42-500
Hanover-Milan Malpensa: Eurowings CanRJ200
Cologne-Dresden: Eurowings ATR72
Cologne-Friedrichshafen: Eurowings ATR42
Cologne-Stuttgart: Contactair Fokker 50

Three more routes will see the axe as well:
Augsburg - Frankfurt: Augsburg Airways DHC8-300
Augsburg - Dusseldorf: Augsburg Airways DHC8-300
Augsburg - Berlin THF: Augsburg Airways DHC8-300

this resulting in the complete withdrawal of Lufthansa from Augsburg (40miles west of Munich)

To put the things into perspective, it must be said, however, that...

... the thrice daily Cologne - Dresden ATR service will be replaced by a twice daily Germanwings service, resulting in more capacity on the route (290 seats vs. 200).

... Cologne - Stuttgart was earmarked for scrapping a long time ago because of the new high speed train link between Cologne and Frankfurt/Stuttgart. Travel time by train, downtown to downtown, is now a mere 135 minutes and air travel is no longer competitive, given the times required for transfer to the airports, check-in, flight-times etc.

... Stuttgart - Geneva was taken over from defunct Swisswings last year and a 50 seater on the route probably was simply too much capacity (Swisswings had 31seat Dorniers).

What really hurts is the complete withdrawal from Augsburg and the closure of the last international route from Dortmund. At a time, Dortmund had international services by home-based Eurowings to London, Paris, Amsterdam, Milan and Zurich and in April 2003, all that remains are feeders to Frankurt and Munich. Really sad that airlines that grew at Augsburg and Dortmund to become major European regionals now will disappear from their home base completely or only provide a core feeder service for Lufthansa.

Cologne/Bonn, on the other hand, is beginning to pay the price for becoming Germany's main LCC airport. It has lost Portugalia (to LIS) this month, lost international Lufthansa Cityline services to MAD, BCN, MXP, VIE last October when Germanwings started to serve those destinations and will loose three domestic Team Lufthansa services in April. Air France, Alitalia etc. disappeared in 2001, and it will probably only be a question of time before Lufthansa Cityline will axe LHR, ZRH and CDG. Finally, once the AirRAIL high speed train concept is well established, it will be the death bell ringing for CGN - FRA where Lufthansa is already beginning to scale down capacity. It will be interesting to see what the future holds for CGN....
 
TriStar500
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Thu Jan 30, 2003 7:19 pm

Just a minor correction, CGN-FDH is operated by Contactair F-50.

It is also debatable wether a complete withdrawal of CGN-FRA is a realistic scenario. Despite an established AIRail service between STR and FRA, LH still sees a necessity to operate a few flights betwen these cities as certain customer groups (e.g. inbound passengers from overseas) are hesitant to use the train instead of the plane.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Thu Jan 30, 2003 7:46 pm

Tristar500 just mentioned an interesting point concerning the rail link between FRA and CGN (FRA and STR). if all air services are to be entirely withdrawn in the end, remains to be seen. that´s what is planned and i think that will eventually happen because these slots can certainly be used more profitably. however, there are two additional points why LH might not be doing so in the close future, which i´d like to add.

on the one hand, these services are still operated to preserve valuable slots which LH would probably lose if they didn´t fill the void with other flights. on the other hand, withdrawing all air services between CGN and FRA would make the CGN market even more prone to KLM and its network. they operate four daily flights, albeit turboprops, to connect CGN via AMS to its worldwide network.


i do not know how the booking figures and yields look on CityLine´s current services out of CGN.
i flew CGN-CDG and back in November, both flights seemed to have a very decent load, in both classes. in fact, there was no open seat on the first flight with 28 in business (!!!) and 20 in eco. and already, there was 4U operating its services to CDG. (well, this might have been just one-off)
granted, at that time 4U was not as established as today, and the booking figures might look totally different today. i really can´t imagine the CLH is doing so well out of CGN, but probably no one of us can say for sure. their future development at CGN will be very interesting.
still, i believe they will always have a decent number of services out of CGN due to the fact that that´s where their maintenance is located. their HAM and MUC mx bases will obviously play a larger role in the future, but they can´t do all of the work...

i would love to see their figures on the LHR, ZRH and CDG runs!

cheers
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
vfw614
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Thu Jan 30, 2003 7:46 pm

Well, I remember a year ago or so one of the Lufthansa top brass guys was interviewed and he said the mid-term plan was to get rid off flights from Frankfurt to Stuttgart, Nuremberg and Cologne/Bonn and possibly Duesseldorf once high-speed train services are available. I guess it is more a question of releasing slots at Frankfurt for long-haul flights than a matter of principle for Lufthansa - they offer connections from Munich to nearby Nuremberg and Stuttgart (although OTOH MUC has neither a railway station (except for lacal trains) nor is part of the high speed train system).

I see your point that it might be difficult to convince passengers from overseas to take the train but it seems to work reasonably well in Switzerland and France where there is a close co-operation between the national railway operator and the national flag carrier. Once more long-hauls are established at Munich, Lufthansa could always offer a conncetion through Munich for those few who refuse to be taken by a state-of-the-art high speed train to Cologne downtown in 57 minutes - less time than I have spent on occasions circling in holding patterns above FRA on my 80nm flight from CGN.
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Thu Jan 30, 2003 8:00 pm

The slot situation at FRA will improve after the new RWY is opened in 2006/7, so the need to hold on to slots will be reduced at least for an intermediate time frame until the new RWY capacities are stacked up again after 2012/ 2015 or so.

I see a definite future of the intermodality concept (i.e. combining plane and train into one seamless transportation process) here in Germany - and I better should, since basically one of my work focusses lies in this field. Big grin Like Vfw614 said, it has been working in Switzerland for more than a decade now.

However, there are still a few obstacles to be overcome, e.g. we need to develop and implement a nationwide consistent travel product which guarantees passengers a hassle-free transfer between plane and train at the airport, the transportation of their luggage to and from remote check-in and baggage claim facilities at major train stations and an improvement of service and information for passengers on the train and at the stations. IMO, LH is slowly but steady moving into the right direction with their AIRail product.
But I think we're getting off-topic now. Big grin
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
swiss-airplane
Posts: 557
Joined: Wed May 03, 2000 3:08 pm

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Thu Jan 30, 2003 10:02 pm

Strange fact is that Lufthansa City Line already reduced capacity on the CGN-Zürich flight, while Swiss have increased capacity to 5 daily flights. Swiss wants to increase market share in Germany and they will use bigger aircrafts for flights to Germany.
We will see....
however I heard once that Lufthansa is loosing money within Germany, so I'm sure we will see more cuts of routes.
greets
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Fri Jan 31, 2003 5:21 pm

concerning the possibly misleading threat topic i should add that these additional flights without First Class service do not necessarily need to be A332 aircraft, they could still be the leased A342 aircraft.

cheers
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
sr176
Posts: 337
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2001 11:11 pm

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Fri Jan 31, 2003 5:30 pm

It seems that MUC - BRN also goes from 3 to 2 daily. This affects Augsburg Airways as well.
 
Marco
Posts: 4005
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Sat Feb 01, 2003 8:15 am

How is LH doing on the YYZ-FRA route?

Thanks in advance!
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
Guest

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Sat Feb 01, 2003 9:02 am

FRA-JFK's A332 service will be a new, 3rd daily flight.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Sat Feb 01, 2003 3:48 pm

Just FYI - the leased A330s and A340s from SN and SR include 2 343s, not 2 342s.

Just checked on the Airbus Asset Management site.

N
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Sat Feb 01, 2003 4:48 pm

Just as a side note:

LH will dramtically increase intercontinental, european and domestic traffic out of MUC with a addtional 200+ flights a week in the summer. This includes increasing the number of banks from 6 to 8.

SailorOrion
 
flyguy1
Posts: 1660
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 1999 9:45 am

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Sun Feb 02, 2003 1:13 am

The third FRA-JFK flight is always operated during the summer travel season. Interesting is that JFK will receive all 3 LH long haul types:
A330
A340
747
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
by738
Posts: 2422
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Sun Feb 02, 2003 4:15 am

Did the Munich Glasgow route get announced as predicted ?
 
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chrisnh
Posts: 3350
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

RE: Lufthansa Route Cuts And New A332 Destinations

Sun Feb 02, 2003 4:20 am

given the fact that LH is continuing Boston-Munich through the winter implies that the route has done very, very well. I was very skeptical at first, given the nature of the route (a poster child for 'long-and-thin') and the nature of the economy (going south). Evidently, I underestimated the strength of this route, especially if LH is continuing it rather than abandoning it this time of year. Anyone at LH able to validate the strength of this route?

Chris in NH

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