UA744Flagship
Topic Author
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Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:53 am

Mesa will now be operating as UAX out of DEN with 10 Bombardier Q200s... these will replace the AirWis DoDo birds that are being retired (AirWis will be 100% CRJ).

The strange things is, Mesa is currently operating as Frontier JetExpress out of DEN. Is this the first case of one regional airline serving two competing hub carriers?
no wire hangers!
 
DIA
Posts: 3053
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:56 am

I may be wrong, but doesn't ASA serve Delta and Airtran out of ATL. If not, who is serving Airtran with those CRJs?
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
UA744Flagship
Topic Author
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:00 am

I may be wrong, but doesn't ASA serve Delta and Airtran out of ATL. If not, who is serving Airtran with those CRJs?

Coincidentally enough, Air Wisconsin... the same airline whose retirement of props are necessitating the contract with Mesa to "continue to serve mountain communities".
no wire hangers!
 
DIA
Posts: 3053
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:01 am

That is wierd to say the least.
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
SegmentKing
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:24 am

this isn't a conflict of interest at all. JetExpress was moved to a complete control by frontier and not Mesa, so Mesa really doesn't have much of a say in where their planes go, just as long as they get paid.

Mesa is also adding 6 CRJs to the JetExpress fleet..... expect more Frontier cities soon!

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
usairways85
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:25 am

1.)Chautauqua Airlines at STL, operates a hub for American Connection and operates US Airways Express to Philly.
2.)ACA operates FRJ's from BOS-PHL for Delta Connection as well as J41's from IAD-PHL for United Express.

Anyone have a picture of the new planes?
 
searpqx
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:25 am

American Eagle serves AA and AS out of LAX. QX serves AS and NW out of SEA, all on the same flights. While its not overly common, its not unheard of. In the Mesa case, they will dedicated ops for each carrier. Basically Mesa is just a subcontractor, working for whomever hires 'em.

Duane
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
J32driver
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:26 am

It was my understanding that UAL wanted Air Wisconsin to get rid of the props in favor of an all jet fleet. We wondered who was going to serve the markets you can't get an RJ into.

As far as Frontier Vs. United Service. There will probably be a no compete clause in the contract. If Frontier already serves a destination, then Mesa can't serve it flying in United colors, only frontier colors.

So UAL hired the company that it fired twice and sued once? Yep... that makes alot of sense. Morons.
 
jmc1975
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:26 am

Are they just going to pull these Dash8s out of thin air to operate these flights? Or are they going to rob them from the America West Express operation in Phoenix?
.......
 
srbmod
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest

Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:34 am

Mesa for a time were doing flights for USAX and AWAX out of Atlanta. Air Wisconsin doe UAX and AirTran JetConnect flights out of ATL as well.
 
jmc1975
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:40 am

Srbmod-
Mesa never based flights out of Atlanta.
.......
 
ba319-131
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:44 am

Dont Skywest fly Brazilias and CRJ's for UA and DL in and around CA?

When I when spotting to LAX in jan,numerous CRJ's and BRZ's were flying in UA's c/s.

111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
SegmentKing
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 6:25 am

just not in the *same* market...
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
tu154m
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 6:55 am

1)Air Wisc-UA and AirTran in ATL
2)AA Eage-AA and DL in LAX
3)SkyWest-DL and UA in LAX
I'm sure there are more examples!
S
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
ouboy79
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 7:17 am

How about...Chautauqua:

Colubmus - HP Express, Delta Connection & US Airways Express.
Louisville - American Connection, Delta Connction & US Airways Express.
 
UA744Flagship
Topic Author
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:32 am

My question was a little more specific....

-- HUB carriers. I believe this is the first time fierce competitors at an airport have a regional partner in common.
no wire hangers!
 
srbmod
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:00 am

Jmc1975,
I hate to break it to you:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Axel Juengerich

 
FATFlyer
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:45 am

The original JetExpress agreement as filed with the SEC forbid Mesa operating for UA in Frontier's markets. Did Frontier change their mind and give away something by agreeing to allow Mesa to operate for another airline out of DEN? Or is this still in effect? We'll have to see what routes they end up with.

The old Agreement's relevant paragraph:
25.5 Except for codeshare agreements with America West Airlines, Inc., USAirways, Inc. and Midwest Express Airlines, Inc., Mesa agrees not to enter into another codeshare agreement with a carrier hubbed in Denver for markets served by Frontier that originate or end in Denver, Colorado.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:56 am

Skywest used to operate both DLConnection and UAX at LAX. Once DL pulled back in LA Skywest dropped all the DL flights.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
ual777contrail
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 10:08 am

ualflag,
don't forget the BAE-146'S, so not an RJ fleet entirely.
do they plan to get rid of those?
ual 777 contrail
 
AerMickey
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest

Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:02 am

It will be a long time before Air Wisconsin will ever get rid of the BAE-146. They just added SFO-ASE this year due to the service that they can gain from the 146. It is a great airplane to use in a mountain region. As well, AWAC worked out an excellent deal with the company of whom they lease these planes from.

Mickey
 
User avatar
Crosswind
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:15 am

UA777contrail
The BAE146 is an RJ!!!  Smile
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 2869
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:38 am

The funny one:


St. George, Utah: served by two airlines
SGU is also the company headquarters for Skywest.

Skywest and Skywest
dba United Express to LAX
dba Delta Connection to SLC, CDC

TWA902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
ti717
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:15 am

Mesa has flown for UAL in the past out of Denver and ended service in the late 90's over what was called contract problems. I think this is a good Plus for UAL they needed to get the regional house in order and catch up with DAL and CO.

TI 717
Fly Texas International
Sir, don't you think we should turn on the runway lights?" "No, that's just what there expecting us to do!"
 
SegmentKing
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Sat Mar 01, 2003 5:24 am

Plus the 146 airframe is the only commuter jet that can fly into ASE...
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azjubilee
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Sat Mar 01, 2003 7:08 am

Mesa is unhappy with the agreement with Frontier in DEN Look for that service to end soon... the FAA inspector for Big Sky - now a Mesaba HOldings company - said that Big Sky has bid for the new agreement with Frontier.

It is almost VERY hard to consider the Bae146/Avro an RJ. Since the term "Regional Jet" is quite a relative term... it's all in what kool aid you drink and who you believe.


AZJ
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Sat Mar 01, 2003 8:33 am

Long time, no see AZJ...

If BigSky was to take over the F9 contract, wouldn't they have to get something other than the Metro's, likely need some RJ's?

Is Mesa still doing flights under their own name with the B1900's out of ABQ?
 
ual777contrail
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Mon Mar 03, 2003 6:16 am

Thanks crosswind, I was totally thinking of the CRJ'S(50 seaters)
my fault.


ual 777 contrail
 
ti717
Posts: 220
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 1:34 am

Yes, MESA does do EAS out of ABQ under the Mesa name. From Mesa web site.

"Mesa Airlines operates as an independent division flying the Beechcraft 1900D aircraft to 10 cities in Colorado and New Mexico out of the Albuquerque, New Mexico hub.

Cities served by Mesa Airlines' turbo-prop equipment: Colorado - Colorado Springs; New Mexico - Alamogordo, Albuquerque, Carlsbad, Farmington, Gallup, Hobbs, Roswell, Silver City; Texas - Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW Airport).

TI717
Fly Texas International
Sir, don't you think we should turn on the runway lights?" "No, that's just what there expecting us to do!"
 
JC5280
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:54 am

This is simply a way for UA to renogotiate the contracts with DH, OO, and ZW. The two latter ones are the most expensive and there needs to be leverage to get them to bring their costs down, or face getting booted out of the UA colors. If you looked at the restructuring document that was leaked on the internet, you will see that this writing is on the walls.

By the way, don;t you think a LCC will negate the need for UAX in most markets?
 
azjubilee
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 6:36 am

PSU - According to Big Sky's POI - there won't be an RJ on that property for at LEAST 2 years. Snapping up saabs or dashes or even 328 turboprops wouldn't be hard for Big Sky to do via the cash that Mesaba Holdings has and the availability of them on the market. Big Sky has a long way to go before they can progress into becomming a jet operator.



AZJ
 
UA744Flagship
Topic Author
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RE: Mesa Now United Express - Conflict Of Interest?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 8:30 am

JC5280--

The LCC will negate the need for Express on many current markets, which is simply because many Express RJs have been used to replace mainline on routes that will support a mainline jet, but not mainline fares.

United has decided it is better to lose a lot less money, or even make a little (by downgrading capacity to increase the intersection of demand at a higher price), on these routes... routes like LAX-PHX (an ex-shuttle route) or ORD-MCI.

With the LCC, Express RJs will finally be deployed to *NEW* markets, which is what they were originally intended for. RJs are for expanding the network, just as DL has used them out of CVG, and turned a podunk hub into something quite impressive. As many have reported, Express RJs will be found on many new routes, including a significant amount DEN-Southeast USA.
no wire hangers!