POSITIVE RATE
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KAL 747 Crash Stansted 1999

Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:32 pm

What was the actual cause of the KAL 747-200 crash at Stansted airport in December 1999?? I don't recall any cause having ever been mentioned in the news and i'm wondering was it the cargo that caused it to explode??
 
777236ER
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RE: KAL 747 Crash Stansted 1999

Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:41 pm

http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/special/hl7451/hl7451s.htm

Looks like the captain's ADI went tits up.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
kaitak
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RE: KAL 747 Crash Stansted 1999

Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:57 am

Yes, similar cause to AI 747 on New Year's day '78 (in fact, only a very few minutes into '78) - the ADI worked loose and the aircraft went into the water.

In the KAL accident, I don't think there was anything inherently dangerous about the cargo; it was carrying a substantial amount of fuel which would have caused the explosion on impact.
 
backfire
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RE: KAL 747 Crash Stansted 1999

Fri Feb 21, 2003 6:02 am

As far as I'm aware there is no final report into this accident yet.
 
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RE: KAL 747 Crash Stansted 1999

Fri Feb 21, 2003 1:40 pm

Shouldn't the captain have cross checked his ADI with the FO's ADI? If the crew knew the Captains ADI was "unreliable" then shouldn't they have been weary when it displayed differently to the FO's? This is why there are 2 ADI's fitted to IFR aircraft to prevent an accident if one fails.
 
KAL_LM
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RE: KAL 747 Crash Stansted 1999

Sat Feb 22, 2003 1:27 pm

Yes, he probably should have, but there were certain cultural infuences on the situation as well. Even if the captain had been wrong, the FO would not have said much, and even if he did the captain would have ignored him, because he was the captain. It is the whole senior/junior idea (and in KAL the whole military vs civilian) that seems to permeate Korean culture (I'm not an expert, I just work with them!). This puts a huge damper on crew communication and resource management. Also, this is why after the crash, a program was put into place at KE to hire ex-pat. pilots and to increase the number of civilian trained pilots and to start working the older military minded pilots out. So even if the FO had noticed that the ADI was wrong (which from what I gather he did and the FE as well) the Captain would have overidden them and their concerns, as he was the most senior man on-board and in control. Unfortunately we all know what happened.

(note: I'm not making any judgements, just relaying observations)

regards,
Tom
is that a light at the end of the tunnel or just a train?
 
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RE: KAL 747 Crash Stansted 1999

Sat Feb 22, 2003 4:11 pm

I understand what you are talking about! I've heard of those things within some carriers too. It just seems like such a waste to lose a 747 over something as mundane as an ADI fault! Imagine if that 747 had been carrying pax instead of freight???
 
777236ER
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RE: KAL 747 Crash Stansted 1999

Sat Feb 22, 2003 10:56 pm

It's all very well for someone to sit in an office and declare "crews should use CRM!" and "if THIS happens then do THIS." In reality, that doesn't happen. You ask a pilot "what do you do if your ADI fails" and they'll give you a straight answer. However, put them in a 747-200, 1000ft above the ground at take-off power in cloudy conditions and fail the PF's ADI, without any warnings, and you've seen what happens.

A good example of a similar situation was the British Midland 734 that crash a few metres from EMA, on the M1. The crew shut down the wrong engine! How rediculous! Yet it still happened. It's all very well to say "determin which engine hsa the problem and shut it down", but at 33000ft both crew are under a lot of stress. Mistakes, even major ones, are easy to make.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
cedarjet
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RE: KAL 747 Crash Stansted 1999

Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:40 pm

The Air-India 747 that crashed near Mumbai a few minutes into New Year's Day 1978 was caused by disorientation, not a fault with the ADI. The captain was diabetic, had been drinking, and the entire flight profile was off. While in a turn, the captain got disorientated and mismanaged the controls. They rolled over and hit the water inverted. All the ADIs matched, and the comparator did not sound an alarm. Btw there are THREE independent ADIs onboard, one each for the main panels and one backup instrument on the centre panel. The reason a lot of attention was paid to the ADI theory is cos that is what the Captain thought had failed. He shouted something out to that effect, and the co-pilot, who hadn't been monitoring the instruments, looked down and saw his was showing an unusual attitude as well (which the captain had flown them into), and incorrectly drew the conclusion that his had failed too. The flight engineer could see what was going on the whole time and pointed at the centre panel, with the backup instrument. "No captain, look at this one." Too late.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz