Transtar
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Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sat Feb 22, 2003 8:02 am

I was wondering why Hawaiian chose the 767-300ER as a replacement aircraft for its DC-10s. They hold far less than the DC-10s and considerable less first class seats. Why didn't they go for a bigger aircraft, like the 767-400ER?
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sat Feb 22, 2003 8:11 am

on a seperate, but similiar note, I was told that the Hawaiian reps who agreed to purchase the ex-LTU airframes were fired after an internal investigation by the company. They were wined, dined, and sexed into buying those tired used-up airframes.

Any truth to this?
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sat Feb 22, 2003 8:52 am

probably wanted to trim capacity... same reason NW replaced DC10s with 757s
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brons2
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sat Feb 22, 2003 8:57 am

Much as I loathe Airbus, the A332 probably would have been a better option. For both capacity and cargo reasons.

HA lost some of their charter business because of the small capacity of the 763 in comparison to the DC-10.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sat Feb 22, 2003 9:01 am

Since the D10's were used, their capacity was leased "cheaply" from AA. Hence, they might have been larger than required. It's likely that the D10 was the only aircraft available to replace their L10's at the time.

Now that the time has come to replace the D10, an aircraft more in line with capacity demands was chosen. IMHO.

Neil

PS. The 763 is not that much less capacity than the D10 anyway.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sat Feb 22, 2003 9:23 am

I also heard that it had to do with increased frequencies to the west coast (didn't LAX get one more flight a day?) and also new service to the west coast, like SMF.

"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sat Feb 22, 2003 10:00 am

on a seperate, but similiar note, I was told that the Hawaiian reps who agreed to purchase the ex-LTU airframes were fired after an internal investigation by the company. They were wined, dined, and sexed into buying those tired used-up airframes.

Any truth to this?


I wouldn't doubt it. They had no commonality with Hawaiian's other jets (exit-wise)

Now Hawaiian has 767s with 3 different types of exits

N580HA-N582HA = 8 door exits
N583HA-N586HA = 6 door exits, 2 window exits
N587HA-N593HA = 4 door exits, 4 window exits
Puhdiddle
 
ha763
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:39 am

There are several reasons Hawaiian chose the 767. These are some, but not all:

1. The DC-10's are old, average age of about 23 years, meaning increased maintenance requirements.
2. Better efficency than the DC-10 and lowest twin aisle operating costs.
3. Range would allow expansion past the West Coast when the time comes (Most HA DC-10 were the 10 series).
4. The reduced capacity would better match year round demand rather than only peak demand.
5. Improved efficency and lower capacity would improve yields in a low yield market.
6. Allowed HA to increase non-stop flights from OGG.
7. AA wants to get out of DC-10 maintenance.
8. The first 3 (580-82) were available from Ansett Worldwide at a good lease rate at the time since they had no customer for them.

HA got the ex-LTU's mainly because they were available quickly and again, rather cheap at the time from ILFC. The leases for most of the DC-10's were going to expire in 2002 and HA needed 767's to replace them. The first 767, 580, arrived in Oct 2001 while to first of last 9, 587, arrived in Sept 2002, almost a year apart.

Were they wined and dined? Of course, it is a common occurance in every industry. The mistake to lease the planes only came about after the planes were overhauled and other problems were found.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sat Feb 22, 2003 2:44 pm

The mistake to lease the planes only came about after the planes were overhauled and other problems were found.

What problems? Things that LTU or the lessor did not own up to but should have?
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
ha763
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sat Feb 22, 2003 5:17 pm

The overhauls for the ex-LTU's all took longer than originally planned partly because of extra things found during the overhaul. I don't exactly remember what it was, but I think it was because corrosion was found during the overhaul. Then there are all the mechanicals these planes have had.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sat Feb 22, 2003 5:19 pm

Thanks Ha763.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
HAL
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sat Feb 22, 2003 5:39 pm

I wouldn't doubt it. They had no commonality with Hawaiian's other jets (exit-wise)

Now Hawaiian has 767s with 3 different types of exits

N580HA-N582HA = 8 door exits
N583HA-N586HA = 6 door exits, 2 window exits
N587HA-N593HA = 4 door exits, 4 window exits


Do you really think exit configuration differences would cause someone to get fired? When I walk into the planes, unless I look at the ID plate on the instrument panel, it's hard to tell the difference between any of our planes (age related effects aside, like chipped paint). The LTU's are old compared to our other brand new airframes, but once the maintenance issues were solved, they're working fine in our fleet.

HA lost some of their charter business because of the small capacity of the 763 in comparison to the DC-10.

And we're glad to be rid of it. That kind of charter business was not a big money maker for us. It's much better for us to be able to sell our own seats to LAS, and not have to pay a middle-man to book the passengers for us. Many of the people are staying with us because of the frequent-flyer miles they piled up on previous charters. The new HNL-LAS charter flying is being done by Omni Air, in a DC-10 with 380(!?!?!?) seats. Imagine six hours in that sardine can!

The rest of the questions Ha763 answered admiriably. Overall, the new planes give us flexibility and cost savings we just couldn't get with the DC-10's, or with the Airbus either.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
9v-svc
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sat Feb 22, 2003 6:58 pm

I used to like Boeing ,and I prefer Airbus now adays , A332 would have been a better choice or maybe B777 . Ohh well , I guess 767s are doing well for HA .
Airliners is the wings of my life.
 
ha763
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sat Feb 22, 2003 7:50 pm

Also forgot to say that the A332 would be overkill for in terms of capacity and range.

Regarding the lost charter, my Aunt recently flew on a Vac Hi charter on Omni. Omni is offering 355 seats in a 3 class service: First, Premium, and Economy. However, Economy is 10 across. I'm not sure about Premium, but it just says that it offers leather seats and extra legroom, might still be 10 across. Compared to HA's DC-10's, very uncomfortable in coach.
 
Transtar
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sun Feb 23, 2003 2:03 am

One of y'all mentioned greater range...Is Hawaiian considering an east coast destination? I would think Baltimore/Washington would be a great entry point there.
 
777236ER
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sun Feb 23, 2003 2:17 am

I used to like Boeing ,and I prefer Airbus now adays , A332 would have been a better choice or maybe B777

Oh here it is, this guy likes Airbus, so obviously the A332 would have been a better choice. Bet HA are kicking themselves.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
gigneil
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sun Feb 23, 2003 3:08 am

The 777 would have massively overkill.

The 332 would have been a just fine choice, but not necessarily a better one. The 763 does everything Hawaiian needs it to, and if they need a bigger plane they can get a 764. If they had gotten the 332 and needed a smaller plane they would have been SOL.

The 763can make the far reaches of the East coast, carries plenty of pax, and is a low cost plane to acquire and operate.

Does HA carry much cargo?

N
 
AmericanF100
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sun Feb 23, 2003 3:34 am

I agree with the capacity cut...just like with NWA and the 753...there isn't nearly as high demands in the airline industry as there used to be  Sad

Matt~
 
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HA_DC9
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:11 am

For flights to Hawaii, the 767/757 seems to be a good aircraft to use. HA uses the 763, CO uses their 764s, UA uses their 752s/763s/772s, DL uses their 764s, AA uses their 752s/763s and even ATA uses their new 753s. Although it would have been nice to see a 772 in HA colors, it is too much of an aircraft for too high a price for an airline like HA. Hawaii is a very low yield market, the costs of using 772s would probably kill HA. The 767 fits HA's needs very nicely.
 
Transtar
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RE: Hawaiian's Choice For 767

Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:34 am

Could Hawaiian make profits flying routes to the East Coast?

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