artsyman
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Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:45 pm

Lufthansa has stopped selling any tickets to Israel after Feb 10th 2003. I am assuming this is to do with potential war and terror issues.

Jeremy
 
Trvlr
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Thu Feb 06, 2003 2:28 pm

So I assume Lufthansa will stop flights, too? How odd.

Good news for LY/BA/AF/AZ/KL.

Aaron G.
 
Udo
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Thu Feb 06, 2003 3:09 pm

If LH stops selling tickets for a good reason, then other airlines will most likely follow. or do you think LH is dumb?


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Guest

RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Thu Feb 06, 2003 3:24 pm

i think LH is dumb. It's a symbolic move that might cause Israelis (who would most likely be the customers on flights to israel) to be insulted, particularly if LH is the first.

Oh, well. EL AL won't ever stop flights. They don't operate like that.

TNNH
 
lxlgu
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Thu Feb 06, 2003 3:40 pm

Hi!
This is not correct.Lufthansa flights FRA TLV still in the system and bookable

Cheers
Tony
 
artsyman
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Thu Feb 06, 2003 3:45 pm

This is not correct.Lufthansa flights FRA TLV still in the system and bookable

try to book a ticket after Feb 10th

Jeremy

 
gerardo
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Thu Feb 06, 2003 4:14 pm

I tried it on www.lufthansa.de and it worked. Well at least until the moment, where the booking would have been made definitely  Smile/happy/getting dizzy .

So, what's up?

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
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Fly-K
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Thu Feb 06, 2003 4:47 pm

What a crap (or lie?) you're telling us here!
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
Andreas
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Thu Feb 06, 2003 5:26 pm

How does that sound:

Your planned itinerary

Flight Dates/Times Airport Class
LH686 Wed, Feb. 12, 2003 10:05 Frankfurt/Main International Economy Class Best Buy
Wed, Feb. 12, 2003 15:05 Tel Aviv - Ben Gurion

LH691 Wed, Feb. 26, 2003 05:30 Tel Aviv - Ben Gurion Economy Class Best Buy
Wed, Feb. 26, 2003 08:55 Frankfurt/Main International


Price (EUR)
Tariff: Economy Class Best Buy Fare Conditions
Flight price per passenger: € 644.00

Taxes and surcharges per passenger: € 49.78

Total price (1 passenger): € 693.78


Miles & More
For this flight you will receive 3662 miles. The amount of miles can be different, if not all segments are booked under Lufthansa flight number. Please note that bus and train journeys do not apply for mileage accrual.


So what the hell are you talking about??? Telling sick jokes...no sources..our usual German-bashers just love it and jump on it....get lost, id!ot!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
gerardo
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Thu Feb 06, 2003 7:17 pm

Hmmm, I didn't try 12. Feb. 2004. Perhaps that's the answer ?  Wink/being sarcastic

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
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Fly-K
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Thu Feb 06, 2003 7:25 pm

Yeah, if someone would spread false rumors about a US carrier, they would strike back with a lawsuit - and rightfully so!
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
manni
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Thu Feb 06, 2003 7:45 pm

A symbolic move TNNH? Care to explain that one, I'm really curious, with what nonsense your gonna come up with.
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777236ER
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Thu Feb 06, 2003 8:47 pm

It's obvious, isn't it Manni? It just goes to show how anti-Semetic Europeans are. Damn us to hell.

Lufthansa can do whatever they like. I bet they don't particularly want one of their aircraft destroyed in any war that may happen.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
ilyag
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:25 am

Hello,
I visited my travel agency today to pick up tickets, and the agents were busy all the time with answering worried calls caused by this rumor. This is simply not true. Once again - check your info, before you post it.
 
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Fly-K
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:31 am

So where DOES this rumor come from, if even customers heard about it?
Sounds like somebody is really out to do harm to LH!
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
avi
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:35 am

This is the second time I hear about it from 2 different sources in less than 24 hours.
I got an e-mail last night from a family member who said she was talking with a Lufthansa worker in Israel who told her the very same thing.

Personally I find it strange.
The war is not going to start next week. There are not enough US soldiers in the gulf. Foreign countries didn’t start to evacuate unessential staff (diplomat's families, tourists etc) and above all Israel is not in a "war mode" yet. We are ready but still live in a normal way (we didn’t seal rooms, gas masks are not attached to us, schools are still open etc. On Jan 15th 1991 it was all different)

It’s too early. I can’t understand it. Lufthansa makes money on that route.
Long live the B747
 
Andreas
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:36 am

Yes I'd like to know that, too. And I find it somewhat amusing, that anybody did actually believe this, I mean, really, why for God's sake would LH stop flying to Israel??? We are talking about a capitalist company, completely privatized, that needs to make profit...any such step would economically hurt LH much more than any terrorist attack anywhere in the world...just imagine the headlines (especially on Frontlinemag.com Big grin Big grin Big grin )!!!

Regards

Andreas
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
Andreas
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Avi, Calm Down!

Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:41 am

It's a joke, just look at the LH website and do a trial booking, it works, I tried it this morning and posted it here!

Airlines usually stop flying certain routes when IATA recommends them to do so, or the ministry for external affairs (In Germany Auswärtiges Amt)...I came across such a situation in 1994, when shooting in Afghanistan was very heavy, therefore BA choose to alter its route to Far East to the south, I've never heard LH to do anything more seriously than route alterings, just as any other carrier.
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
Udo
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Fri Feb 07, 2003 1:13 am

I just want to add that my comment was 'IF LH stops...' Does anyone need help on the meaning of an IF in a sentence?


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
artsyman
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Fri Feb 07, 2003 1:23 am

So what the hell are you talking about??? Telling sick jokes...no sources..our usual German-bashers just love it and jump on it....get lost, id!ot!

God what are you guys like, this was a story covered on cnn last night, and there was a Lufthansa representative discussing why they had made the choice to pull the flights. This was also on BBC America, and I saw it also on a few websites too.

You guys really need to relax

Jeremy
 
avi
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Andreas, I Am Calm

Fri Feb 07, 2003 1:27 am

I said it looks strange for me.
By the way, during the war in 91 LH DID NOT fly to Israel. Onle one foreign company flew.
About the other things I said, we will do it before the war start as we did in 91.
After all no western EU country is in range of an Iraqi missile but Israel is and Iraq did fire at us in 91.
Long live the B747
 
LMP737
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Fri Feb 07, 2003 2:07 am

If more EU carriers stop flying to Israel that's good news for El Al.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
racko
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Fri Feb 07, 2003 2:49 am

Lufthansa would be very dumb to stop flights to Israel.

Just some facts:

LH didn't reduce flights when the Intifada started 2 years ago, they chose the other direction and added flights.

While many other airlines lost passengers between 2001 and 2002, LH improved their passenger numbers.

The LH-bureau in Tel Aviv is currently the most successful bureau world-wide.

Load factors between Germany and Israel are 93%. (in 8/2002)

Cargo also plays an important, even when the load factors on MUC-TLV went temporarily down last year LH kept the 3 weekly flights due to good Cargo revenue.

El Al wants the Israelian government to reduce capacity for foreign carriers due to bad load factors on their planes.

(all data taken from http://www.israel-tourismus.de)
 
LJ
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Fri Feb 07, 2003 4:50 am

El Al wants the Israelian government to reduce capacity for foreign carriers due to bad load factors on their planes.

Well KLM listened to ELAL as they decided to cut back capcity on AMS-TLV (from B767 to B737-800) as of next summer who's next??
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Fri Feb 07, 2003 5:18 am

I have no idea about the LH no-fly rumor.

But if the war rumors become much hotter than today, then the decision - to fly or not to fly - will be made by very few people, and to very little extent by the airlines.

The managers of the insurance companies and leasing companies will draw up red zones.

Since TLV is within Saddam's missile range, then there is unfortunately no reason to assume that it will be outside the red zone.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
vfw614
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Fri Feb 07, 2003 7:27 am

Maybe Lufthansa has lost its traffic rights into Israel now that Germany has been declared a member of the axis of evil by Donald Rumsfeld  Wink/being sarcastic Rummy was so kind to point out that Germany falls into the same category as Libya and Cuba from the US point of view.

 
speedport
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Fri Feb 07, 2003 10:52 am

I decide to look into this as I scan airline information sites quite thoroughly and haven't seen anything about this. According to Lufthansa reservations this is nothing more than a rumor started by some websites in Israel.

I saw the same thing on cnn last night and also on the bbc...

I ran a search on the BBC and CNN websites and they do not list a story even remotely related to this rumor. Neither is there a press release on the LH website regarding this subject.

Looks like you bought into a prank hook, line and sinker, Artsyman. Perhaps you should wait for confirmation on a story before you post it as fact. Had you started out your post with "I heard a rumor that..." instead of posting "Lufthansa has stopped selling...." as if it were fact, you probably wouldn't have been flamed as you have, and deserve, for your post.

Maybe you wanted to seize upon an opportunity to bash an alliance partner of United given your hatred for UAL. Who knows?
 
manni
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Sat Feb 08, 2003 7:19 am

TNNH,

I'm waiting for your reply. Tell us, how symbolic it is that LH pulls out of TLV...  Laugh out loud

Just wondering, are you gonna pull your sorry card again?
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
artsyman
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Sat Feb 08, 2003 9:02 am

Artsyman. Perhaps you should wait for confirmation on a story before you post it as fact. Had you started out your post with "I heard a rumor that..." instead of posting "Lufthansa has stopped selling...." as if it were fact, you probably wouldn't have been flamed as you have, and deserve, for your post.

I didn't realize I needed to have the dna strands of the story to make it true. When I posted the story the following had happened.

1) There was a story on CNN about it
2) There was a story on BBC about it
3) IN BOTH OF THE BROADCASTS, THERE WAS A SPOKESMAN FOR LUFTHANSA TALKING ABOUT WHY THEY MADE THE DECISION TO PULL THE FLIGHTS !!!!!!!

If that isn't enough for you, then nothing is...., god you guys really need to get out more

Jeremy
 
racko
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Sat Feb 08, 2003 10:35 am

Artsyman,

if that's true, then:

Why is there nothing on the CNN homepage?
Why is there nothing on the BBC homepage?
Why is there nothing on the German Yahoo homepage?
Why is there nothing on the American Yahoo homepage?
Why is there nothing on the Haaretz homepage?
Why is there nothing on the Jerusalem Post homepage?
Why is there nothing on the Israelian Lufthansa homepage?
Why can you still buy flights for this time?
And finally, WHY should LH do that?
 
artsyman
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Sat Feb 08, 2003 1:17 pm

You raise a good point, I don't anything on cnn's homepage about it, but in truth it was a few days ago, and what I saw was on the television not the web. Think about it this way, I am 33 years old, I run a fairly successful business, have a family, house, cat etc. Why would I bother to make it up ?

besides, others have commented that they also saw it, are we all liars ? making it up for what benefit ?

I'll suggest another approach for you. In future, if you feel the need to disagree on something, that's fine, but the venom and aggression that comes from some of you over the smallest things seems utterly sad.

Maybe email Lufthansa, ask them about it

Jeremy
 
vfw614
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Sun Feb 09, 2003 12:30 am

I guess this Jersualem Post article about Lufthansa's strategy is insightful:

In a time of crisis, even keeping your head above water is victory, but Lufthansa's Tel Aviv operation has continued to show an increase in passengers, despite the continuing tourism slump that has beset the industry since September 2000, and despite the attack on the World Trade Center a year later, that sent airlines all over the world into nosedives.

According to the figures of the Civil Aviation Administration, the German airline had an increase of two percent in the number of passengers going through Ben-Gurion Airport last year, in comparison with the previous year.

In comparison, El Al dropped by 18%, British Airways, which was still the leading foreign airline last year, went down by 14%, Alitalia, which came fourth after Lufthansa, had 17% fewer passengers, and Swissair, the next on the list, experienced a decline of 11%.

Last month, the figures were even more impressive for Lufthansa, which had jumped into second place and carried 22,707 passengers in and out of Ben-Gurion, 6% more than during February 2001. That month El Al had 3% fewer than the same month of the previous year, Swissair dropped by 11% and British Airways, now in fourth place, had declined by 37%.

Asked about his success, Lufthansa Tel Aviv manager Stephan Semsch is
suitably modest. ...

... the numbers mainly reflect the fact that the airline has penetrated the Israeli market even more than previously. Semsch notes that Lufthansa has a traditional foothold with business travelers, who he stresses are not just those who fly business class. It has done this, he says, largely by increasing its capacity and, even after September 11, not cutting the number of flights to Tel Aviv, thus maintaining a reputation for good connections to major business centers.



The bottom line is that unlike most other European (and US) carriers Lufthansa did not let their Israeli customers down in times of crisis; they did not only keep their schedules (without an en-route in Cyprus like many others that did not axe their services entirely), but even added capacity despite the uncertain future. 70% of all Lufthansa passengers on the Tel Aviv route are Israelis, more than 60.000 Israelis are members of the miles & more programme, the load facotr in August 2002 was 93%. And a final quote from Lufthansa's director in Israel: "To win back a customer you have let down, is 10 times more difficult than keeping a satisfied customer."
 
bobnwa
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Sun Feb 09, 2003 11:59 pm

Artysman,

Your post is a perfect example of an unjustified rumor. All the sources you mentioned know nothing about it. Please give us a source that can be verified.
 
artsyman
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RE: Lufthansa Stops Selling Tickets To Israel

Mon Feb 10, 2003 12:14 am

This is getting boring, as I said before, as a totally pro Israel person, and loves Lufthansa as an airline, I cant get beyond what reason I would have to make it up. Its like a criminal case, there is normally a need for a motive, and I just dont have one. As said before, Numerous people saw these stories, not just I.

Now, Lufthansa have gone on official record with this, this means that the story must have been traveling around a lot of it got to them. This means that plenty of people saw this story. As you aware, I was not the starter of the story on the internet, I merely passed on what I saw.

Clearly Lufthansa disagrees, therefore I must be wrong, therefore whatever I saw and others saw, was totally taken wrongly by me and many others.

So I hereby apologize for getting something wrong, but as far as your accusations of making it up, and trying to stir up the pot, you can stick that somewhere smelly.