FATFlyer
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WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:44 am

Bloomberg and other sources are reporting that Gary Kelly, Southwest's Chief Financial Officer says that WN will resume adding cities in 2004.

Let the guessing begin again. My votes are on Richmond, Greenville/Spartanburg and Fresno as the next 3. Of course, that's assuming that we get no new surprises in the coming year. While I like COS, there are too many examples of carriers in a weakened state fighting to retain customers at the cost of yields. Better to let the UAL dust at DEN settle another year before entering COS.

Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle News Services
Southwest planning to add routes in 2004

Southwest Airlines may resume adding cities to its route network as early as 2004 after halting its expansion because of reduced air travel in the weak U.S. economy, Chief Financial Officer Gary Kelly said Wednesday.

Full coverage at:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/business/1776999
http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Feb/02132003/business/28978.asp
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
redngold
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:54 am

ABE.

definitely. Competing against USAirways (at PHL) and Continental (at EWR), but they'll be able to make it work.

redngold
Up, up and away!
 
Boeingfan
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 8:12 am

MOB/GPT --- Growing area, draw pax from PNS/PFN too or Casino's in Gulfport/Biloxi MS?

HPN/ABE --- vs EWR or other major NYC airport, ABE would compete with PHL/So. New Jersey carrier US?

MCN --- 80 miles south of ATL, just to make DL squirm

WN tends to go for the drive/fly crowd willing to drive up to two hours to board a cheap flight. Their demographic models are mixed some business with leisure pax focus, with cheap facilities and free rent.

DEN is too expensive.

FAT --- Central Cal. is growing

WN already knows and has the deal(s) lined up.

 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 8:12 am

MSY would be definitely up for expansion, be it fortified current routes or new destinations entirely.

WN just received 5 more gates here, so they've got to do something with them!
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
UN_B732
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 8:14 am

I want BTV!!!!!!!!! I want BTV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! B6 only has double-daily to JFK that is constantly full, with the morning flight continuing onto FLL.

-Transaero Boeing 737-200

PS: Southwest could possibly profit, competiting head to head with jetBlue's limited service at Burlington. And jetBlue doesn't plan to be expanding.
What now?
 
steede
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 8:50 am

I would love to see WN move into Shreveport. I know nothing about the costs of setting up shop there, and how lucrative it is. All I know is I go there about 4 times a year, and they actually have a pretty big(by rural NW Louisiana standards) airport that has a lot of empty space.

-steede
 
tol air
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 8:57 am

What about San Juan, Puerto Rico or Aguadilla?

Tol Air
 
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chrisnh
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:12 am

weighing in from New England, I can't believe Manchester and Providence will be the only cities here to see service by Southwest. Indeed, these two stations benefit from being within the sphere of the Boston metro market. Burlington and Portland make some sense, but I'm not sure if these cities are TOO small for Southwest (i.e. no draw from a bigger metro area). I do know that folks in Maine are coming down here to fly out of MHT, and I'm sure that Southwest is 'doing the math' to see whether PWM could support them. Perhaps not in '04, but maybe eventually. Same for BTV.

Chris in NH
 
gigneil
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:15 am

I think COS is probably up there on the list.

N
 
LV
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:18 am

I definatly see FAT on the list, and WN people have been spotted at that airport

ABE is a big possibility, after all, Pan Am is out I believe and US is the big carrier there now, but I wouldn't be surprised if US cuts into service

I also suspect they are going to want to step up their presence in the Southeast, or at least that's what I gather from statements WN has made.

I'm not sure where they could go in the Southeast though that fits the profile.

RIC, is less than two hours from ORF and it could draw traffic away from BWI, which has become a star in the WN systm

GSP or CAE maybe, both are just over two hours from RDU and might get some traffic from the east side of ATL, and I am sure Birmingham gets traffic from the west side of ATL.

Depending on where my job situation goes, I wish they would bring back STL-IND flights, but that's wishful thinking...lol
 
USAFHummer
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:27 am

Ill also pitch in with ABE...WN can compete with CO at EWR and US at PHL as its strategically positioned between the two...and ABE is the most logical low fare alternate to PHL/EWR

Greg
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gigneil
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:30 am

LV - a lot of Atlantans do drive to Birmingham to fly on WN.

Obviously Airtran has cut back on that a lot lately.

N
 
LV
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:57 am

Gigneil, I agree Airtran has been a big help for ATL, but Airtran doesn't serve much out west and that is why I figured Atlantans are driving to Birmingham for WN service, you know, cheaper flights to PHX, LAX, LAS and such.

I figure with something like CAE or GSP if it had service to someplace with Western Connections like MDW or PHX then they could easily pull eastern atlanta for people going out west, although I know WN has a tradition of not really looking at connecting opportunities and more strictly at O &D
 
desertjets
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:41 pm

FAT, ABE, and the others seem to be a toss up.

Fresno is a strong growing market. The amount of new service that it has seen, plus the new terminal, should be encouraging for Southwest. Allentown seems to have a decent location and could capture a large area.

Richmond might siphon traffic from Norfolk, but they are about 2 hours apart. Likewise it would not siphon traffic from BWI (especially given that most service would be to BWI). Richmond would pull from Richmond metro (obviously), central Virginia, Fredericksburg, and the far southern DC suburbs in Prince William, Fairfax and Stafford counties.

Elsewhere in the southeast beyond what has been mentioned I think Greensboro-High Point- Winston-Salem could be a good candidate as well. Certainly a city starving for service.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 pm

HPN...no way, way too much NIMBY up there. I believe landing fees are rather high too.
 
flynavy
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:53 pm

PNS. Lots of military traffic here, and WN does serve SAN, ORF, JAX, BWI...all big military cities. Maybe they could make money, maybe not. Logistically it would be a good move, financially...maybe not. Who knows. Might be a bit too close to MSY though, as it's only three hours away in a car.
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
Guest

RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:07 pm

Southwest could move into FAT and take it over from the other airlines real fast. United Express and American Eagle would not stand a chance. I also think they would kill HP/Mesa/freedom etc on the FAT-PHX route. Southwest would easily be the dominant carrier there within a year.

 
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STT757
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:16 pm

You will never see WN in HPN.

"and ABE is the most logical low fare alternate to PHL/EWR"

I would argue that Atlantic City is/and would be a better alternative to ABE, it's also closer to Philly.

As for other cities, Richmond, Pittsburgh, Rochester, Greensboro.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
USAFHummer
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:35 pm

ACY is way too isolated, granted its somewhat close to Philadelphia itself but thats about it...nothing else in that area really...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 2:12 pm

FlyNavy,
DL pulled out of PNS-MSY service (along with TPA/MCO-MSY) and WN immediately snapped up the last two. I firmly believe that it's probably only a matter of time before you see PNS-MSY-HOU in their system.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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RayChuang
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 2:54 pm

Here's one destination that could really rake in the bucks for WN: Colorado Springs, CO (COS).

Remember, a number of ex-Western Pacific gates at COS are still unused today; WN could fly 15-20 flights per day in and out of COS and literally capture a huge amount of business, especially during the winter ski season. People who live in the southern suburbs may find it very attractive to drive to COS to avoid the highway robbery prices charged by UA for flights out of DEN.
 
ScottB
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:45 pm

One possibility which had been raised in the past was TTN, which offers great proximity to both Philadelphia and several million in northern NJ; the runways are a bit short, though, and the terminal is severely lacking. And TTN has a bit of a NIMBY problem as well. ACY is already very well-served by Spirit to Florida; average fares at ACY are among the lowest in the nation.

The simple fact that a given airport is two hours away from another served by WN doesn't preclude them from adding service; after all, MHT is under two hours from PVD and BDL is only a bit over an hour from PVD as well. Similarly, TPA and MCO are under an hour apart, as are PBI and FLL. The primary concern is to not cannibalize existing operations at another station by opening a new one, of course.

When Southwest announced its ORF service, they stated that they'd be adding RIC within the next few years. At the time, I believe the terminal expansion at RIC was incomplete, and Southwest also needed its terminal projects at places like MDW and ISP to be complete before adding RIC.

I could see Southwest adding service to SYR before ROC; SYR has a larger catchment area than ROC and likely sees less spill to ALB than ROC sees to BUF. Moreover, AirTran's already offering BWI-ROC service while the only BWI-SYR service is on US Airways Express turboprops. Staying in NY State, WN would certainly *love* to be at HPN as much as they love SNA, but the wealthy Westchester County NIMBY's have little interest in additional service there. And I think SWF, though it has GREAT highway access, is a bit too isolated at present.

One factor which might work in FAT's favor would be the possibility of US Airways moving out of Terminal 1 at LAX in order to be closer to its codeshare partner, United. That would free up gate space for WN to be able to add several LAX-FAT flights. I wonder if they'd be hit by any lawsuits from obese passengers forced to buy an extra seat and having their luggage checked to FAT... Extra gates at LAX would probably also make COS more likely.

I believe CAE is a possibility; it's able to draw from most of SC as well as from the high-fare CLT area. Similarly, GSP has the potential to draw from CLT and the northern Atlanta suburbs, and the Greenville-Spartanburg area has seen dramatic growth in the past 10-15 years. I also agree that GSO is a good opportunity for WN, though it would certainly draw traffic away from RDU. It's also the largest non-hub metro area without WN.

GRR serves an area of well over one million; DAY is also one of the larger non-hub cities without WN service; it's got gates available and can draw from CVG, but also may affect CMH negatively.

All bets are off if one of the network majors were to liquidate or abandon a hub, though -- I think WN would seize the opportunity to build another large market.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:30 pm

Scottb,

I understand that WN has indicated in the recent past that they didn't see a gate problem with starting FAT-LAX. I'm not sure what is being thought about how that would be handled. More than likely FAT would probably be served initially to LAX, OAK, LAS, PHX with flights to SAN, ONT, RNO, PDX, and SEA all high on the list also.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
gigneil
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:43 pm

RayChuang-

Back in the WP days a lot of people did drive from Highlands Ranch and even farther north to COS to fly on WP.

If they had just stayed put in COS, they'd still be here today.

N
 
Tom in NO
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:52 am

I'll stick with the predictions I 've been making all along: ICT and COS.

Tom in NO (at MSY)
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
prosa
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:05 am

You will never see WN in HPN.

Agreed. The "upscale" types who live near the airport would go ballistic ("Airplane noise would lower our property values and damage our childrens' health!"), and unfortunately they're the sort of people to whom politicians listen.
Of course, if PrivatAir decided to shift its EWR-DUS business-class-only flights to HPN, even with greatly increased frequencies, there would be far fewer complaints  Smokin cool
WN should consider SWF as an alternative to HPN. It's less convenient, but as noted elsewhere people are willing to put up with quite a bit of inconvenience to take advantage of WN's fares. BDR is another alternative, though I'm not sure if runway lengths would be sufficient.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
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STT757
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:10 am

Atlantic City has the best facilities of the secondary aiports in the NJ, Philly area.

http://www.acairport.com/
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
flyCMH
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:46 am

Scottb wrote:

All bets are off if one of the network majors were to liquidate or abandon a hub, though -- I think WN would seize the opportunity to build another large market.

Under that propsal, Columbus would probably look pretty good for Southwest expansion. Hopefully, now that a major competitor will no longer be that much of an issue, Southwest will expand in current and additional markets from CMH, helping to fill the void left by America West.
 
Guest

RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 2:11 am

STT757: ACY has Spirit to Florida already, a carrier with very similar costs to WN, and would likely put up one heck of a fight. Allentown just has Southeast to SFB and PIE 5x weekly apiece.

Plus, PHL is close to downtown Philly and Camden. ACY would be competing with those pax more, while ABE would draw travel from the Northern and Western suburbs of Philly and getting the NY traffic.
 
akelley728
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 2:45 am

Scottb: One possibility which had been raised in the past was TTN, which offers great proximity to both Philadelphia and several million in northern NJ; the runways are a bit short, though, and the terminal is severely lacking. And TTN has a bit of a NIMBY problem as well. ACY is already very well-served by Spirit to Florida; average fares at ACY are among the lowest in the nation.

I second that on TTN. The Trenton, NJ area is absolutely expanding in growth - its prime location between PHL and EWR would generate huge loads for WN. I'm actually moving into the area, and would love to see WN nearby.

Has anybody seen the billboard for the airport on I-295 that has what looks like the engines of a 737-200, but the tail of a DC-9?
 
LV
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 3:43 am

I really truly believe there is no way WN is coming to GSO for the foreseeable future (like within the next three to five years). I currently (or at least for the next two weeks) live 10 mins from GSO and only an 1:15 from RDU. I live on the Northwest Side of Greensboro.
It would steal traffic away from RDU, despite the arguements that taking traffice from other stations is not a concern.
Trust me, poeple in Greensboro know about WN and its fares and that it is only an hour and 15 (or an hour in some cases) to RDU.
The only draw it might have is getting some traffic out of CLT but I think that is better served by CAE or GSP
 
ScottB
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 3:50 am

FlyCMH-

Well, for one, Southwest already serves CMH *and* had more O&D passengers at CMH than HP in 2001, not to mention a larger number of mainline departures. 9 or 10 mainline departures do not make for much of a "hub." And of the cities which had both WN service and non-stop HP/HPX flights to CMH, only BDL and LAX lack non-stops to CMH on WN (I suppose one could also include DAL/DFW). I don't think you can call CMH a real hub as it's been in recent years, just as RDU isn't really a hub for AA.

If WestPac had stayed at COS, they still would have imploded. Colorado Springs just isn't a large enough market (even with some spill from DEN) to support the size of operation they were trying to build. They simply grew beyond the size of their home market. But I do agree that COS is a good long-term opportunity for WN; I just think that picking off US Airways' high-fare markets has been a better opportunity for Southwest in the last 5-10 years.
 
flyCMH
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 4:23 am

Scottb:

I realize that Southwest does serve CMH and does maintain a relatively large presence in the market. My post was more aimed towards the possibility of Southwest taking advantage of their presence in Columbus and adding routes or additional frequencies.

Regarding the long-debated hub status (not to change the subject), but Columbus DID serve as a hub for America West. Just as Delta filters passengers through CVG and operates in banks, America West had passengers connect through CMH and also operate in banks. For example, here were the passengers numbers for the 4PM bank from CMH on America West on 3/13/03:

City: total passengers/local passengers

BDL: 49/30
LGA: 48/40
YYZ: 37/17
BOS: 48/40
PHL: 48/31
LAS: 129/57*#
ORD: 49/45
PHX: 157/106*#
BWI: 58/52#
DFW: 45/21
EWR: 30/19

* mainline flight
# overbooked
 
desertjets
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 4:23 am

I didn't realize that the Raleigh-Durham area and Greensboro-High Point were that close together. But both metros have over one million in population. Honestly that seems like enough of a population base, and business mix between the two places to support seperate operations. Plus it isn't like we are talking about much more than 10 to 15 flights intitally.

As much as the Denver-area members want Southwest to come to Colorado Springs it ain't gonna happen anytime soon. Colorado Springs itself is only a half million people. Somehow, especially with a growing Frontier at Denver, people driving down from Denver to save a few bucks.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 4:36 am

I don't know if WN could make it in PNS. PNS is really a tad on the small size for WN's tastes. Granted, the catchment area for PNS includes MOB,VPS and PFN which adds up to about 1.2 million people.

I know Airtran has struggled to get a real foothold in PNS and they feed directly into a hub. How would WN fair since their flights do not feed into true hubs?

I envision WN might someday come to PNS, but probably not for another 5-10 years. Need to give PNS/VPS/PFN a little more time to develop and grow.
 
ScottB
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 4:54 am

FlyCMH-

OK, we can analyze the Summer, 2002 O&D numbers for markets served from CMH by both HP and WN:

CMH-ORD/MDW: 1447 daily pax (total, both ways), HP market share 12.00% = 87 passengers each way per day. Almost enough for one additional WN 737, ignoring AA/UA to ORD.
CMH-BWI: 541 daily pax, HP market share 47.17% = 128 passengers each way per day. Enough for one additional WN 737.
CMH-BDL: 196 daily pax, HP market share 52.24% = 51 daily passengers each way. Doesn't support WN non-stop.
CMH-MCO: 771 daily pax, HP market share 33.01% = 127 passengers each way. Again one additional 737.
CMH-PHX and CMH-LAS: still operated by HP
CMH-LAX: 473 daily pax, HP market share 28.86% = 68 passengers each way. Doesn't support WN non-stop.

So HP's withdrawal from these markets might give WN the opportunity to add 2 or 3 daily non-stop flights. While HP has a "hub" at CMH, the closing of the hub doesn't create a real big opportunity.
 
gigneil
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:06 am

WN supports far smaller MSA's than Colorado Springs.

Colorado Springs is also an ideal alternative for many popular ski destinations in Summit County.

N
 
Delta15
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:12 am

My bets on RIC. They just completed a major expansion, which was built in the first place to attract southwest. RIC has been begging southwest to come for a number of years, and I think its about time.
 
deltairlines
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:32 am

My bet is on COS. WN used to serve DEN (until they closed Stapleton), which shows that they have HAD interest in the Denver region. Also, UA's dire situation would make it even more beneficial. By losing passengers to WN's COS operation (which I'm sure would work beautifully), the DEN hub drops signifigantly in O&D.

As for MHT/PVD/BDL, you can't really compare them. On a GOOD day, it takes about 2 hours to get from Manchester to Providence, and that's if you don't hit traffic snarls, which in Boston pop up every 5 minutes. Greater Boston is also a large area, with about 4 million people. Simply put, the 1.5 million on the North Shore and Southern New Hampshire can drive an hour to MHT, and the 2.5 on the South Shore and in Rhode Island can use PVD. BDL is a good 3 hours from Manchester, 2 from Boston, and about 1.5 from Providence, so it still is a hike. And at BDL, you have all of Hartford and Springfield within a 45 minute drive, so you have a strong population base there.
As for BTV, you won't see Southwest there soon. MHT is a 2 hour drive, and the whole state of Vermont has a mere 500000 citizens. There is a reason why there are only 2 JetBlue and 1 United airliners there each day (the rest are RJs or props); there isn't enough demand. US recently dropped its 6 733s to BTV and UA dropped a 733 from ORD, so BTV must not be doing something. Also, YUL is only 2 hours north, so you have JetsGo (with its Transborder service) and WestJet is coming soon.

If and when (I'm pretty sure it will happen) WN chooses another NYC base, it could very well be TTN. Although they have short runways, Eastwind was able to get its 737s in and out of there with relative ease. If they are going to have flights to MCO, BWI, TPA, and MDW, then TTN would make sense. However, once past MDW, you start running into payload issues.

Jeff
 
gigneil
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:44 am

I thought TTN now had restrictions that prevents even the BBJ from flying in.

I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I remember Boeing battling with the TTN people over the BBJ.


N
 
jcs17
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 6:57 am

I am sure Birmingham gets traffic from the west side of ATL.

People all around ATL drive to BHM, its not just the west side of Atlanta (which is actually thinly populated). I did the drive to BHM once when I lived in ATL...$88.00 BHM-STL on WN....or $4--.00 ATL-STL on DL....hmmmm...
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
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STT757
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:03 am

Gigneil,

Your thinking of Teterboro, Teterboro is in Northern NJ Bergen County adjacent to the Meadowlands sports complex, it's actually the closest airport to Manhattan and thus gets a tremendous amount of corporate and FBO traffic.

It's probably the busiest FBO airport in the country, a fave for Celebes and the Corporate elite. I had a job interview there once for Jet Aviation, all I can say is that their brand new terminal puts Virgin clubrooms etc to shame.

The biggest jet allowed at Teterboro is a DC-9 and M-80s(Midwest Express does charters for the Nets and Devils out of there), the 737 is just a bit over there weight limit. The weight limit is not due to physical limitations but from an agreement the Port Authority (who owns the airport) and local town officials came up with to discourage commercial development.

Boeing took the PA to court to allow the BBJ into Teterboro (where corporate travelers want to go), the courts ruled in favor of the PA so no BBJs at Teterboro, they go to EWR and LGA.

Trenton (Mercer) airport is in a very rural area along interstate 195 right on the Delaware river across from Bucks County PA, it's about an 70 minute drive from there North to Manhattan or South to Philly.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
flyboy7974
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:05 am

Friends of mine are corporate and others doing the internships with Southwest Airlines right now, and I opened the BUR station in 1990, and was at that time the youngest Southwest employee. Word is for 2004, they have chosen one city from every region to look at. From what they have heard, out west the top candidate is COS, and has been ever since Western Pacific grew there and folded. Fresno is not being looked at from what they said, FAT is too close to other SW cities already. In the midwest, the city they are looking at is an upper midwest city they mentioned, but couldn't remember where. In the northeast, ABE becomes a top option, definitely to fight CO at EWR and US at PHL. In the northeast, they mentioned that Herb's old rule was that they would expand whereever US Airways parked three or more planes a night, obviously joking that US is known for very high fares and costs, and that any market that US dominated would be ripe for SW. the last region is the southeast, and the markets being looked at are the carolinas right now. one of my friends at corporate doing the internship just was sent to COS to be a part of the feasability study of entering that market, and of the four regions, COS passed all realms to what Southwest looks for: gate availability, runways, poor weather operations, ability to expand, market potential, and past failures/successes. On a sidenote, in 1990 when I was the youngest SW employee, Herb took me to lunch at the BUR Hilton, I have a picture of it, it was great.
 
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STT757
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:06 am

"Has anybody seen the billboard for the airport on I-295 that has what looks like the engines of a 737-200, but the tail of a DC-9?"

If your talking about the Mercer County signs with the airplane and Soverign bank arena on it I see it all the time on the Turnpike.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
gigneil
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:12 am

STT757 - Yeah, that's it. Thanks.

N
 
klwright69
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sun Feb 16, 2003 1:22 am

Just a note. WN was gone from Denver many, many years before Stapleton closed.

If F9 and UA (or their discount carrier UA's now being developed) match WN's fares, I am unsure if enormous numbers of people will drive to COS from DEN anyway just for the pleasure of flying WN. We laugh here in Denver about seeing all the Southwest commercials during NFL games when they don't even fly here and therefore most people here are unfamiliar with WN. They have been out in Denver for a really long time. With the opening of E-470, you can get to Denver International Airport on a highway with little traffic from South Metro Denver. Colorado Springs airport is on the southeast corner of Colorado Springs and is not that close to Denver. With Western Pacific many people did drive to COS. The situation is different now. People are now very accustomed to getting low fares out of Denver International. Most people I know won't drive to the Springs even if the fare was $20 cheaper there. It is just not that close. A $100 less, yes of course. But I have recently flown round trip between DEN and LAX for $190, and DEN to IAH for $160. So I nearly laughed when another poster (who doesn't even live here) talked about Denver's "highway robbery" air fares.

I don't think COS is an attractive alternative for people going to the high country for skiing unless the fare was dramatically lower as I said. Drive from Denver International to Vail and then drive back to Colorado Springs airport. Unless there is a big fare difference, the Springs will not be the first choice. You will see what I mean. It isn't worth it if you could only save $30.

Yes I think it is a matter of time before WN comes to the Springs. They would do well there. But I am not real sure if we would have a seismic shift in air travel patterns on the Front Range and see the ruin Denver International as some might think.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sun Feb 16, 2003 1:35 am

Places I think Southwest might go...

I would perhaps add one or two more Michigan destinations...

Perhaps Flint to MDW or STL, BWI

Air Tran is the only low fare carrier at FNT- they fly to ATL daily and to MCO on Saturdays. I could see Southwest flying to MCO on a day that Air Tran doesn't once a week.

GRR Grand Rapids seems like a good place for Southwest too- perhaps to MDW, the only other flight to MDW from GRR is on Chicago Express Saabs. GRR has flights to ORD on UA and American Eagle.

I could see Southwest linking GRR with BNA, STL, MCI, BWI and perhaps some longer flights like TPA, MCO, DAL and HOU from GRR.

Airports outside of Michigan that could get Southwest

CVG, LEX, DAY, MSP, Fort Myers, Chattanooga
 
Matt D
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sun Feb 16, 2003 2:01 am

Fresno is not being looked at from what they said, FAT is too close to other SW cities already.

I find that hard to believe.

The nearest next WN city to FAT is SJC, which is about 170 road miles. I don't know what air miles are, my guess would be about 120. Then, there is SMF, 200 miles to the north. RNO, as the crow flies, is only about 180, but about a 300 mile drive, what with the Sierras in the way, and no direct road access. LAS is even further. Then, there is LAX and ONT to the south, about 220 and 260 miles respectively.

But back to my point, I thought that distance apart had little bearing. Case in point: LAX, BUR, SNA, and ONT are all within about 60 miles of each other. What about all of the Intra-Texas and Florida routes?

I've said it a dozen times and I'll say it again:

FAT fits the description of a WN city TO A TEE.

There is huge population growth. There is a lot of road traffic on SR-99 that goes from FAT to both SoCal and the Bay Area. They have a large (new) terminal which is both overpriced and underserved.

If WN came into FAT (which I've wished they would for the last 12 years), they would make money hand over fist.
 
BA
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sun Feb 16, 2003 3:01 am

There has been lots of talk about Southwest in COS and it has been reported many times that COS is an extremely high priority for Southwest.

Infact, I've heard that Southwest was planning to add COS THIS year, but there decision to not add any new cities in 2003 has pushed that.

We will likely see COS either in 2004 or 2005.

It's one of Southwest's top priorities.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
klwright69
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RE: WN's CFO - Plan To Add New Cities In 2004

Sun Feb 16, 2003 3:28 am

I think Fresno would be a good choice. But don't forget Bakersfield. I think the San Joaquin valley in California is underserved in general.

Someone also said that WN will not come to the Springs soon because it "only" has a half million people. Nonsense. That qualifies as a "big city" by this region's standards.