B747-437B
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Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:32 pm

N610G, a US registered and privately owned Boeing 757 aircraft was forced to land at Mumbai airport last week after intruding into Indian airspace without clearance.

The aircraft had taken off from Karachi in Pakistan and had filed a flight plan for Male in the Maldives, but was picked up by IAF radar over the coast of Gujarat state in India - a significant diversion from the flight path. Air Force jets were scrambled and the aircraft forced to land at Mumbai airport where it was boarded by commandos of the Central Industrial Security Force.

A search of the aircraft revealed live ammunition rounds as well as other suspicious items. The crew have been detained and are being interrogated by intelligence agencies and the Air Force.

This is the second instance in the last week where a US aircraft has been caught intruding into Indian airspace. A US military aircraft was forced to land at Chennai on Friday after being detected off course by radar.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
GuyBetsy1
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:36 pm

Funny why such news items are not reported by the US media. Is it because it will be too embarrassing for them?
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:42 pm

No, I don't think its because it is too embarrassing for the US, they may have not heard about it yet.
Go big or go home
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:44 pm

The aircraft, owned by a US company called CoombCo, was on a private flight from Karachi to Male when the incident occurred. According to a news channel, One of the 11 crew members was also found to be carrying arms and ammunition.

Violations of Indian airspace by Western civilian and military aircraft have been steadily increasing over the years. A Qantas 747 aircraft departing Mumbai, had illegally flown over what was restricted airspace at Trombay housing the Atomic Research Center. Another Ukrainian An-32 chartered by a British national airdropped arms and ammunition over the eastern Indian town of Purulia (allegedly to North Eastern Militants) before their Antonov was forcelanded by IAF Migs. The British national, Peter Bleach, who is now serving his sentence in an Indian jail, is known to have links with British intelligence agencies. Just last month, a “Lufthansa Cargo” jet overflew the “no-fly-zone” over New Delhi, a place where the PM and President of India, as well as the leader of the Opposition live. Also a US Naval aircraft overflew sensitive areas housing miltary locations near the city of Chennai as it came into land.

Comment:While it is good to see that these airspace violations are being detected, there is a possibility that these detections are only the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
The support provided by Britain and some of our neighbours to Christian terrorists in the North East is well known. Considering that India is fighting foreign supported insurgents on atleast 2 fronts, its important that we cover our flanks and ensure maximum security of our airspace and our borders. I feel that the Indian Govt should strengthen our air-defenses even further. I think we should create “zero-tolerance zones” over which any aircraft that enters illegally should be simply shot down. That is the only way we can nip these incidents in the bud. Right now, I think we are too lax in this respect.

Another point is that US Intelligence agencies seem to have reverted to using Civilian airlines for collection of intelligence. While I understand that collection of intelligence is important, I don’t think its fair to use civilian airliners as a cover to do so. Havent the lessons from KAL007 been learnt yet? Korean airliners have been used by the US intelligence agencies in the past to snoop on Soviet defenses and atleast 2 such jets have been shot down causing civilian casualties. How fair is that?

The Qantas 747 that overflew the BARC reactors was nearly shot down by the air defense guns placed there. Who would have been responsible for the loss of so many lives? The Indian Govt for protecting its national interests? Or the Western agencies concerned who put innocent people at risk? The cloak and dagger nature of the agencies means that they would escape scrutiny!

My question is: Why should innocent civilians be put in the firing line in this manner?


-Roy
 
jr
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:46 pm

Yeah right they haven't heard about it. Its called intelligence in case you didn't know... just don't seem to have acted intelligently on those two occasions noted... accidents probably ... but still ...
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:56 pm

Another point is that US Intelligence agencies seem to have reverted to using Civilian airlines for collection of intelligence.

Roy, with all due respect I don't think the US agencies need to use civilian airliners for intelligence overflights when they have spy satellites that can read you license plate.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:57 pm

I think we should create “zero-tolerance zones” over which any aircraft that enters illegally should be simply shot down.

Sure, Roy. And when the Indian Air Force shoots down a fully pack 744, simply because of a navigation error or malfunction, what will you say then? That makes you no better than the Russians shooting down the Korean Air 747, does it?
 
B747-437B
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:06 pm

And when the Indian Air Force shoots down a fully pack 744, simply because of a navigation error or malfunction, what will you say then?

If a 744 with a nav system malfunction strays over a nuclear reactor, the smartest and most merciful solution would probably be to shoot them down.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:07 pm


Roy, with all due respect I don't think the US agencies need to use civilian airliners for intelligence overflights when they have spy satellites that can read you license plate.


Exactly sean, they dont need to do that. Spy satellites have been around from the late 60's and agencies can make use of them. But as the KAL007 case shows civilian airlines HAVE been used to collect some kinds of intelligence, and i feel it is wrong.


That makes you no better than the Russians shooting down the Korean Air 747, does it?

Navigation error is one thing, but when an aircraft intentionally strays over sensitive areas then? ANd why do you ignore the issue of agencies using civilian aircraft? I have no problem with intellignce collection. Its the means that I am questioning here.

-Roy
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:08 pm

If it was an intellegence flight why would it take off from Pakistan (where Bin Ladin is thought to be) and fly over India which is thought of as a US ally?
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:09 pm

how much aid do we give these bastards?
 
jhooper
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:09 pm

First, the U.S. media has been preoccupied with more important developments in recent news.

I feel that the Indian Govt should strengthen our air-defenses even further. I think we should create “zero-tolerance zones” over which any aircraft that enters illegally should be simply shot down.

Perhaps we should just shoot down Indian airliners in U.S. airspace who don't comply with ATC instructions. Get real folks! How brutal can you be?!?!? Do you want to make a political point, at the expense of hundreds of innocent lives on the air (and on the ground)? What if an airplane had an emergency and lost communications capability and had no choice but to land at the nearest suitable airport (in India). Do you want that blood on your hands?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:11 pm

If a 744 with a nav system malfunction strays over a nuclear reactor, the smartest and most merciful solution would probably be to shoot them down.

In that case, or in the case of something that could be more sinister, Sean, like a hijack/suicide takeover of an aircraft, I wholeheartedly agree with you and Roy in that respect. But Roy just made it a blanket statement: shoot them down. Under his blanket statement, it wouldn't matter if they were over the furthest tip of India, or over a nuclear reactor, his response would be the same, and I think that goes a bit too far.
 
United777
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:13 pm

Wasn't there a accident recently where a Lufthansa Airlines Boeing 747-400 flight to Frankfurt flew off course and flew right over the Prime Minster of India's house?

The pilots that were flying the 744 are now banned from flying to India.
 
Trvlr
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:14 pm

bastards? bin laden? what???

Calm down people! Nobody knows the important facts yet...nationality of the citizens, what items there were exactly, what has happened at this point.

Talk about hysteria! Then again, we all know what dangers Qantas 744s pose to the world!

Aaron G.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:18 pm

Why would the West want to learn anything from India? India has nothing we need.

The scrambling of Indian fighters because of a straying Western civilian airliner over India seems extremely excessive. Just Indian bravado. Not sure whether it's more funny, silly, or sad.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
United777
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:20 pm

Clickhappy - Don't you think your comments are a little too extreme. It's not like India shot down your aircraft. I am sure if the US saw an Iraqi or North Korean or even a Canadian aircraft entering US airspace with out permission it would do the same. This is the second time in a few days it has happened also.

The US and India have a very close relationship both military and economic. I think a few months ago the US Navy and Indian Navy did training missions a few months past of the Chennai coast.


Also some aircraft like C-17 have stopped in India on the way to Middle East for fuel so it's not like India does not like US military aircraft in it's airspace.

 
United777
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:24 pm

Yyz717 - US learns a lot from India. Indian people that move to US are one of the most intelligent people. Hey there was a girl in the space shuttle.

You will be surprised how much US does do business with India with medicine, science and technology among many other things.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:25 pm

The scrambling of Indian fighters because of a straying Western civilian airliner over India seems extremely excessive.

The scrambling of Indian fighters after an aircraft taking off from PAKISTAN enters Indian airspace illegally is definitely not excessive.

In other news, the Captain of the aircraft has been identified as John Burg of Nashville, TN.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:29 pm

In other news, the Captain of the aircraft has been identified as John Burg of Nashville, TN.

I KNEW it!! I knew that's what Roy's problem always was, but could never prove it: when it comes to the U.S., he's got a Burg up his ass!  Big thumbs up


 Wink/being sarcastic
 
United777
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:32 pm

Here is the picture of the Boeing 757-200 at the Mumbai Airport.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/030203/137/20rk8.html
 
B747-437B
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:35 pm

"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
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yyz717
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 4:00 pm

US learns a lot from India. Indian people that move to US are one of the most intelligent people.

"Some of the most intelligent people" ?? What does this mean? Are you saying that Indian emigrants to the US are more intelligent than American? If they're so intelligent, why can't they solve India's poverty?

Hey there was a girl in the space shuttle.

Yeah....that "Indian" girl got into space on Western, not Indian, technology.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 4:39 pm

Don't worry folks... Roy's got brown eyes because he's full of it.


My dad captains NW 744's to Bombay regularly, just to spy on you, Roy.

Why don't we shoot down all the indian and arabic student pilots over here that screw up ATC instructions all the time b/c they cant speak a craps worth of english, while we're at it. Stupid stupid stupid.

Chicks dig winglets.
 
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Fly-K
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 4:44 pm

With this kind of attitude, no wonder it's one of the most unstable regions of this planet...

When AI plowed through the ILS at FRA a few years ago because of pilot error, maybe it should have been shot down before too?

GET REAL...
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
777236ER
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 5:46 pm

Bastard Indians eh?

Imagine if a 757 illegally entered US airspace. Would the Americans just let it on its merry way? Of course not. Don't be fucking stupid and start blaming the Indians.

Why would the West want to learn anything from India? India has nothing we need.

With your head so far up your ass, how do you manage to read what other people post? Just because a culture or country isn't as technologically advanced that doesn't make them inferior.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
wing
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 5:47 pm

Quantas 747,Lufthansa Cargo,All the western jets are flying over India for spying is alittle bit paranoid type of thinking in my oppinion.Although I have never flown over India but as far as I can understand they hava good radar coverage to intercept so that can be used before the aircraft deviates from supposed flight path.Ofcourse no country would permit foreigners overfly their national security zones.But before shooting them they have to take necessary cautions to prevent them going through it.Which airline pilot says no to a vector around the no fly zone.Pilots and navigation systems may deviatedue to errors shooting them is not the solution correcting their path before they enter the restricted zone is what it has to be done.Newly developed cameras which fitted over Recce airplanes doesn't neccesarily needs to fly over the area they can take pictures from way distance if spying is the main concern.

And one thing I'd like to say to the guys who makes "eastern-western" fights be aware that you are looking stupid.Every civilization has something to learn from each other also from the past.Please be polite to each other.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
manni
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 7:18 pm

'With your head so far up your ass how do you manage to read what other people post?'

His Indian house keeper is reading it for him.  Nuts

'That makes you no better than the Russians shooting down a Korean Airliner, does it?'

Or the US navy shooting down an Iranian A300, does it?  Big grin
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
TCA256
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 8:28 pm

"Yeah....that "Indian" girl got into space on Western, not Indian, technology."

So smart from you...an other post like this and I'll start to think there are more dumbs than I thought in your nice "western" and "civilized" country!

"If they're so intelligent, why can't they solve India's poverty?"

Clean first the poverty of your own narrowed mind...
 
tom775257
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:19 pm

Wow…such xenophobia!
Anyhoo, re: poverty in India, as far as I know India has not as much debt per person as the U.S.A – which is currently in around 14 trillion U.S.D. debt to countries and banks around the world. Since 1960 taxpayers in the U.S.A. have paid around 15 trillion dollars in interest (including federal and state debt). This works out about $50,000 debt per American. Oh yes, and I am an American (living abroad..).


[Edited 2003-02-04 13:24:15]
 
voodoo
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:35 pm

Hasn't been mentioned yet,
but Indian ATC is not very good.
Aircraft may be straying into `wrong' airspace thru no fault of their own.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
N79969
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Tue Feb 04, 2003 11:00 pm

It sounds like the Indian military acted prudently in forcing this aircraft to land. That is the bottom line. It departed an openly-hostile country and was off-course. That is suspicious.

Suggestions that off-course aircraft should be shot down automatically are ridiculuous. This happens quite a bit around here...pilots overfly restricted areas and have action taken against them.

I am curious to know what those guys were doing flying with weapons.

Suggestion: Leave Dr. Chawla out of your discussion. She is a hero and her memory should be left out of idiotic remarks.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Wed Feb 05, 2003 12:24 am

The weapons? This is a corporate aircraft...try bodyguards and/or the CEO's went hunting. You wouldnt believe how many rifles I see going through our FBO into exec aircraft.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
jaysit
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Wed Feb 05, 2003 12:46 am

...Yeah....that "Indian" girl got into space on Western, not Indian, technology."
...

Uh, Yyz. Its called AMERICAN technology. Certainly NOT Canadian (or Finnish, or Greek, or Spanish, or Swiss). So much for the "West." When Belgium or Canada or the Czech Republic decide to launch a new space vehicle, then lets engage in a cultural embrace of all of western civilization. Until then its just the Stars and the Stripes, and those of us who contribute to its primacy. OK?

And judging by your ignorant unsubstantiated racist prattle and offensive comments about anything you deem "non-western" its clear that merely having one's butt in a Western country doesn't make one the natural intellectual beneficiary of Aristotle, Homer, Michelangelo or Einstein. As a matter of fact, the sheer achievement of rational Western thought is that you can be anywhere on the planet to understand Western scientific rationalism, not merely in some Canadian town with one's mind as tightly shut as the arse of a constipated cow. Its quite apparent that those tens of thousands of Indian students who are wooed by top-notch American universities every year (Ooops, there's something that India has that the "West" wants) are far more the intellectual beneficiaries of the Western canon than those who wrap themselves in the glories of western civilization by mere geographical default.

For anyone who has spent any time doing any scientific research its quite apparent that there is a huge body of scientific and technical research coming out of countries like India, Israel, and China but I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge that even if a stack of scientific publications penned by a cadre of Indian nerds hit you on the head.

And getting back to the topic at hand, any country on God's green earth would apprehend an aircraft straying into its airspace, especially one that departed from a country with which it is at war. A stupid wasteful war, but a war no less. As far as Qantas 744s go, someone needs to reprogram those BARC Reactors as follows: Qantas = f(John Travolta's 707, Koalas, shrimp on the barbie) = safe = NOT Pakistani. Should be easy enough for all those Indian computer programmers to do.

Amen.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Wed Feb 05, 2003 12:58 am

is Canada a state yet?
 
aloges
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Wed Feb 05, 2003 1:29 am

Seriously, I don't get how a threat about a reasonable military action could evolve into bashing... Why do you people bother that much about where someone is from?? There are genius people in every country, as well as there are morons all over "God's green earth". And what does all that have to do with N610G intruding Indian airspace? The crew of that aircraft was acting suspiciously, and the Indians forced it to land - end of the story! No blood shed, no missile fired, nobody in danger. It's just a perfectly normal thing to do!

Geeee.... before telling someone else to solve his country's poverty, take a look at your own driveway. It's not a matter of peoples being too dumb to solve problems, it's a matter of having the means and the resources.

aloges
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
GDB
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Wed Feb 05, 2003 1:47 am

So the KAL 747 was on a US spy mission was it? Get real.
The USAF had plenty of RC-135's buzzing USSR airspace then, the aged, paranoid Kremlin leadership killed those on the KAL 747.
As for British Intelligence helping Indian separatist groups, get over yourself, a divided India of warring factions is the last thing any Western nation wants.
Really, the paranoia and polemic on here is laughable, what is it all about, somekind of wannabe superpower penis envy towards the US?
 
s.p.a.s.
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Wed Feb 05, 2003 2:31 am

Don??t know this intrusion of airspace was on purpose, it might have been just a navigation error.. BUT...some points deserve to be addressed:

1)Spy satellites: Those are well known to the intelligence agencies worldwide and so their orbits can be easily traced, with "overflights" predictable..so no one would expose some sensitive black project knowing that a satellite is above. This is the main advantage of planes, they can be scrambled at any time and have a great "surprise element"..

2)Maybe this 757 wasnt on a spy mission but on a defense test one, forcing the IAF to scramble and intercept them, just to see how ready they are. Or maybe the planes that intercepted the jet were from special interest. I would love to make some air-to-air photos of IAF Su-30MKIs  Smile

Brgds,

Renato
"ad astra per aspera"
 
United777
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Wed Feb 05, 2003 5:34 am

You have to see where India is coming from with all this. This is the second time in as many days an aircraft has entered it's airspace without permission or even communicating to the India's air traffic controllers.

Also this 752 departed from Pakistan and everybody knows how India feels towards PAK. It is just like an Iraqi or North Korean jet entering US or England airspace.
 
wingman
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:29 am

I've never rated a thread in my life, but this one just got a full five star rating from me, classic stupidity and a stern lesson that we should be careful who we speak with in cyberspace, even morons know how to log onto the internet.

Nuke the Indians, and just in case we aren't sure which ones, nuke 'em all (including the ones from Cleveland).
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:40 am

Hey now.... I am all for forcing down aircraft straying into the wrong airspace. It's standard, smart, and in the best interests of the host country of the restricted airspace. I fly internationally several times a year, and comply with all the necessary regulations, which i understand and respect. No need to single me out there, buddy. I'm on your side.

My comment on the weapons is just making a point that private aircraft with rich passengers tend to have firearms on board.

Shooting them down like smarty Indianguy was talking about is just rediculous and stupid.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
aloges
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Wed Feb 05, 2003 8:23 am

@ Wingman:

LOL... Where'd Donald??!?! He godda get dem Noogs on dem balmbrrs!!!
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Wed Feb 05, 2003 10:15 am

Really, the paranoia and polemic on here is laughable, what is it all about, somekind of wannabe superpower penis envy towards the US?


Exactly GDB. "Maybe if we force down a Western airliner, the West will notice and respect us". Dream on India.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
TKMCE
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Wed Feb 05, 2003 1:24 pm

Roy
*****
Havent the lessons from KAL007 been learnt yet? Korean airliners have been used by the US intelligence agencies in the past to snoop on Soviet defenses and atleast 2 such jets have been shot down causing civilian casualties. How fair is that?
*****

Unfortunately that was the TABLOID version of the accident cause.

The real cause of the accident was a major navigation error!
Yeah facts are facts ! (By the way I have read the conspiratory theory book also!)
Cheers

 
IndianGuy
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RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Wed Feb 05, 2003 8:46 pm

@Alpha1 and the others:
Imagine a fully loaded BA/UA jet is hijacked immediately after takeoff from Washington and the hijackers lead it towards the White House. How do you suppose the USAF should react? ( I intentionally didn’t say Air Timbuctou, because I know what your answer to that would be! LOL!)

Now imagine this, a PIA jet headed towards ORD, takes a detour of, umm lets say, around 60 miles during descent, to overfly a ultra-sensitive military location. It could be carrying recce equipment, You never know! What do you think the USAF should do in this case?


But Roy just made it a blanket statement: shoot them down. Under his blanket statement, it wouldn't matter if they were over the furthest tip of India, or over a nuclear reactor, his response would be the same, and I think that goes a bit too far.

@Alpha1: Why don’t you READ the posts properly before you venture to
comment? Do you have to be an absolute moron everyday of the year?

When, oh when did I say that? I specifically talked of “No Tolerance ZONES”. ZONES! ZONES! Get it? If you get your big head out of your rear, you will probably able to read the posts better!

There are areas in every country that need to be secured, which need to be put off limits for ALL aircraft. I have also sat in the cockpit of an aircraft for flying lessons and I understand the possibility of Nav Errors happening. I understand that fighters scrambled should be made to first warn the intruder using internationally understood signals or a warning burst from their cannons if it comes to that! Shooting it down is ONE of the things that should be considered. The last, but definitely an option. Is that SOOO difficult for you to understand?

And the frequency with which these “nav-errors” have been occuring give you reason to doubt. Just yesterday, even as one US owned 757 aircraft was on the ground in BOM, there were reports on Indian News Channels, that an American military aircraft (a C5?) was circling 180 miles off Chennai, FAR FAR off from where it should have been. Makes you wonder as to what is going on! A bad trainee like me can make nav-errors, but MILITARY PILOTS? If TRAINED military pilots are 180 miles off course, flying over the Indian space launch facility at SHAR instead of manouvering for finals into MAA, because of a “mistake”, then it makes you wonder at how these morons would perform when they have to perform against the Arabs in the Gulf War-2!

Gr8 points there S.p.a.s! Any country with a decently well developed Remote Sensing Capability knows how to evade Spy Satellites. India, with 16 IRS series satellites up there is not ignorant of them either. We managed to hide the nuclear tests from the Western satellites quite well, since the scientists knew exactly what can be seen and what cannot and how to hide what can be seen. It is here that the civilian airliners come into their own. They can be used for that “surprise element”.

Also, No country can directly shoot down an airliner even if it knows that it is carrying recce equipment of some kind. Which is why I feel that there should be international laws outlawing this sort of activity.

@TKMCE:
And how do you conclude which was the TABLOID version and which was the REAL cause? You choose to believe one version which need not be true.

BTW, according to news just coming in, the aircraft has been allowed to depart. The pilots explaination that he was deliberately misguided by the Pakistani ATC has apparently been accepted by the Aviation Minister. No mention is being made of the arms and ammo, as well as the equipment found onboard yesterday by the commandos.

Seems like the Indian and American authorities have decided to play the “Lets Blame the Pakis” game now!

-Roy
 
David L
Posts: 8549
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Wed Feb 05, 2003 10:12 pm

Jaysit, while I agree on the whole with the rest of your post, I have to disagree that space technology is all American. It's American refinement of German and Russian technology - remember Werner von Braun and Tsiolkovsky (I hope I've got the right guy)? Other nations continue to launch vehicles into space, it's just that we can't afford to launch manned spacecraft. If you specifically mean the Shuttle then I'll concede you have a point.

As for the main topic, I'd rather distance myself from some of these outrageous, uneducated, narrow-minded remarks. Some people will start a fight if you say "hello" to them.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:47 pm

...Exactly GDB. "Maybe if we force down a Western airliner, the West will notice and respect us". Dream on India...

What a ludicrous, ignorant statement. The Indian government never professed such an attitude. The last time I checked hundreds of "Western" airliners crisscross, land, and take off from India every day. This aircraft strayed into Indian airspace from a hostile territory, and was not a known civilian airliner nor a known US military craft. I guess the Canadian government would have sent out the mounties on horses to apprehend an aircraft in such a situation.

David L: I fully concede your point. I was referring to the shuttle program in order to give a kick in the pants to some who wrap themselves in the achievements of others while displaying a level of ignorance and xenophobia that is extreme for anyone anywhere in the world, let alone the "enlightened" West.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
TKMCE
Posts: 819
Joined: Thu May 16, 2002 12:18 pm

RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Thu Feb 06, 2003 2:36 am

Roy
*****
@TKMCE:
And how do you conclude which was the TABLOID version and which was the REAL cause? You choose to believe one version which need not be true.
*****

Simply because there isa profession called "accident investigation" and international rules and framework for the same.

I assume from your earlier statement that such acronyms like ICAO,NTSB and AAIB are all greek and latin to you!

Cheers

 
David L
Posts: 8549
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Thu Feb 06, 2003 2:43 am

Jaysit: Fair enough, the USA is due a lot of credit for it's current space programme.

I also agree with you, GDB and others that there was scope here for a perfectly interesting, if slightly heated, discussion and it deteriorated into completely irrelevant, racist jingoism. I certainly can't claim never to have had any racist thoughts but some of this stuff is unbelievable.
 
747-451
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

RE: Indian Air Force Forces Down Intruding 757

Thu Feb 06, 2003 6:23 am

"Another point is that US Intelligence agencies seem to have reverted to using Civilian airlines for collection of intelligence"

Soooooooo that's what those pointy things are ont the trailing edge of a Convair 990???


Such paranoia....