parisien
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2000 5:04 am

CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Sun Feb 16, 2003 10:19 am

Having learned my lesson for booking late last year, I am now booking my flight early for my annual holidays in Indonesia (Java), Thailand and HKG. I plan to fly from Paris to Jakarta take the train to Yogyakarta, back to Jakarta, a side trip to BKK and HKG, back to Jakarta to explore the western part of Java island and fly back home to Paris from CGK.
For the portion CDG CGK CDG only, I have a choice among AF (via SIN), MH (via KL), SQ (via SIN), or TG (via BKK). I did EK last year and would like to try another airline. I have also tried both KL and LH. I would like another airline with most importantly a good seat pitch. Don't mind if there is no PTV as long as they have a decent pitch between seats ! So MH or SQ or TG based on your experience and knowledge ?
 
zizou
Posts: 1483
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 10:31 am

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Sun Feb 16, 2003 11:17 am

If you are keen on pitch, forget about SQ then. Fly MH or TG. Out of the two, you should fly MH, since they have PTVs as well and their service is very good.
 
9V-SVA
Posts: 1747
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 3:54 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Sun Feb 16, 2003 11:20 am

For entertainment, ease of connection and unparalleled service, make the wiser choice, fly SQ. It may be a bit more pricey but the entertainment, service and the Singapore Changi Airport experience more than makes up for it.

9V-SVA
9V-SVA | B772ER
 
9v-svc
Posts: 1703
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Sun Feb 16, 2003 11:35 am

Zizou : I agree with you . MH is a great airline .

SQ is a good airline but I didn't have much good experiences with them but you can give it a shot .


TG , I have not flown on them .


Cheers
Charles

Airliners is the wings of my life.
 
parisien
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2000 5:04 am

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Sun Feb 16, 2003 11:52 am

Thanks for your response guys...I checked out the website of MH but it does not say anything about seat pitch. I did hear that SQ is comparable to BA etc (31 inches ?) and of course the seatguru.com does not have infos on these airlines. A couple of my friends here swear by MH....
 
parisien
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2000 5:04 am

For Zizou

Sun Feb 16, 2003 11:57 am

Hi Zizou,
I see in your profile that youre in Australia. Can you tell me about the Australian Aviation magazine ?
 
Airbus Lover
Posts: 3163
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2000 10:29 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Sun Feb 16, 2003 12:23 pm

I belive MH has 33' on their B777s and B744s...

Make a wise choice, fly MH!  Big grin
 
odie
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:55 am

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Sun Feb 16, 2003 1:14 pm

MH and TG have 34" on all their B744 aircraft. SQ have 32" on their B744. Since you aren't too particular about inflight entertainment, I would suggest going with MH. MAS have PTVs in Economy where as Thai doesn't. All carriers flies pretty often to Paris from their hub in SE Asia. MAS is going to double their frequency from 3 wekly flights to 6 weekly flights, thus departing daily from Paris except Wednesdays. Connections to/from Jakarta is good as well.

I had flew with MH on several occasions between London and Kuala Lumpur and their service is nothing less than superb. SIA is a decent airline as well, but I will only fly with them for their inflight entertainment as their seat pitch sucks. I had never flown with Thai, so I can't really comment on their service.

I am not too sure if MAS offer this deal for flights between CDG and CGK, but if you fly between Europe and Australia, you get to have 2 free stopovers in Kuala Lumpur, plus 2 free sidetrips to anywhere in Malaysia and Singapore.

Here's the website regarding MAS seat picth:

http://www.mas.com.my/products/?menu=is&mode=mas04&mode2=&sp=3

regards.
 
SR 103
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 6:19 am

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:52 pm

From the list above I would recommend MAS. The pitch and PTV combination is good. If not, take TG as the pitch is good and that is what you want. Like 9V-SVC I too have had a few problems with SQ, but they are an alright airline, definitely better than the other two when it comes to home base and PTV's. But as you stated, seat pitch is important so go with MH as they are the best option for your criteria.

SR 103
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:00 pm

When are you actually going Parisien?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
airtropolis
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 10:42 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:51 pm

My advice is to go with the 2 star alliance carriers as from personal experience these 2 carriers have more consistent levels of service. As for MH, well, twice misconnected luggage, lengthy delays on 2 occasions and surly cabin staff have driven me to avoid the airline as much as possible. I find that SQ has pretty consistent levels of service with great entertainment. As for TG whom I have just flown to Seoul and back on, they provide great food and generous seat pitches on some of their planes.
 
airtropolis
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 10:42 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:55 pm

Forgot to add, TG also fly 10x weekly to Paris more than either SQ or MH although SQ at 6x weekly is currently more than the 3 flts per week MH currently offer (this will change from march when SQ go dailiy and MH 6x weekly), a small detail you may want to consider.
 
MAS777
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RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:59 pm

Of course some of the added bonuses of flying with MAS is the fantastic food and the traquility and sheer impressiveness of Kuala Lumpur International.
 
Airbus Lover
Posts: 3163
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RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Sun Feb 16, 2003 8:21 pm

I think for the price, MAS offers the cheapest out of Paris? That's what i heard from a friend living in Paris...
 
mandala499
Posts: 6458
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Sun Feb 16, 2003 9:39 pm

Parisien,

Go MH, Malaysian now flies KUL-CGK 4 - 5x daily, which makes it a lot easier on connections.

For CGK-JOG, U want to take the train? Oh well, why not, but now U can fly Indonesian Airliens there as well as Lion... Oh what the heck.

When are you going anyway ?

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Sun Feb 16, 2003 11:28 pm

Although MH has 34" seat pitch, the seats on MH planes are bulkier than most other airlines. It also reclines more which isn't necessarily a blessing. When the person in front you fully reclines his or her chair, it really gets into your space even if you fully recline your chair. This, IMO, is due to the bulkier chair design. The 34" pitch is actually a necessity to make it comparable to other airlines with 32" pitch. In short, I don't think the 34" seat pitch is a plus, but I'm not saying it's a disadvantage, either. It's a wash. About their food, because Malaysia is an Islamic country, the variety of meat served in their main course is extremely limited. I had enough of their chicken, and I wasn't impressed at all. There are quite a few people here who think highly of their service. I would say their service is above average, but there is a lot of room for improvement. For example, on one of my flights, they served tea nearly 20 minutes after they served coffee in my cabin. This is not a sign of good service.
 
Airbus Lover
Posts: 3163
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2000 10:29 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Mon Feb 17, 2003 12:23 am

Dynkrisolo, go to http://www.airlinemeals.net and see what MH serves .. Their catering is defintely one of the best in the sky, when was the last time you flew them? Perhaps in the days of '97-'99 their service did decline a bit but is now better than before...

Perhaps you were just among the unlucky ones to experience the not-so-good on MAS. oh well nothing is perfect.
 
twa@fra
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 8:10 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Mon Feb 17, 2003 1:07 am

I have flown on TG twice, the one journey in Biz Class surly was great. But I was more impressed by their Economy service, it was "first class". You had been served like individuals and not like a growed of hungry passengers like they treat you at LH for example. The only thing I missed was the lack of PTV and the old BKK Airport isn’t the state of art.
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Mon Feb 17, 2003 4:35 am

Airbus Lover:

The last time I flew MH was a couple of months ago across the Pacific. Their economy class food was definitely nothing to rave about.
 
parisien
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2000 5:04 am

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Mon Feb 17, 2003 10:37 am

thanks for the response. I am going in the summer. Looks like MH and TG correspond more to my seat pitch preference though the story about bulky seats damps MH a little bit. It says on the website that the seat reclines 7 inches...kinda a lot. All three airlines operate 744 out of CDG to their respective hub. On MH I would transfer to A330. On SQ and TG on 777 (if I take the later connection on TG out of BKK). Both 777 and 330 are my favorite airliners....though I have flown on 777s more often on UA out of CDG to the US.
Yes, MH offers one of the best prices out of CDG.
And yes, I am taking the train to Yogyakarta...aside from Garuda Indonesia, I am not too confident about flying there (please tell me that i am wrong).I flew GA once on a domestic service and it was great...
Do you earn United miles on TG ?
 
odie
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:55 am

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Mon Feb 17, 2003 10:52 am

Parisien: If you take the aisle seat on MH 744, it shouldn't bother you a lot. The seats reclines more, which will be a pain in the ass if you are watching a movie coz the you can't see the TV properly if the person in front reclines to the maximum. But that shouldn't matter to you since you are not too particular about that.

It says on the website that the seat reclines 7 inches...kinda a lot.

Well, the more you recline, the easier you will be able to sleep. That's why MAS need 34" seat pitch, just to accommodate the extra recline.

Anyway, yes you earn United miles on both SQ and TG (on SQ it depends on the class you are booked on). On MAS, you can earn miles with NWA or KLM.
 
rupertvander82
Posts: 400
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2002 10:19 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Mon Feb 17, 2003 12:18 pm

Airbus lover: You cannot use some pictures off airlinemeals.net to judge if an airline serves decent food or not! That is too generalised.

MAS has good seat pitch, but to me the seats are much less comfortable than that of SQ and Thai. It's built in a very funny way, that does not allow one to sleep well.
 
9v-svc
Posts: 1703
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Mon Feb 17, 2003 12:46 pm

If you fly GA domestic if i am not wrong , there are a couple of A330 flights you might want to check it out first .

Charles
Airliners is the wings of my life.
 
tsentsan
Posts: 1921
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:48 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Mon Feb 17, 2003 1:26 pm

MAS has good seat pitch, but to me the seats are much less comfortable than that of SQ and Thai. It's built in a very funny way, that does not allow one to sleep well.

I say thats very true for SIA's B777s!!!!!!!!!!!
Least I could manage a few winks on their B747s, whilst none on their A340s.
NO URLS in signature
 
odie
Posts: 1581
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RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Mon Feb 17, 2003 1:33 pm

I totally agree with Tsentsan. I had traveled on both MH's and SQ's B744 last year and I can say that MH's B744 is more comfortable than SQ's. In MH's B744, you get to have lumbar support where as in SQ you don't. Lumbar support is pretty important to me on such a long flight just because I don't want to have a backache after leaving the aircraft. If SQ flies their B777 into Paris-CDG, I would have no reservation recommending SQ to Parisien as well since their B777 is a lot more comfortable than their B744s. SQ's B744 seat pitch sucks big time compared to MH's B744. Can't say for TG, but if they were the same, they are pretty good too.
 
CGK
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 2:17 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Mon Feb 17, 2003 4:41 pm

Parisien: you must love my country so much if you come here yearly!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Anyway taking the train to Yogyakarta isn't all that bad if you take the high end trains. I've done it a couple of times myself and it was an OK experience. I used to fly often to JOG myself (my grandparents lived there) and always flew on Garuda so can't comment on other airlines.
 
rupertvander82
Posts: 400
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2002 10:19 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Mon Feb 17, 2003 6:36 pm

SQ's 744 does not have lumbar support?

I flown MH's 744 and didn't find their seats spectacularly comfortable. It was the same to me as SQ's and TG's.
 
9V-SVA
Posts: 1747
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 3:54 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Mon Feb 17, 2003 7:36 pm

RupertVander82, the 744 does not have lumbar support, only the SV series B772ER have them.

Parisien, you can earn UA miles on SQ/TG. You should really consider SQ as the service level and the airport you'll be flying into is much better than that of TG.

9V-SVA
9V-SVA | B772ER
 
garuda
Posts: 573
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2000 10:53 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Mon Feb 17, 2003 8:08 pm

I've never flown MH before, so I can't comment on that. But I've flown TG and SQ before, albeit on short hauls only.

Seat-wise, SQ and TG are pretty much the same (I've flown on SQ B772 and TG A333).

Service-wise, SQ wins although not by much. I found TG stewardesses to be quite rude and ignorant compared to SQ ones, although the Singapore Girls tend to be robotic with fake smiles but hey, at least they serve you.

Airport-wise, I've been to both BKK and SIN, and SIN is still the best airport in the world for transit passengers. Again, SQ has the advantage here.

Regarding the domestic Indonesian Airlines, I've only flown with Mandala, Bouraq and the defunct Sempati Air (and of course Garuda). GA wins hands down on domestic routes, but their price is way more expensive than the rest. Mandala and Bouraq are not bad either, at least they are the ones who are trailing GA in domestic sector although by quite a large margin. I heard good things about Indonesian Airlines and Lion Air, so maybe you want to give them a try. Both Indonesian and Lion are considered the best of the so many new start-up airlines in Indonesia.

JA
 
Ryanair!!!
Posts: 4071
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:55 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:25 pm

I have flown all 3 airlines so go into the archives and check out the trip reports. Those who know me in this forum would know my fav... MAS. So it is obvious which airline I would recomend.

However, for the sector between KUL and JKT, you risk ending up on their dinghy 737-400s. They fly 4 x daily to JKT with the A330s performing the 0905H and 1625H (on Wed, Fri, Sat and Sun only) flights. As much as I love that airline, I would hate getting stuck on that Baby Boeing of theirs for 2hrs, tight pitch and nil entertainment!

However, Thai operates the 777 and A330 between BKK and JKT, with one of their flights (TG 413, I think) transitting in SIN. While their absence of PTV seems to irk some, excellent in-flight service (on most flights of mine) seem to compensate for that.

As for SQ, you get the occassional 747-400 between SIN and JKT. It is funny to watch the cabin crew seemingly rush through the meal service in the Megatop during the 1.5hrs flight - robotic smiles intact! Not too sure if the A340s still fly this route but the 777s are surely utilised.

Good luck making your shoice and please follow up with a trip report!

cheers
Ryan
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
mandala499
Posts: 6458
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Tue Feb 18, 2003 10:12 pm

Parisien,
I agree with Garuda there...
For CGK-JOG it's only GA (733/4), GA-Citilink (F28), Indonesian Airlines (733), Lion (MD80)... The others aren't worth it (and I think only 3 of them fly to JOG now)
GA is nice, but pricier than the others.
GA Citilink... from what I've heard it's not worth it, even if it's cheap.
Indonesian Airline... comfortable, reliable, and cheap...
Lion... Cheapest of the top 3, but you get packed like a mini cattle truck...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
parisien
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2000 5:04 am

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Tue Feb 18, 2003 10:47 pm

HI, thanks for your comments. Also thank you for some who have written me directly on my email address....I will respond to you soon too.
There are some trip reports about new airlines in Indonesia that really do not give me confidence about flying them....Garuda is pricier but someone actually informed me that I could buy domestic Garuda ticket cheaper here in France (though I have to check the requirements). Taking the train across Java also has the advantage of taking in the super beautiful scenery along the route.
Yes, lately I have been taking my holidays in Indonesia everyyear. It is one of favorite countries along with Maroc.
I will definitely write a trip report....
Question about visa: is it still as always ? Two months visa free for visitors ? If you stay over a month do you actually have to have some kind of paper from the police (this last related to my experience last time when the immigration guy said I should have some other piece of document because I stayed over 1 month?????).
oops got to go (I m at work) !
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:51 am

I find it quite weird sometimes how Asian flyers are so particular about their widebodies on short flights! (cf Ryanair!!!). In most parts of the world - esp in Europe and North America - many long flights are served by 737s or A320s or even smaller aircraft. BA for example flies mainly a 737/A320 fleet across Europe and even to Central Asia. I quite like MAS 737s - their kinda cute and cosy.

Besides the service on MAS makes up far more for the limits of the cabin. Just think yourselves lucky that you don't have to endure over 4hrs on a 737 with poor seat pitch and a roll for a meal...
 
Ex_SQer
Posts: 1351
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:43 am

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:09 am

I have to echo Ryanair!!! SQ operates 777s/744s and they serve a full hot meal on the 1 hr 15min SIN-CGK vv sector. Sometimes when the flights are full and they are short of crew you see the panic in their eyes, but their smiles are still intact. Great entertainment  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
airlanka
Posts: 178
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 1999 1:58 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:33 am

Why dont you try SriLankan via Colombo which is a great stopover destination. May be you can hop to Male for a day or two
A taste of Paradise
 
mandala499
Posts: 6458
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Thu Feb 20, 2003 12:05 pm

Visa is still as always, however, best you check the embassy in Paris.

If you need to overcome any stay limitations, just fly out for a day and come back in ! It's what all long stay tourists do !

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
SQ772
Posts: 1647
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 5:16 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Thu Feb 20, 2003 12:16 pm

Ex_SQer...when you say full meal on the SIN-CGK vv sectors you mean....

this type? just main course and dessert, no choice of main course etc



or this type? full meal presentation with appetizers, main course and dessert (not shown in pic)?




What's the rationale for serving a full course on such a short flight? I don't think they even do a full meal service in P and J!

I've heard horror stories from ex- SQ crew about how they use to rush through the service and never had enough time to clear all meal trays because the flight was too short for a full meal service and there were just too many passengers (744, A340, 777 - wide body aircrafts)... But well, at least they still manage to 'force' a smile. Not many airlines' crew working under similar conditions would be able to do that.

For passengers expecting the same high level of service that they are used to receiving on other airline's tiny single aisle aircraft (with similar flying time and inflight service), get real!
There's always a better way to fly...
 
Ex_SQer
Posts: 1351
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:43 am

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Thu Feb 20, 2003 2:17 pm

SQ772: I meant the former! Sorry lah, been in the US too long, to me that is a "full meal" when you compare it with what we get here, even the transcontinental services.

I think the ultimate in efficiency are the BA crew on the LHR-MAN shuttles. They manage to serve a box lunch and bar service on that 35 min hop on the B757 (narrowbody aircraft = more rows to serve).

 
SQ772
Posts: 1647
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 5:16 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Thu Feb 20, 2003 2:47 pm

Ah...I see.

Well, good thing about SQ is that they haven't resorted to using those disposable alluminium plates on short sectors that you see on almost every airline (even the leading Asian carriers) nowadays ...


There's always a better way to fly...
 
garuda
Posts: 573
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2000 10:53 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Thu Feb 20, 2003 4:19 pm

SQ772,

The rationale of serving full meal depends on the flight schedule. If it departs around meal time (foe example, 7-8 PM for dinner), normally they serve dinner on board even for a 75 minutes flight like SIN-CGK.

I've flown SIN-CGK-SIN quite often ever since I moved to Singapore 5 yrs ago, and I always had full meal on all flights that depart around meal time, regardless the airlines, or the airplanes. It's not that rush actually, depends on how many flight attendants there are. Recently I've flown CX B773 with 90% load, and the service was in normal pace, but that's because they have 2 FAs/aisle/cabin in Economy class, even on the largest cabin (1st cabin of Economy), they have two meal carts/aisle. Now, that's what I call efficient service....

JA
 
SQ772
Posts: 1647
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 5:16 pm

RE: CDG-CGK MH SQ Or TG?

Thu Feb 20, 2003 6:55 pm

I think there may be a slight problem with the definition of what constitutes a full meal here...  Big grin Anyway Garuda, agree fully with you that the type of meal served depends on the time of departure etc.

There's always a better way to fly...