silverfox
Posts: 1034
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:39 am

Filming During Landing/Take Off

Sun Feb 09, 2003 6:16 am

I have read the various posts and answers that have been on this subject in the past, BUT have not yet seen an answer that deals with the following question.


IF the use of electrical appliances of any form is banned during take off and landing, WHY then on the Dicovery Wings channel do we have countless shots of the same taken with video cameras?
Do these cameras have any form of suppression that allows them to be used in the cockpit area?

If so, what is it, and can the normal handheld vcr be modified.? eg, encasing it in one of the film Xray bags that would effectively stop all electrical impulses being emitted, except perhap through the lens.
Serious answers please. (or even thoughts on this) not the usual 'Its what the FAA/CAA say'
Thanks
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Sun Feb 09, 2003 8:56 am

I was wondering that myself. Even with some of the airport/airliner videos. I have one of St. Maarten where at the end, the filmer tapes the take off from the window of his 757 out of SXM. I had heard the same about not being able to tape.

I had no problems taking photos though.
 
che
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2000 10:02 am

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Sun Feb 09, 2003 9:06 am

Flying YYZ-CLE (COEx ERJ135) last August, I asked the the F/a if I could film the takeoff and landing. To my suprise she said yes! She went on to say that one camcorder, etc is not enough to cause any interferance in the cockpit. The interferance is caused when there are a lot of electronic devices being used all giving off electrical interferamce of course.

The only highlight of the short flight was when an eldely Chinese man got stuck in the lav. The F/O had to come back and boot it open. He sure did look embarrased when he got out!

Anyway I do have a nice video of the flight.

che
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Sun Feb 09, 2003 10:15 am

How did he get stuck in the lav? Did he flush while he was sitting on the crapper like that lady did on that SAS flight?

It would have been funny to videotape his face when he got out.
 
Rick767
Posts: 2613
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2000 8:11 pm

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Sun Feb 09, 2003 10:19 am

"The interferance is caused when there are a lot of electronic devices being used all giving off electrical interferamce of course."

Rubbish, no such interference is caused.

The primary aim of not allowing use of personal electronic devices on aircraft during takeoff and landing is to ensure passengers can hear emergency instructions, should they be required.

If simultaneous use of electronic devices (like camcorders) caused interference with aircraft equipment, they would be banned for the entire flight.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
hmmmm...
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:32 am

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Sun Feb 09, 2003 11:04 am

To be fair, the industry originally defended their ban on live electronic equipment onboard, at least during landing and take-off, on the basis of interference. That was the flight attendants' answer. Most intelligent people deduced that was b.s., but arguing the truth was not an option. I was not aware that cabin staff had changed their explanation to something more believable.

But even Rick's explanation, which may be correct, is not totally consistent with logic. If it is only to hear any announcement, then that would imply that a deaf passenger should be free to use a camcorder, or laptop at all times. Or try this one: What if a deaf person, for reasons of levity or spite, wore a walkman on his head and turned it on? Should he be told to turn it off because it is interfering with his hearing of a potential emergency announcement?

To Vote YES, dial 1-800- WALKMAN
To Vote NO, dial 1-800- DEAFMAN

An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
venuscat2
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 1:44 am

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Sun Feb 09, 2003 12:29 pm

I was on a flight where the kid in front of me was listening to his CD player nonstop from departure taxi to arrival. None of the flight attendants seemed to notice or care. Any comments from pilots or flight attendants?
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Sun Feb 09, 2003 6:05 pm

It's like people who speed. It's not allowed, but people do it anyway.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
WMUPilot
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Sun Feb 09, 2003 6:11 pm

All newer aircraft are protected from the EM interference that maybe given off by CD Players, Walkmans, and so forth. The only reason they don't want you to use cell phones, well there is 2. One so you can use their expensive airphones. The other, you flying about 5 miles up in the atmosphere, and your cell phone will try to lock into every single radio tower it can find. Tying up lines for people on the ground.
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Sun Feb 09, 2003 7:02 pm

Hımmm,
Disabled people(including blind or deaf person) are notified to the flight attendants so that they can be taken care in case of an emergency and they are seated to make it easier for them and for others if evacuation is necessary. I am going to to back up Rick in this case,the emergency announcements and briefings are very important that heard by everone,even sleeping people are to be waked up duing landing and take offs.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
silverfox
Posts: 1034
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:39 am

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Sun Feb 09, 2003 7:12 pm

Geat Input, it would appear though the 'pros' are keeping very quiet on this one.
Must get onto the airlines to get the 'official view'
Radio waves are no respecters of airliners. they are in the main multidirectional, and TV/Radio signals must by reasons that are obvious, be very strong, otherwise nobody outside a very small radius from the transmitter would be able to receive programmes. The inference being that these signals also must affect the a/c systmes yet, i have not seen any broadcasts being shut down whenever a plane lands or takes off.

Rick/Hmmmm good point ref deaf people. Has anybody seen a F/A signing during the announcements?, and i am pretty sure that in the event of a problem, the amount of hysterical screaming would drown out any announcements anyway
If i get replies i will keep the list posted
 
venuscat2
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 1:44 am

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Mon Feb 10, 2003 2:20 am

So how come supposedly no interference is caused once you reach ten thousand feet, but they won't let you use it below ten thousand?
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Mon Feb 10, 2003 10:40 am

So how come supposedly no interference is caused once you reach ten thousand feet, but they won't let you use it below ten thousand?

Below 10,000 is generally considered a more critical phase of flight than above 10,000. Anyway, I took this aboard a Delta L-1011.


<http://airside.paradise.net.nz/video/deltal1011honoluluto.wmv>
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Mon Feb 10, 2003 10:57 am

Wow JHooper.

Based on the time frame, I know it was a normal takeoff run... but it seems a heck of a lot longer if you're looking at the wing/pavement! Seemed like the bird would never get off the ground  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Barcode
Posts: 666
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2001 10:20 am

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Mon Feb 10, 2003 11:04 am

Weird. I'm profoundly deaf and have only TWICE on my numerous flights had anything brought to the attention of the FA's. I lipread well, and speak perfectly, so it's not always obvious that I have communication problems.

I'm flying Continental from LGW to EWR on the 15th, coming back on the 22nd. First time I've gone with them across the pond - wonder if someone will assist with my being deaf. I'm used to it, so tend to get on with things perfectly fine.
 
kevindca
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2000 1:47 pm

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:35 pm

I'm a flight attendant in the US. Personally, I ask anyone who's using any kind of electronic device during take off or landing to turn it off. Why, you ask? Because my airline tells me to do that and they're signing my pay checks. Personally, I don't think your Gameboy or Walkman or camcorder is going to make us crash as the wheels go up, but my opinion doesn't matter when I'm at work. I'm just doing what I'm getting paid to do (hopefully in a tactful and kind manner). When we ask you to turn it off, just do it and don't argue. I myself, while traveling as a passenger, was scolded once by a South African Airways F/A for using my CD player deep over the Atlantic and several hours after take off. I thought it was a silly rule, one which we don't have in the US, but I apologized and turned it off. Period.

As for deaf passengers, if we know they are on board we are suppose to offer them a briefing book detailing emergency procedures after they board. However, in this day of automated check in and self-serve everything, we don't always know a passenger is deaf until we're at their seat offering them something to eat or (more likely) drink. No, we're not signing during the announcements, but we are physically demonstrating the relevant equipment, and one would hope that anyone, hearing or deaf, could figure out what we're doing. Any safety videos shown, at least at my company, include captioning in English and Spanish. If anyone feels they need assistance, obviously we are prepared to help them, and all they need to do is ring the call light.

The bottom line is, if a crew member asks you to do something, including turning off the camcorder, please just do it.
 
hmmmm...
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:32 am

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Mon Feb 10, 2003 9:43 pm

We are not discussing whether or not we should comply. So save the lecture. We are discussing the reasoning behind the request. You didn't shed any light on this issue. You are just as much in the dark as everyone else. So the question is, does a deaf man have to turn off his computer or walkman for take-off or landing? Is he exempt from that rule? And if not, why?
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
kevindca
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2000 1:47 pm

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Tue Feb 11, 2003 3:57 pm

Hmmmm...,

Sorry if I sounded like I was lecturing, I was just trying to give my perspective as a F/A to the many posts which brought up several topics. I suppose I've had so many people challenge me at work about this policy that I have become a bit defensive about it!

Yes, a deaf person must turn off all personal electronic devices. The only thing my company has ever told me about electronic devices is that they can interfere with communications equipment in the cockpit, and that is why they must be turned off. It's not done to make people watch the safety demo. Someone can sleep, read, whistle Dixie, look out the window, whatever during the safety briefing, no one's going to stop you.

The point I was trying to make was that, even though a F/A might personally think telling someone to turn their camcorder off was silly, we had to do it, and any explanation we may give was based on what the company told us.

 
j_hallgren
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 11:48 am

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Tue Feb 11, 2003 4:15 pm

I've been wondering the same thing...and didn't it used to be ok to do so? I recall videoing a few t/o & landings some years ago with NO warnings given to not do so....since then, I have switched to taking still pix...however, on a flight last year, I did take some video before landing after the "turn off" warning BUT we were still at 25-30K and 30 min out...and the view of the glacier was just too good! I finished long before we got lower and near landing....
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
FutureFO
Posts: 2811
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:58 pm

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Tue Feb 11, 2003 11:23 pm

I film my arrival and departures out the cabin window all the time. I have never been told to shut down my camera at all.
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
AMSMAN
Posts: 975
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 6:24 pm

RE: Filming During Landing/Take Off

Wed Feb 12, 2003 3:32 am

Did he flush while he was sitting on the crapper like that lady did on that SAS flight?

When did this happen? What exactly happened?
Aer Lingus, Proud to be Irish.