MCOtoATL
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Joined: Sat Sep 25, 1999 12:01 pm

A Double-whammy For Boeing?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 2:23 pm

In reading about the talks between Airtran and Boeing about a potential 717-300, I was thinking about what Airtran will purchase for its new west-coast routes. While we hear about talks with Boeing, it seems that the downturn in the US economy has hurt Boeing in two ways. First, carriers are deferring deliveries and are postponing future orders. Secondly, carriers that are doing well, such as Airtran, need not buy new planes when they can pick up some fairly new planes that other airlines have parked. Granted, this could affect Airbus too, but I was thinking specifically about Airtran. Why order new planes, when you can, for a song, get some used ones?
 
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clickhappy
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RE: A Double-whammy For Boeing?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 2:25 pm

well, where are there large numbers of the type(s) of planes AirTran could use, stored?
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: A Double-whammy For Boeing?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 2:34 pm

Where have all the airplanes gone?
Not to graveyards every one.
(courtesy Peter, Paul and Mary)

Stored at Mojave, Marana and Victorville mostly. Lots of MD-80s available
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
LV
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RE: A Double-whammy For Boeing?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 10:12 pm

Air Tran can get planes out of the desert for a "Song", not sure you intended that pun but funny none the less
 
lgbguy
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RE: A Double-whammy For Boeing?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 11:03 pm

AirTran is only making money because it is buying new airplanes and parking the old.

AirTran did pick up the used TWA/AA 717s (23) in all, two of which are already in service with the airline.

The outlook for the 717-300 is very positive, contrary to what others on this forum would like you to believe. As stated on another thread on this site, an announcement will be made later this year on the fate of the -300 program.

lgbguy
 
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Double-Whammy For Boeing

Tue Mar 04, 2003 11:11 pm

AirTran did pick up the used TWA/AA 717s (23) in all, two of which are already in service with the airline.

Those 2 are currently N919AT, and N986AT. (Ship 792, and 797). I'm sure they're are more.

BTW -- If Flyer732 reads this post, I would like him to know that the aircraft I flew on back to GPT (N986AT) that had gone from LGA-MIA-ATL for maintenance had a burnt-out logo light when I boarded  Big grin I just found it kind of funny.
Puhdiddle
 
srbmod
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RE: A Double-whammy For Boeing?

Wed Mar 05, 2003 2:58 am

Really, the potential for more in production narrow a/c types (737NGs, A319/320s) to be headed to the desert (especially if United starts to shed a/c like a snake does its' skin), the value for such a/c will diminish, and the market price will drop (just as the MD-80 market price is beginning to do), which spells bad news for a/c manufacturers and leasing companies.
 
LMP737
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RE: A Double-whammy For Boeing?

Wed Mar 05, 2003 4:10 am

Airtran is moving torwards an all 717 fleet. Picking up "used" 717's from the desert really is not an option since there are none. Remember, Airtran picked up all the "used" TWA 717's. They could pick up used MD-80's and 737's but that would defeat the purpose of having one type of aircraft in your fleet. Don't forget, the MD-80 and 717 have different type ratings. Then there's the fact that they have different engines, ACM's, avionics and APU.

If it only were as simple as parking your old airplanes and getting new ones. One cannot attribute their success to only having newer planes than everybody else.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
jbmitt
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RE: A Double-whammy For Boeing?

Wed Mar 05, 2003 4:34 am

I´ve wondered about this for a while...but with all of the 717´s that Airtran keeps getting, some from Boeing, ex TWA, leasors etc, etc... are they all configured the same, same engines, cockpit layout?

Thanks

Jason
 
LMP737
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RE: A Double-whammy For Boeing?

Wed Mar 05, 2003 5:10 am

Jbmitt:

Yes, the 717's will still be configured the same along with having the same engines. There might be minor differences but nothing major.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
srbmod
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RE: A Double-whammy For Boeing?

Wed Mar 05, 2003 8:37 am

Actually, the 717s AirTran is leasing from Pembroke have a different galley layout than the one's AirTran gets straight from LGB, and the TWA birds have a different galley layout as well, but I have heard Boeing is modifying them to AirTran's layout.
 
elwood64151
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RE: A Double-whammy For Boeing?

Wed Mar 05, 2003 3:13 pm

All the 717s are being modified--slowly--to AirTran standards, with one exception: The TWA birds are keeping their airstairs, though they will be deactivated.

Also, parking any aircraft, even a 30-year-old DC-9-32, shows a depreciation cost on the company's balance sheet. So parking birds actually leads to a loss on the Profit/Loss sheet (aka Income Statement). That is reflected in a decrease in owner's equity on the Balance Sheet and statement of Owner's Equity. The savings in fuel maintenance does help, but parking birds does not mean profits. Look at AA, DL, US, and UA!!!

Also, barring an HGW package on 712/713 variants, don't expect AirTran to stick with a single fleet type. AirTran will be announcing a long-range aircraft this summer. Whether that's a HGW/LR/ER 712/713 or a completely different aircraft altogether will depend on Boeing's and Airbus' marketing and product development teams.

I believe AirTran will go for either a 752 or the 738, ordering another 50-75 717s, half of them HGW/LR/ER, almost all 713s if they can get them, and 25-50 of the other type, to be delivered over then next six to eight yearrs. But then, I'm not part of AirTran anymore and I don't get the rumors coming down like some...

Glad to see LAX/LAS. Pretty soon PHX, SFO, SEA and SAN, I think.

Cheers!
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.

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