FLYING MACHINE
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Space Shuttle Enterprise

Sun Feb 02, 2003 10:59 pm

The Space Shuttle fleet where 6 "space machines". We know how ended the Challenger and Columbia but I remember one shuttle named Enterprise.What happened whit this one?
 
L-188
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Sun Feb 02, 2003 11:01 pm

Smithsonian has it.

Techically it isn't a shuttle but an "aerodynamic prototype" for one.

It was only intended for glide testing and never flew into space since it lacks the systems.
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PW100
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 12:38 am

Enterprise [as I understand it] was a full scale drop-test vehicle, launched from the NASA 747. It was also used as a mock up to test all sorts of components and assembly procedures, including stack up of the complete vehicle assembly in the VAB [Vehicle Asembly Building], and to test trailer and launch pad items/procedures.
It is, and can't be converted to a space going vehicle.

PW100
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STT757
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:03 am

It's at Dulles airport where it will become part of the new Smithsonian musuem there, I watched it arrive on a 747 back when I was living in Virginia about 16-17 years ago.
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TWFirst
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:08 am

I believe the only 2 fully operational shuttles left are Atlantis and Discovery.

But I could be mistaken.
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HlywdCatft
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:09 am

Wierd, I was just talking to someone about the Enterprise yesterday too. They didn't believe me that there was such a Shuttle called that.

Yes it was only launched off of the 747 a couple of times at Edwards.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:10 am

What is the 6th Shuttle?

Enterprise
Challenger
Columbia
Discovery
Atlantis

what is the 6th?
 
sptv
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:11 am

I believe there's a third, ENDEAVOR.
 
toady
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:12 am

6th shuttle: Endeavour
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:14 am

Atlantis, Discovery & Endeavour are the only three operational shuttlecrafts left. Enterprise is the prototype, and cannot be a space-vehicle. She wasn't built to withstand the travels & stress of space flight. Regards.
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Trident
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 2:41 am

It was originally intended that Enterprise (c/n OV-100) would be totally refurbished and made space worthy after the drop and glide tests in 1977. Another Shuttle (OV-099) was built as a Static Test Article (STA) and was used for heat and vibration tests in 1978/79. When the costs of getting Enterprise ready for space were calculated, it was decided that OV-099 would be cheaper and easier to make spaceworthy. OV-099 became Challenger.

Top be honest, costs and budget considerations have played far to large a role in determining many aspects of the Shuttle programme. Decisions made 30 years ago are coming home to roost.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 2:55 am

Way back in 1984, I remember seeing the "Enterprise" at the New Orleans World's Fair. I was only 5 at the time, but I recall how popular it was...it was all lit up at night, very gorgeous sight. It had it's own exhibit there, and it stayed for the entire 6 month duration of the fair.

Steve in New Orleans (Space Camp graduate: class of 1989)  Smile
 
hmmmm...
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 3:06 am

Here's a scan of an old post card I got from the JFK space center back in 1980, before the very first launch. Note that the plane was an ex-American 747.


An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
deltairlines
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 3:30 am

When I went to Cape Canaveral in 1997, I remember there being a space-shuttle on display for visitors to enter. I know it was not one of the then-four spaceworthy (Columbia, Endeavor, Atlantis, Discovery), so was it the Enterprise or did NASA just create a mock-up for this?

Jeff
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 3:35 am

NASA has a full-scale mockup on display at the Marshall Space Flight Center near the Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville, AL. The given name to this shuttle is "Pathfinder."
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Trident
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 3:55 am

The Shuttle at the Kennedy Space Centre is also a full size mock up. Enterprise is held in reserve for the National Air and Space Museum.
 
Salina Chan
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 3:59 am

this is a list of all shuttle(-like) vehicles which are out there, the one at KSC is the Explorer

http://aesp.nasa.okstate.edu/fieldguide/pages/orbiter/index.html

Salina
 
backfire
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 4:03 am

Don't forget Buran, the Russian shuttle clone which flew (unmanned) from the Energia launch vehicle.
 
FLYING MACHINE
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 5:43 am

Thank you for your reply !
Flying Machine.
 
clipper471
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 8:20 am

According to this morning's San Antonio newspaper there was a 7th shuttle.

"Pathfinder" (1977) was a 75-ton steel mock-up used to work out procedures for moving and handling the shuttle. A japanese businessman spent $1 million modifying it to look more like a shuttle and displayed it at a Tokyo exposition. Now it is on display at the space museum in Huntsville, Alabama.
 
hmmmm...
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 8:40 am

My link for my Enterprise postcard scan did not work, so try this one.


Shuttle Enterprise leaving the 747

An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 8:44 am

Here are the shuttle names

Operational:
Endeavour, Atlantis, Discovery

Mock up:
Explorer (KSC), Enterprise(Test Vehicle), Pathfinder (MSC)

Lost:
Challenger, Columbia

[Edited 2003-02-03 00:44:50]
Puhdiddle
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 9:42 am

The shuttles in order of their entry into service are/were:

1). Columbia
2). Challenger
3). Discover
4). Atlantis
5). Endeavor - Replacement for the Challenger

The Enterprise was a prototype.

ContinentalEWR
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 10:08 am

So the Endeavor was built post 1986?

How often is it used? I don't recall hearing it used much.
 
brons2
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 10:09 am

My link for my Enterprise postcard scan did not work, so try this one.


Shuttle Enterprise leaving the 747


Did anyone else notice the additional tail piece on that 747?
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DeltaAir
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 10:19 am

Endeavor was built in 1991 as a replacement for the Challenger.

If NASA does get a boost in funds, which it needs, hopefully it will go towards the development of the new shuttle and not the reproduction of a 1960s design.
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 11:36 am

Endeavor has flown often over the last few years, especially since Columbia was in 'depot' for the last 17 months for upgrade.

Sidenote: There are several shuttle mock ups in Houston at KSC. There is the full scale mockup inside used for trainging, and a full scale crew cabin trainer as well. Not to mention what is over at Ellington field in the Sonny Carter 'dunk tank' trainer. I have been in these on several special tours as a ROTC cadet and once with my aunt who works there. There is also a full scale underwater ISS and one in building 9.

Released a few days before this incident there is a 500 million Dollar increase in the 04 fiscal budget presented by the President.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Lt-AWACS, Hail Columbia
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shaun3000
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 11:45 am

Regarding the 747:

As far as I know, they still use that 747, but have finally repainted the entire thing.

The tail piece is still on the 747. It is there because of the turbulence created by the shuttle when riding piggy-back.
 
shaun3000
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 11:49 am

I was reading the page linked by Salina Chan and noticed this bit next to Challenger: Not on public display - stored in underground missle silo

Anyone have any more information on this? How much of it did they recover? And why a missile silo?
 
Navion
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Mission Count Per Shuttle

Mon Feb 03, 2003 11:56 am

Columbia flew 28 missions (she was refit extensively 2 years ago), Challenger flew 10 missions, Discovery has flown 30 missions, Atlantis has flown 26, and Endeavour has flown 19. Hope this helps.
 
b757300
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 11:59 am

They recovered a very large amount of Challenger, probably far more than will ever be found of Columbia. Challenger, exploded @ a much lower altitude and it was fairly easy to see where the debris fell. There was a show on the History Channel a while back about the Challenger and from what I remember, the reason the remains are stored in a missile silo is simple security. NASA doesn't really know what to do with it and they needed to keep it safe. They don't want to sell it for scrap but also don't want to put it on display. An old silo @ Cape Canaveral seemed like as good of a place as any to store it.
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Lt-AWACS
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:26 pm

anyone remember the big pieces of Challenger that washed ashore around 1996. Sad.

Sidentoe II: ONe of the original 'Vomit comits' KC-135s is on static now at the front gate of Ellington Field, in Houston.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Lt-AWACS, Hail Columbia
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coboeing777
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:36 pm

Lt-AWACS...

1996?? Did you mean to say 1986 or did pieces really wash up 10 yrs later? I can't imagine that actually happening... but if so I never heard of it.
 
POSITIVE RATE
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:58 pm

A notable astronaut who piloted space shuttle Enterprise was Fred Haise of Apollo 13 fame. He flew a lot of the glide test flights in the late 1970's. The shuttle was named Enterprise after Star Trek fans petitioned then president Ford(i think) to have it named that.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:06 pm

There is one space worthy shuttle that noone has mentioned. I wonder if it could be pressed into service. Buran, The Russian space shuttle from my understanding it has gone to space as an unmanned test flight but was to expensive for the Russians to mantain.

NASA could probably send some money that way now. Especially if it helped to get the ISS back on schedule.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
Spacepope
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:35 pm

No, Lt-AWACS is correct. Some quite large chunks ended up washing ashore just a couple of years ago. CNN has a link to the story, dated Dec. 17, 1996. http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9612/17/challenger.debris/

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akelley728
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:47 pm

UALPHLCS:

That's a big negative on the Buran. It's in no better shape than Columbia.  Sad A couple of couple of years ago the roof of the Baikonur Cosmodrome collapsed, killing eight. Also destroyed in the collapse, due to heavy rain and tons of construction equipment stored on the roof, was the Buran 1.01 space shuttle, which was being stored at Baikonur. Buran 1.01 was the only Buran that flew into space.

Another Buran, the flying prototype (similar to the American Enterprise) is currently in Australia, rotting away, awaiting a buyer (it was sent to Australia for the 200 Summer Olympics).

More details of these and the rest of the Buran ships at http://www.ljonn.com/buran.html

Anyway, even if Buran 1.01 hadn't been destroyed, there were many differences between the Russian and American shuttles, the most significant of which was the absence of the main rocket engine on it. The Buran was boosted into space by the heavy rocket ENERGIA. By itself ENERGIA was able to place into orbit 120 tons of payload (more than enough for a shuttle like Buran). There were only a few Energia's built, and I don't think any exist today. There's no way the Buran could've been hooked up to the American Shuttle booster.




[Edited 2003-02-04 05:49:40]
 
gigneil
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:57 pm

The ENERGIA was unique in that it was a liquid fuel launch vehicle.

The SRBs for our shuttles are solid propellant.

N
 
northstardc4m
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:58 pm

minor correction:

Enterprise is OV-101, there is no OV-100
Columbia was OV-102
Challenger was OV-099
Discovery is OV-103
Atlantis is OV-104
Endeavour is OV-105

There was an OV-106, it was never named and production didnt proceed past a few components. It was to be an identical sister to Endeavour. I've seen a few names thrown around for it (Intrepid and Odessey being most prevalent, also Neptune and Eagle however none are anything remotely approaching official). It was last "budget lined" in 1992, and since then has been unmentioned, as far as i know NASA has canceled it. There was also a plan to refurbish Enterprise following the Challenger and it would of been ready by 1988 (compared to 1989? for Endeavour). This however (obviously) came to nothing. I wonder if its a possibility now... Enterprise is very similar to Columbia and would be able to fill its roles after a couple years of refurbishment... Probably won't happen but watch a reporter bring it up in the near future  Smile

Also i heard someting... interesting... today. The original EFT, the white ones you see in the 1st 2 or 3 flights, had an outer aluminum skin instead of the exposed insulation of the orange current ones... interesting possibilities there...
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
Spence
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:01 pm

If I understand correctly, (and I may not) Certain Shuttles' are used for certain missions. What I mean is that all the Shuttles' are not equipped in the same way, at least in the cargo bay area. For example, the Columbia was set up for the type of mission it just had. Discovery is set up for another type of mission. NASA decides which one to send up on the type of mission it needs to accomplish.

I got this information from the media types on television, so I really don't know how accurate it is.

Spence
 
MSY-MSP
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:25 pm

From what I know of the NASA missions, the break downs of the shuttles is as follows.

Enterprise -- Test bed vehicle, but intended to be spacewothy after tests. Was kept in reserve, and then donated to the Smithsonian

Columbia/Challenger/Discovery -- all were designed for simillar missions. Were meant to be interchangable.

Atlantis -- This was and is the military shuttle. Does all of the millitary satilite missions, as well as other experiments that are designed for the military. Does civilian missions as well, but technically is a military vehicle, and the military controls its flights.

Endevour -- replacement for Challenger. Does similar missions to Discovery/Columbia/Challenger.


Interestingly enough only Discovery, Endevour and Atlantis are configured to dock with the ISS. Columbia was the only one in the fleet not configure to dock with the ISS.

Enterprise will not come back. It is too valuable to the Smithsonian to let it go back to NASA, and the cost would most likely be too expensive to make it a viable solution.

MSY-MSP
 
MD-90
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Tue Feb 04, 2003 3:31 pm

(As drolly as possible) You know, I think if NASA asked for the Enterprise back and planned to do something with it, I think that the Smithsonian would readily give it back, lol. Not that it would ever happen, of course, but still.
 
POSITIVE RATE
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Tue Feb 04, 2003 4:44 pm

I've oticed that most of the long duration missions have been flown by Columbia, since Columbia is the "science" shuttle. If you look at Columbias' previous missions most of them were 10+ days and a few 16 day missions such as STS-107. Speaking of military applications of the space shuttle- wasn't the shuttle designed to be launched from Vandenberg AFB as well as KSC? I understand that VAFB is more suitable to attaining certain types of orbits- polar i think? Also i noticed that a space shuttle back in the early 1980's made a landing at White Sands missile range? this was because both Edwards AFB and KSC were unsuitable for a landing at that time- how come NASA never used white sands on any later missions? Is it still an alternate if KSC and Edwards is unsuitable?
 
9V-SVE
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Tue Feb 04, 2003 8:08 pm

Before Challenger exploded, NASA was planning to launch from both KSC & VAFB. They then introduced a new mission numbering system, such as 51-J, which I cannot remember what it stands for. After Challenger went kapoof, NASA cancelled the whole thing. NO space shuttle ever landed at White Sands or any of the emergancy landing sites around the world, only at KSC & EAFB.
 
POSITIVE RATE
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Tue Feb 04, 2003 8:15 pm

There was 1 shuttle mission that DID land at White Sands i'm sure of this. Can anyone else verify this??? I think it was Columbia or Discovery that landed there- it was a very early mission- STS-7 or something like that.
 
Trident
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Tue Feb 04, 2003 8:22 pm

Mission STS-3 (Columbia) landed at White Sands after 8 days in space on 30 March 1982. The crew were Gordon Fullerton and Jack Lousma. Edwards could not be used because the lake bed ws under water and it was deemed too early in the programme to use the hard runways at either Edwards or KSC.
 
Sinlock
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Tue Feb 04, 2003 11:01 pm

Someone was asking about special missions.

Endevour tends to be used for more heavy lift missions (ISS moduals) because is about 15% lighter that Atlantis.
 
srbmod
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:48 am

The plans prior to the Challenger accident in 1986 was that later on that year, Atlantis was to be based at the launch site at Vandenberg AFB, since it was the dedicated DoD Shuttle. The site was nearly completed at the time of Challenger, and after the accident, those plans were scrapped. The reason why Vandenberg was going to be used was that the DoD needed satellites launched into a polar orbit, which required large booster motors to be put on any satellite launched from the Shuttle on flights out of KSC, and because of KSC's geographic location, polar orbit flights are not possible, due to the danger to populated areas over which a polar orbit launch would travel over.
 
gordonroxburgh
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:22 am

Endeavour was built using the parts that NASA had originally ordered on the long term plan of having 5 shuttles (Enterprise, Columbia, Discovery, Atlantis and 5th one)

As we know NASA elected to modify the structural test article to become challenger rather that do enterprise as she was a lot heavier than Columbia.

When NASA decided that 4 shuttles would be enoughm the parts that were well on their way to be manufactured for the 5th shuttle were stored and some became part of a structural spares stock (eg Landing gears bay doors, tail etc..)

When challenger was lost NASA re-ordered the fifth and final shuttle. The production line had not been out of commission for too long so could easily build up Endeavour and a great deal of the main structural parts were available. Atlantis first flew the year before the Challenger accident.

NASA has already indicated that they will not order a replacement for Columbia; they simply do not need it. Columbia's future had a big cloud over it, as it was too heavy to reach the ISS with a large payload, although it was scheduled for its first misison there as STS 118 in November this year with the S5 truss. During the last major check she was fitted with all the equipment for docking with the ISS.

After this STS118 flight, her final manifest schedule missions were in 2005 for the Hubble's final servicing mission as STS 124, and as STS144 in 2009 for the Hubble retrival and return to earth. There were no other plans for the orbiter, so I hate to say it but she will unfortunately probably not be missed and hence not replaced.

If hubble has no major issues the serviceing mission can move back and fit in thw the ISS schedule of flights easily. The retrival mission was due to occur after ISS assembly had been completed.

Also of note is that NASA currently plans to fly 4-5 missions per year with normally just 2 shuttles (eg Columbia not really flying and one of the ISS capable ships in a check) so with the 3 orbiters, they will still be easily capable of fullfilling their manifest.

This situation will however speed up NASA's shuttle replacement plans by a few years.
 
Areopagus
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RE: Space Shuttle Enterprise

Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:55 am

Initial empty weights without engines, in pounds:
Columbia 158,289
Challenger 155,400
Discovery 151,419
Atlantis 151,315
Endeavour 151,205

Source: http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/resources/orbiters/orbiters.html , and follow the links to the individual orbiters. I note that since I viewed the page yesterday, Columbia has been moved from the Operational list to Retired, along with Challenger.

The lighter 3 OVs are used to go to the station, with its greater inclination and altitude. Columbia had Extended Duration Orbiter modifications to allow cargo bay carriage of pallets holding extra LH2 and LO2 for the fuel cells.