slawko
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Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sat Feb 01, 2003 10:39 am

The latest YYZ news is reporting that Air Transat is currently evaluationg both the Airbus and Boeing option for it's fleet revitalization. If they go with Boeing the 767-300ER and 757-200ER are the likely candidates....an announcement is expected in the next few weeks...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
flyyul
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:04 am

Interesting..

Boeing all the way!!

Mark
 
spyderz
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:09 am

Interesting that Transat would go with the 767-300ER as it wouldn't have the capacity that Transat requires on their trans-Pacific flights as well as their larger southern destinations. Possibly they plan to keep the 330's and use the replacements for the Tristars, 310's, and 757's.
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:35 am

Do I smell 777's??????????
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
SegmentKing
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:41 am

the 310s and 330s are quite new. I think Transat is looking at getting rid of the L10's and 757s...

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:17 pm

There was talk about getting other 757's, eventhough they want to get rid of the current 757's. The A310's are new to the fleet, but TS is unhappy with them. There have been too many maintenance issues with them and also they are using more fuel than estimated. I believe FedEx is interested in them.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
flyyul
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:19 pm

Nuno,

Thank you for the inside scoop..... where exactly did you get this ? Big grin

Mark
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:43 pm

Sorry, I musn't reveal this inside scoop of mine.  Big grin
But I have heard it from a number of good sources.  Smile I do forget where I heard the FedEx rumour though, but the others are from veeeeeeeeery good sources!

Didn't I say a long time ago that TS was talking to Boeing, and looking at the 777 too? Well ... things are progressing, at least on talks with Boeing.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sat Feb 01, 2003 2:52 pm

Man, we need more Boeings in Canada!

The 752/753/763/764 would be the perfect fleet for TS!

 Smokin cool

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sat Feb 01, 2003 3:48 pm

Neil,

Since when does a formidable athlete like you smoke?

 
gigneil
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sat Feb 01, 2003 3:52 pm

I hardly think ordering the aging 757/767 would be a prudent course of action.

737-800/900s and the new 7E7, or A321s and A332s would be a much better choice.

N
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 12:11 am

321 is useless for Transat's operation they dont have the range, and would be much to restricted going down south, and you can't go to Europe with them...The 757/767 combo would be ideal, I think. I dont know why you call the 75/76 aging....they are still produced, and avionics have been upgraded since the 80's!!! The 737-700 could also be an option for some of the smaller destinations in the south....But who knows...it will all be clear in a few weeks...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 1:55 am

Yes, ordering the 7E7 would be great ... but that's waaaaaaaaaaaaay into the future! Might as well order the Sonic Cruiser too.

I think in the mean time, the 777 isn't out of the question, and even the 764, and 763ER. It would be really nice to see the 753 in Canada too!
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
747-451
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:09 am

Air Transat will probably buy Airbus. there is no such thing as "new Boeing airliner orders" coming from Canada. With that aside, I can see A330's and A340's in the fleet with short range flights handled by A321's and 757's (picked up on the used market.).
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:35 am

WestJet orders many brand new Boeing jetliners! And don't discount the possibility of Air Transat going Boeing. Outside logic would say they'd get Airbus, but rumours from the company suggest Boeing. Only time will tell.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:41 am

Most of the WJ 73G orders are via leasing companies, just like the new TS 332's.

Hopefully TS will stick with a mixed fleet of old & new aircraft as their yields are low. Many a previous charter airline loaded up with new aircraft exclusively only to go bankrupt. The L15 should be the ideal aircraft for TS ops for the next 5-7 years.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
fallingeese
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 9:33 am

Yyz717 - about half of Westjet's 737-700's are owned (all of the ones with a tail number 2XX are owned by the company). If you get the pleasure of flying a Westjet owned 737-700, they are incredable. The leather seats with adjustable headrests are the most confortable economy seat around, not to mention the great fares.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 10:39 am

11 of 13 73G's delivered to WJ by end of 2002 are leased from GE. The other 2 appear to be owned (or leased directly from Boeing).
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
dripstick
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 10:59 am

Of Westjet's current NG's, 10 are leased and 5 are owned, so yeah, Canada does have airlines that BUY aeroplanes from Boeing...thank God!

I would love to see Transat B767s as they DO glide very well.

Dripstick
What's another word for thesaurus?
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 11:02 am

Do you think Pichet would have made it in a Boeing? Captain Pearson probably didn't glide as long as Pichet did, so I still think the A330 is king of gliders! (plastic helps in this regard).
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
fallingeese
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 11:05 am

I wonder if Air Canada would atleast refund the fuel surcharge if one of it's aircraft had to glide in? lol....
I doubt it would be too hard to find a buyer for the A330's if they decide to go Boeing.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
dripstick
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 11:05 am

Do you think Pichet would have landed in Gimli?  Big thumbs up

He would have turned it around and headed east.
What's another word for thesaurus?
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 1:22 pm

Do you think that TS will addopt the same philoshpy and buy some "ROCK SOLID" 767 like they bought the L-1011's? I think this is the reason that they have been able to stay profitable over the years and most of all stay in business. As well TS has been able to offer competitive rates over the years. If they can get like half of the fleet owned, this will help in the long run. I think Neil is right, keep the L's as long as possible, run them into the ground further...I was on C-FTSW and its in bad shape on the inside, but hey, i got home and i had fun riding the classic. Maybe these free aircraft can make money to purchase a sllightly mature 67 with lots of life left in it. Look at Air Canada's 762's, the low 600 fin #'s....they are the work horse of domestic travel in Canada now. For AC, atleast in my time, the 67 has been the most versitile and succsessful aircraft for them. GO BOEING, It makes sense if the price is right.

Sorry Captian, I don't think the 777 is a posibility right now....maybe in the long run, OR, if they try and make the YYZ-DEL flight work, a 777-2LR could be in the works? Or even YYZ-SYD??

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
transswede
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:35 pm

777's sounds very unlikely for a charter ailrine - which Air Transat mostly is if I'm not mistaken. In fact, I can't think any charter airline in the world operates a 777 - except perhaps Lauda. Do they count as charter?

Anyway, what older planes in their fleet does this fleet renewal effort cover? I'm just wondering, because replacing their A330's with 767's sounds farfetched...
 
BWIA330
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:46 pm

I have a feeling they would just go along with the Airbus once again. More Airbus A330's and possibly A340's for new long haul routes. Just my opinion.

Actually yeah Lauda is a charter airline and they do operate the 777. But the thing is they are now getting Airbus A330-200's, Im not sure if they are giving up the 777's for A332's. Also dont forget Air Europe, which also flies the 777 and is charter.

Regards,

BWIA330
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm

The 772 and 343 would be an expensive mistake for TS. Moreover, the 343 would introduce another new engine type into the fleet.

Given their recent addition of the 332/333/313, an all-Airbus fleet seems likely.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:08 pm

There are way too many A330's/A340's flying to Toronto and Montreal.

Between Swiss, Austrian, Air Canada, Air Transat, Skyservice, Air France also CSA in the near-future, Cathay, Lufthansa.....

Send us BOeing's.. please..

Did you guys like that Lauda B763? It was a beauty..

Mark
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:12 pm

no, we need more Douglas airplanes! I think TS should get some apparatuses!

MD-11's like the rumours from last year suggested
MD-95's for domestic and Caribbean/Florida/Mexico flights
MD-10's just to be different, and for routes with slightly lower demand!  Smile
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
747-451
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:35 pm

OMG, I had to pick myself up off the floor..Westjet actually may own a 737! Let's hear it for our major trading partner in the north! guess maybe their board isn't made up exlusively of Quebecois...

I think that the A321 would be a choice for Air Transat. they could certainly use it like some of the US carriers do, such as squeeze as many people onto it in "cattle class" and use narrow bodies on as long a flight as passengers can tolerate.

Silliness aside, I think Air Transat would be better off getting planes on the used/ lease market since very few airlines that glut themselves with completley new fleets are successful (look at USAir, financial failure after going hog wild on a new plane spending spree)...

As far as C-FTSW being long in the tooth, you haven't seen flying wrecks unless you flew on ANY of the former Nationair Canada DC-8's, talk about waiting for the wreckinbg ball!
 
flyyul
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:37 pm

Transat was supposed to get an MD11 from World Airways, on a lease basis, not sure if it was for summer 2001 or 2002...

Imagine TS MD11's  Nuts

WOW!

Mark
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:37 pm

Just for the record the WJ 73G's that have tail numbers 2XX (the ones with the leather seats  Smokin cool ) are the owned ones. The first 10 are leased. I remember working on the ramp here in YYC when Tail #201 pulled into a gate for the first time  Smile

As for TS, I hope they go with Boeing. As Neil said, we need more Boeings up here!

Kris
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 4:13 pm

The TS MD-11 2002 summer lease obviously fell thru.

Damn! Can you imagine? A Canadian apparatus -11?!?!?!?!

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 4:28 pm

It was really hard to see Sabena (it was tough to see SN go down for sure), and Swissair switch from apparatus to plastic...

KLM also now flies a combo of apparatus and Jumbo.... until the 777 comes for Nov... which is better than plastic.

Mark
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 4:37 pm

Maybe TS is restructuring....I think this move will dictate the future of TS. I mean right now they can get rid of what i am sure are expensive A330's or keep them and replace the A313's with the 67, as Nuno said, Fedex is interested in them? I am sure that there are a few 757's that they can get their hands on, even though they had some, new deals can be negotiated!!

Airbus is winning right now, but don't count out our North American friend, the all metal, BOEING!

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Sun Feb 02, 2003 4:40 pm

I'm sick of all this f#%$ing plastic!

I think AC should roll over their fleet with the 717, 73G, 738, 752/753, 764, 772/773.

Incidently, the 7th AC 744 will be re-joining the fleet in April! It was returned to the lessor in Sept but will be back for the summer sked! A shining glimmer of metal in a sea of plastic.





I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Mon Feb 03, 2003 12:39 am

Now tell us how you really feel Neil!! ( I Agree totally!!)

In my opinion the only way that TS will be able to pick up new airlplanes, is if they are offered on either a power-by-the-hour lease, or if Boeing can match/beat Airbus' current deal. Boeing capital has been very good to the likes of Westjet and Jetsgo, and I'm sure they would be very happy to make a deal with Transat. They are afterall the countries second largest carrier (I think still) There are a lot of aircraft that have gone from Seattle directly to Arizona because their owners are unable to use them, and I would imagine it is these kinds of aircraft that Boeing is offering to Transat.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Mon Feb 03, 2003 12:53 am

I am obviously new on the scene but how did TS get the L-1011's in the first place....i know how, but did they just pay cash for them when delivered, or did they lease to own? Could they do this to newer aircraft....maybe the apperatus MD-11?

I know that they have 757 pilots....how similar is the 57 to the 67, from what i know, they are quite similar. From a training stand point, that could be very attractive, such as an all airbus fleet is as well.

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Mon Feb 03, 2003 12:57 am

Grant it takes 1 day to learn the 767 from the 757, Royal used to run the one day conversion course, I think it cost liek $100bucks or something like that...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:13 am

Right Slawko. I agree that too many airlines in the past have gone wild getting brand new airplanes with very expensive leases. Any sort of downturn and the airlines can't afford the leases, and go out of business. A mix of old and new is a very smart business decision for a low cost or charter airline such as Air Transat.

However, let's look at some facts: Air Transat just had a profitable year. They are obviously doing well considering the mounting losses elsewhere in the industry. Air Transat has also been around for 15 years, and they've been able to grow their bank account accordingly. If there is a good time to acquire new airplanes, this is it. As Slawko said, there are many new airplanes sitting in the desert, as well as many airlines getting rid of nearly new airplanes.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:24 am

Just wanted to point out that eventually all WJ 73NG's will be owned by WJ, the only reason teh first ten were leased is because when the order was placed the production line was backlogged, and boeing could not provide the aircraft when WJ wanted them, so they worked out a deal with GECAS to lease the first few planes while their own aircraft were being built...all future NG's going to Westjet should be direct from the factory deliveries, and not via GECAS or ILFC....
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Mon Feb 03, 2003 2:55 am

That's interesting Slawko. I got from JP Fleets update which showed 11 leased from GE to end of 2002 with most of the remaining also to be leased. Whatever.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Mon Feb 03, 2003 2:57 am

Great minds clash?



filler
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Mon Feb 03, 2003 3:07 am

Grant, TS started in 1987 with 2 ex-AC L10's. If you look closely, the original livery was similar to AC's: the same cheatline & coloured tail was used, the colour just changed from red to blue.


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Robert M. Campbell
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Photo © Gary Watt



Then they picked up a few more L10's and then 3 ex-AC 722's. They then added the 752 which had the RR engine commonality with the L10. From there, they added the L15 before adding the plastic crap we see now.

Neil.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
SegmentKing
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Mon Feb 03, 2003 5:49 am

trust me on this one: TS will NOT get the A321.

Air Canada has to weight restrict most of it's FLL-YYZ-FLL flights w/ the A321... and that's like a 1300 mile trip......... imagine if it were a YVR-CUN flight....

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
flyyul
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:04 am

Exactly,

The A321 barely does YULYVR with a full load.....

Again the A321 a cheap derivative a real-machine, the B757..

Mark
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:09 am

Again the A321 a cheap derivative a real-machine, the B757..

I agree. Instead of ordering the 321, I think AC should have bought the 752/753. It would have had commonality with the 767 fleet. It also could have been used for transatlantic flights in the winter when loads are low from YYZ, YOW, YUL, etc.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
AC320
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:15 am

the A321 can do 3,000nm/5,550km with full pax according to Airbus, surely FLL-YYZ is well within that range
fuddle duddle
 
brons2
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:20 am

Wow, I never knew you Canucks were such Airbus bashers...lol!!!

Why is it that you call Douglas planes "apparatus"? I don't get it how that contrasts with "plastic". I would think "metal" would contrast with "plastic" better.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
flyyul
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:20 am

The 757 is the work-horse of many fleets. AA, DL, NW all have very dependent on the 757, and CO to a certain extent.

Im proud to be associated with CO, a NON-plastic airline Big grin

Mark
 
flyyul
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RE: Air Transat Fleet Renewal!

Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:46 am

"the A321 can do 3,000nm/5,550km with full pax according to Airbus, surely FLL-YYZ is well within that range"

-The A321 has serious range/load limitations given unstable weather, unfavorable winds, or excess in load estimates.

AC cannot fill up a YULYVR fligh to the brim due to this problem.

At NW, I have never seen a 757 suffer a weight-restriction or anything remotely related.

Mark